Lightsped
Member
So what is the order as far as quality and features go regarding the Remington 870 lineup of shotguns? I keep hearing terms like "Express", "Police", "Wingmaster", "Express Magnum", etc.... What are the differences in all of these?
Remington Lineup?
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Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Express and Express Magnum are interchangeable.
Wingmaster is the top standard grade, better finish.
Police have some parts beefed up, though working life of ANY 870 is best recked in generations.
All 870s are good to great.
HTH....
Wingmaster is the top standard grade, better finish.
Police have some parts beefed up, though working life of ANY 870 is best recked in generations.
All 870s are good to great.
HTH....
Lightsped
Member
So there is no difference in an Express and Express Magnum? If so, why the name variation?
Landlocked Pirate
Member
Maybe you're referring to the "Express Super Magnum", which handles 3 1/2" shells.
md7
Member
Winmasters have walnut furniture and blued barrels. They are top notch and have really smooth actions out of the box.
The Police is basically a wingmaster with either synthetic or walnut furniture and they are parkerized I believe. They are top of the line defense guns.
The Express guns function the same as the police and wingmaster, but feature synthetic or laminate stocks, a rough bead blasted blue finish, and are not as slick out the box as the Police or Wingmaster versions.
I think the Wingmaster and Police models have heavier magazine springs than the Express, metal trigger guards, and have more attention to parts and detail.
The Express Super Mag is the same as the Express but is capable of firing 3.5 shells. The Express fires 2.75 and 3 inch shells.
Some 870's are great and some are really good like Dave McCracken said. I think all will outlast the original owner.
The Police is basically a wingmaster with either synthetic or walnut furniture and they are parkerized I believe. They are top of the line defense guns.
The Express guns function the same as the police and wingmaster, but feature synthetic or laminate stocks, a rough bead blasted blue finish, and are not as slick out the box as the Police or Wingmaster versions.
I think the Wingmaster and Police models have heavier magazine springs than the Express, metal trigger guards, and have more attention to parts and detail.
The Express Super Mag is the same as the Express but is capable of firing 3.5 shells. The Express fires 2.75 and 3 inch shells.
Some 870's are great and some are really good like Dave McCracken said. I think all will outlast the original owner.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Lightsped,
Any 12 gauge 870 with a serial number ending in M is a magnum receiver gun. It can fire 3" magnum shells IF it also has a barrel with a 3" chamber. The early Express guns were labeled just Express, later it was changed to Express Magnum. The only difference in the older Express guns and Wingmasters are 1) the finish, a bead blasted blue on the Express vs. a polished blue on the Wingmaster; and 2) the furniture, which is walnut with Remington's famous 'bowling pin' finish on the Wingmaster, but in the Expresses, either synthetic, hardwood, or (in the really old Express guns) dull finished low grade walnut.
Later on in newer Express guns, MIM (cast) parts crept in in a couple of places (like the extractor), then the dimples in the magazine tube came along in the design changes that did away with the spring loaded magazine cap retainer in the barrel ring and the spring steel magazine spring retainer. All that was replaced by a plastic plug in the end of the magazine (held in place by the dimples) that served to both retain the magazine spring and the magazine cap.
And eventually along came the plastic trigger plate, then the detestable (self-) locking safety button.
That's how you tell old Expresses from newer ones. Older ones are a better buy if you are shopping for used 870s IMHO, as long as they have not been mangled by amateur gunbutchers at a kitchen table somewhere.
You will see a few 870 SP guns, the Special Purpose guns. I don't know which line these come off of, whether they are Express or Wingmaster. The last SP gun I saw had a plastic trigger plate but it was on the used rack and I don't know if it had been swapped out with another gun.
Police guns are now made on a separate assembly line for law enforcement. They are the Cadillac of 870s, if you are buying new. There are some differences over Wingmaster/Express guns- mostly stronger springs and beefed up shell stops in the 870P. Used, they often turn up carried a lot but shot not so much. If you can get beyond cosmetic wear they can be bargains- but not as often as they used to be. A lot more agencies are having their 870s refurbed these days rather than trading them in.
As a side note, you might encounter older Police and Riot guns just marked Wingmaster on the receiver. Tipoffs: an 18" CYL bead sighted barrel gun with a 'corncob' or short forearm and a plain stock is a Police gun of the old school (most likely 2 3/4" only), a 20" barrel set up th same way marks a Riot gun of the old school.
There are still some 870 Special Field guns out there- these are 21" VR barreled, straight or English-stocked 870s. Nice guns for upland use, but the barrels WILL NOT interchange with other 870s- the barrel ring is in a different place on the SF barrel.
There are some competition grade 870s out there, marked by features appreciated by clay busters. If you see 870TB or 870TC, you've found one of these.
And lastly there is the 870 Competition, a single shot trap gun set up with a gas recoil reducing system where the magzine normally lives. You won't find lots of those, only about 5000 were manufactured IIRC. That's a pretty small slice of the 10 million or so 870s out there...
