Remember the brouhaha about new merchant codes for firearms purchases?

[old lady new shooter]

So now Kirsten Gillibrand together with the bank who first proposed this has requested the DOJ and Treasury to "make rules" for using these codes. Naturally claiming this will not affect average gun buyers or hunters but rather will only be used to find "random and large" purchases. (As defined by whom?) Bottom line, another great example of using private industry to accomplish something prohibited to the government.

Braden at Langley Outdoor has the full story:

 

[jar]

Not sure what the problem or issue is with any of that?

 

[Gun4Fun90]

Personally I am against these new codes all together. We have seen financial institutions target all kinds of people for all kinds of ideological reasons in recent history. I don’t necessarily feel a great deal of comfort in visa and my bank tracking when I am shopping at a gun store.

now I am not naive and I understand they and others already have tons of info on me and my habits but still don’t have to like it or want to give them more info.

heck even my neighbors only 1 knows I own firearms. It’s really no one’s business. If I want to share I will.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Not sure what the problem or issue is with any of that?

It's gonna be a back-door registry.

 

[trackskippy]

Not sure what the problem or issue is with any of that?

Seriously?

Change guns for beer or smokes. How about high performance diesel engine accessories? See where this is going?

It's a back door to circumvent your rights, imagined or otherwise, and hopefully, it goes nowhere.

Just out of curiosity, how many boxes of ammo should you be able to buy before you're reported? And what constitutes a "box"?

How many guns can you buy a couple day or week?

I'm truly starting to believe the movie Idiocracy, is prophetic, and we have arrived.

 

[jar]

I do not see any connection between the requirements listed and anything you mentioned.

 

[Mosin77]

Is it any business of my credit card company whether I am buying guns, ammunition, meat, groceries, sugary drinks, or potting soil?

No.

The credit card company is to provide me a service of more convenient access to money in return for collecting processing fees and finance fees. It is not to be a spy for big brother. It is no business of the government whether I, as a law abiding citizen (supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in this country) buy firearms related items daily, or a large amount at one point, or anything else.

Pretty soon some bright star will suggest that it’s a great way to compile a master list of all those who actively participate in firearms culture, and because it’s done by private enterprise it’s not technically an illegal “gun registry,” just the list they’ve been secretly wishing for for decades.

And pretty soon after that, they’ll start using the same principle to track who is buying tobacco, maryjane (legal in many states but illegal on a federal level, remember) and any other activities that some moralizing bureaucrat may not personally approve of.

And the next step after that will be propaganda. Individual stores already target you with ads based on your cc purchase history. How would you like Visa and the govt. to start spamming you with anti firearms literature, or maybe brochures for motor racing, to try to redirect your mind into an activity that Big Brother seems “healthier” for society? It’s not a stretch at all. It’s already routinely done by private corporations for their clientele already.

Or, the credit card companies could simply decide one day that they don’t want “blood on their hands,” and change their terms of use so their product (your visa) can’t be used at places like gun stores. PayPal already does this, why not the legacy CC companies?

 

[theotherwaldo]

This will matter a whole lot more when they switch to an all-digital currency, as the government is planning to do.
-That's why the control-meisters are pushing these codes now, when their agenda isn't as blatantly obvious.
They can always refine and focus the codes later... .

 

[Jim Watson]

Showing up in the Fedup collection of data on recipients of shooting related products.
A guy on another board was so irate that the Fedup driver wanted to scan the BACK of his drivers license for three magazines that he refused shipment. Another similar case, the vendor told the customer that they would reship his clips by alternate means. Mail?

 

[SSN Vet]

They are intentionally laying the foundation to spy on what you purchase and to leverage financial institutions to deny you the means to pay for firearms.

They're already leveraging the banks to not loan to businesses that sell guns, and shipping companies to not allow shipping guns.

The Federal government is already starting to implement digital currency. For now it's only being used for bank to bank type transactions, but the infrastructure is being built out for future expansion. Once that is fully implemented they'll push to get rid of cash and have complete control over every aspect of the economy and what you can and can't buy.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

This will matter a whole lot more when they switch to an all-digital currency, as the government is planning to do.
-That's why the control-meisters are pushing these codes now, when their agenda isn't as blatantly obvious.
They can always refine and focus the codes later... .

They are working on just how much they can, and will, "meddle"...

 

[theotherwaldo]

They are working on just how much they can, and will, "meddle"...

That's also part of the reason that they will need all of those new IRS agents,,, ,

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I do not see any connection between the requirements listed and anything you mentioned.

The problem is that the GOVERNMENT is seeking to mandate codification of ways to track the purchase/ownership of firearms and firearms related items.

The GOVERNMENT is not allowed to do this itself (let's not discuss whether this is or is not a reality)...so a workaround is being sought.

Information is power...and with an entity like GOVERNMENT, which by its very definition is precisely about the gathering and exercising power over people, this is a topic which should be of great concern.

This is being pursued today because people today are becoming ever more complacent about the value of all the little bits of information that are constantly being tracked, retained, bought, sold, and used.

The nature of firearms ownership in the country is intrinsically linked to the Second Amendment and the historical purpose behind the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment was not so heavily pushed to be a part of the Bill of Rights so people could hunt, target shoot, or simply collect firearms. And the government, as an entity, is quite aware of this.

The concern with government isn't the benevolent aspects. It's the fact that governments in general ALWAYS seek to increase their power over the people and ALWAYS gravitate towards tyranny over the long term.

And even if the government, as a whole, is not tyrannical, there are ALWAYS those within the government who ARE. To be able to defend oneself from government sanctioned individuals is every bit as important as to be able to defend oneself from the government as a whole.

This isn't a "nutcase" view of events...it's a factual acknowledgement of history, including the history of our own nation from the federal down to the local level. There are any number of historical examples which can be cited to illustrate how deadly government, and those within the government, can be.