I think I got 'em all, save perhaps for the military marked guns- don't know of any ordnance marked 870s in private hands but there might be a few. Oh, there's all the Johnny come lately green TACTICAL!!!!! guns, and other stuff like that. But the list above covers the major varieties.
hth,
Any 12 gauge 870 with a serial number ending in M is a magnum receiver gun. It can fire 3" magnum shells IF it also has a barrel with a 3" chamber. The early Express guns were labeled just Express, later it was changed to Express Magnum. The only difference in the older Express guns and Wingmasters are 1) the finish, a bead blasted blue on the Express vs. a polished blue on the Wingmaster; and 2) the furniture, which is walnut with Remington's famous 'bowling pin' finish on the Wingmaster, but in the Expresses, either synthetic, hardwood, or (in the really old Express guns) dull finished low grade walnut.
Later on in newer Express guns, MIM (cast) parts crept in in a couple of places (like the extractor), then the dimples in the magazine tube came along in the design changes that did away with the spring loaded magazine cap retainer in the barrel ring and the spring steel magazine spring retainer. All that was replaced by a plastic plug in the end of the magazine (held in place by the dimples) that served to both retain the magazine spring and the magazine cap.
And eventually along came the plastic trigger plate, then the detestable (self-) locking safety button.
That's how you tell old Expresses from newer ones. Older ones are a better buy if you are shopping for used 870s IMHO, as long as they have not been mangled by amateur gunbutchers at a kitchen table somewhere.
You will see a few 870 SP guns, the Special Purpose guns. I don't know which line these come off of, whether they are Express or Wingmaster. The last SP gun I saw had a plastic trigger plate but it was on the used rack and I don't know if it had been swapped out with another gun.
Police guns are now made on a separate assembly line for law enforcement. They are the Cadillac of 870s, if you are buying new. There are some differences over Wingmaster/Express guns- mostly stronger springs and beefed up shell stops in the 870P. Used, they often turn up carried a lot but shot not so much. If you can get beyond cosmetic wear they can be bargains- but not as often as they used to be. A lot more agencies are having their 870s refurbed these days rather than trading them in.
As a side note, you might encounter older Police and Riot guns just marked Wingmaster on the receiver. Tipoffs: an 18" CYL bead sighted barrel gun with a 'corncob' or short forearm and a plain stock is a Police gun of the old school (most likely 2 3/4" only), a 20" barrel set up th same way marks a Riot gun of the old school.
There are still some 870 Special Field guns out there- these are 21" VR barreled, straight or English-stocked 870s. Nice guns for upland use, but the barrels WILL NOT interchange with other 870s- the barrel ring is in a different place on the SF barrel.
There are some competition grade 870s out there, marked by features appreciated by clay busters. If you see 870TB or 870TC, you've found one of these.
And lastly there is the 870 Competition, a single shot trap gun set up with a gas recoil reducing system where the magzine normally lives. You won't find lots of those, only about 5000 were manufactured IIRC. That's a pretty small slice of the 10 million or so 870s out there...
I think I got 'em all, save perhaps for the military marked guns- don't know of any ordnance marked 870s in private hands but there might be a few. Oh, there's all the Johnny come lately green TACTICAL!!!!! guns, and other stuff like that. But the list above covers the major varieties.
hth,
Lightsped
Member
Lee, thanks for the awesome and very detailed writeup. There is some good info in that post!
md7
Member
lee,
just recently i bought a NIB 870 Express HD. it came with the factory magazine extension so i think the magazine dimples are not on it, and it does not have the j lock on the safety. it does have a plastic trigger guard. did i get an older modeled express that was left over? or is this model a new one that for some reason does not have the j lock? which, by the way, i don't prefer the j locks. It has "Remington 870" on the left side of the reciever. Don't know if the markings are different on older or new ones.
just recently i bought a NIB 870 Express HD. it came with the factory magazine extension so i think the magazine dimples are not on it, and it does not have the j lock on the safety. it does have a plastic trigger guard. did i get an older modeled express that was left over? or is this model a new one that for some reason does not have the j lock? which, by the way, i don't prefer the j locks. It has "Remington 870" on the left side of the reciever. Don't know if the markings are different on older or new ones.
farscott
Member
I cannot speak for all of the SP 870 especially as there are so many variants. I can speak to the one I own. It is an older 870 SP with a twenty-six inch vent rib barrel with the Rem Choke system. It is a Wingmaster with a parkerized finish and an oiled walnut stock with no checkering. Mine came with the metal trigger plate and an action as smooth as any Wingmaster I have ever handled. The stocks are finished like the Police walnut furniture.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
md7,
The Locking Lawyerproof Safety has thankfully gone away now. And the 18" (or 18.5" now, IIRC) Express guns with the factory magazine extensions don't have the dimples- otherwise the magazine extension wouldn't work. I'd say you got a new one. If the two little dimples are on the left side of the triger guard at the safety (used to be painted one red, one white) that's a tipoff it's new.
lpl/nc
The Locking Lawyerproof Safety has thankfully gone away now. And the 18" (or 18.5" now, IIRC) Express guns with the factory magazine extensions don't have the dimples- otherwise the magazine extension wouldn't work. I'd say you got a new one. If the two little dimples are on the left side of the triger guard at the safety (used to be painted one red, one white) that's a tipoff it's new.
lpl/nc
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