 

[theotherwaldo]

The problem is that the GOVERNMENT is seeking to mandate codification of ways to track the purchase/ownership of firearms and firearms related items.

Actually, the government is seeking to mandate codification of ways to track the purchase/ownership of anything and everything.
Firearms are just one of the many things that are concerning to the powers-that-be.
They seem envious of China's 'Social Credit Score' system... .

 

[dogtown tom]

It's gonna be a back-door registry.

Horsehockey.

 

[jar]

So when they assign product numbers to orange juice it is a nefarious plot to register orange juice users?

I'm sorry but I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the proposal to identify and collect information about any product.

 

[jstert]

So when they assign product numbers to orange juice it is a nefarious plot to register orange juice users?

I'm sorry but I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the proposal to identify and collect information about any product.

the information being collected and tracked is as much about you, the purchaser, not the product alone, and without your informed consent to the collection, disposition and ultimate use of such information. if a purchaser of anything wishes to voluntarily advertise his/her purchase, feel free. many folks prefer to control their personal information.

using cooperative private entities to collect information in a manner that would never sail through congress in a plain language up/down vote is a red flag to some. the revent revelations how the fbi apparently colluded with twitter to shape opinions to a certain end are instructive here.

finally i ask, as a responsible, law-abiding american citizen, how am i made better-off, not worse-off, or even unchanged? personally, if i can’t see an improvement for myself then i need an honest answer to who is actually is better-off, because someone always benefits.

 

[jar]

the information being collected and tracked is as much about you, the purchaser, not the product alone, and without your informed consent to the collection, disposition and ultimate use of such information. if a purchaser of anything wishes to voluntarily advertise his/her purchase, feel free. many folks prefer to control their personal information.

using cooperative private entities to collect information in a manner that would never sail through congress in a plain language up/down vote is a red flag to some. the revent revelations how the fbi apparently colluded with twitter to shape opinions to a certain end are instructive here.

finally i ask, as a responsible, law-abiding american citizen, how am i made better-off, not worse-off, or even unchanged? personally, if i can’t see an improvement for myself then i need an honest answer to who is actually is better-off, because someone always benefits.

I imagine many people might see that as an issue.

Personally I do not see any problems at all.

Frankly I cannot see anyway this issue is any different than orange juice.

 

[N555]

Back door registry, denial of service or just compiling names on a list that will be used for god only knows what.

Likely scenarios:
Mass shooting happens and credit card companies pressured to "do something" so they decline sales to gun shops.
Gun grabbers would love this.
Credit card companies compile sales data. Some one makes a list of gun buyers, the list gets stolen or leaked not that the how matters and now your name and where you live is published to the Internet as a "gun buyer".
Gun grabbers would really love this.
There's no way anything good comes from this.
Crazy people and criminals intent on shooting up people are just going use cash or trade other things for stolen guns or steal them for themselves.

 

[tarosean]

Back door registry, denial of service or just compiling names on a list that will be used for god only knows what

Orrr pay cash... Seriously they wont know what you bought from Cabellas or any other sporting goods store. Even a LGS, all they will know is a total, period the end...

 

[N555]

I can't get everything I'm looking for from the local gun shops.
If you needs are basic and taste is bland I guess it would work.

 

[CapnMac]

This is not really a 2A issue. Other than tangentially.

The more major issue is the presumption that federal agencies can be expanded without any limit nor effect.

Where are the accountants going to be found? Just where will the database be sited, and what infrastructure required to maintain it? What will that cost the taxpayers? Who will audit all these records?

Easily 80% of these records will be more than benign, and likely, banal. Any "large size" purchases will probably be sports teams, little league and the like. The few "gun related" will be 4H and similar organization skeet & trap purchases.

 

[tarosean]

If you needs are basic and taste is bland I guess it would work.

Wouldnt matter if you spent 1 million dollars they dont know what you bought..

Your credit card approves a total based off your limits. nothing more nothing less. Dont beleive me? Call your bank or CC comapnay and ask for itemized receipts for recent purchases.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Actually, the government is seeking to mandate codification of ways to track the purchase/ownership of anything and everything.
Firearms are just one of the many things that are concerning to the powers-that-be.
They seem envious of China's 'Social Credit Score' system... .

Indeed, this is 100% true. We're on the same page here.

It's ALL information on citizens, and history has proven that governments aren't just doing this "out of the goodness of their hearts".

It is illegal, for example, for certain government agencies to collect information on citizens in certain ways. There are processes involved which are required to be followed, such as a warrant for one example.

HOWEVER...if said government agencies collect such information from FOREIGN intelligence agencies, then they have entirely circumvented the laws which govern their direct actions within our own country.

This is analogous to generating requirements for commercial entities (such as credit card companies) to gather and maintain such data, which can then be perused by the government. Or, perhaps, not "perused", but "maintained in a convenient government data base of their own which, of course, they would ONLY access by legitimate warrant", wink-wink.


If gathering such information were NOT a valuable resource, as some people seem to think, then why does the Uta Data Center exist? Why does the PATRIOT ACT, with all that it allows the government to do, exist?

The plain fact of the matter is that the people within the government who are pushing to have credit card companies track this information are doing so with acknowledged, clear intentions to gather EXACTLY the information we're talking about here.

 

[Slamfire]

Gotta love Surveillance Capitalism. They know everything about you. Heck, go to Walmart.com or Amazon and see everything you have purchased. Both Corporations show you what you purchased, when you purchased.

Buy some cigarettes at the 7-11 and they are taking pictures of your face at the counter and running facial recognition software in the back ground.

Just gotta love it when Surveillance Capitalism and Government get together to make you a better person.

You better love it. You better love it a lot.