Remington Pocket Conversions

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I should have known better than to post about anything else but NAA
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Hoof Hearted, my apologies for my contribution to the thread-drift, but I thought my info would be helpful to some folks. :eek:

Back to your very nice 1863s, the reason I clicked on the thread in the first place is that I've always sort of lusted after one of these. Cabela's has the steel-framed Pietta version on sale for $199 right now and with the NRA free-shipping sale coming up this weekend, well, I'm sorely tempted. One thing that I'd always wondered about was doing some sort of a conversion to a centerfire round (tho the ability to use inexpensive buck shot for plinking makes the gun kind of attractive regardless), and I've been looking at this sort of thing in Adler's book. Your guns are really nice.

Lusting after the Remington Pocket revolvers was what got me to buy a Bearcat - which I eventually sent to Hamilton Bowen and had tuned up and turned into a .22 Mag. Nice little size for a gun. :) Thanks for the pix.
 
Erich

Thanks for the compliment!
And of course for the "sliding" of this thread back to topic.

The new steel framed Pietta's are a lot nicer than the older pistols. Walt Kirst had a lot to do with that. It was Walt's pushing that caused Pietta to re-engineer the Pocket to be closer to an original with the intent of selling a conversion for it. Well we have (Jay and I) tried to get this conversion (first run) to function as chambered in 32 S&W and although it indexes and cycles well the chosen cartridge casues some very peculiar things to happen upon firing. We built this 22 conversion out of frustration..........

It could work as a handloading only proposition with a stouter load and that could be in the works for the future.
 
May I take that as a recommendation that I buy while the 1863 is on sale @ Cabela's? (I've never seen them on sale for this little - $199 down from $299.) I'd heard about issues with the .32 S&W conversions. :(
 
That's good to hear . . . I'm torn six ways between five different guns (the 1863 is the favorite contender) and getting nothing at all.

Since you dream conversions, may I reveal a deep dark secret? I'd love to find some way to convert it to a .32 ACP/7.62 Browning semi-rimmed . . . I love that round.
 
Erich said:
That's good to hear . . . I'm torn six ways between five different guns (the 1863 is the favorite contender) and getting nothing at all.

Since you dream conversions, may I reveal a deep dark secret? I'd love to find some way to convert it to a .32 ACP/7.62 Browning semi-rimmed . . . I love that round.
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Erich

Without getting out the Barnes book to look at dimensions, I can tell you that it's not unreasonable to chamber a cylinder for that round. But know that the Italian 31 C&B pistols tend to have bores on the large side of 32's and accruacy may be a problem.

Send me a Pm reminding me to look into this if you are truly interested.

HH
 
BHP FAN said:
I wonder of one could do a ''moon clip'' conversion?
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There wouldn't be a need for a moon clip with a single action revolver.
Moon clips are only needed for extracting rimless type cases with double action revolvers and their extractors.
Single action revolvers generally only extract cases one at time by pushing each one out the back of the chamber from the front by using an ejector rod or dowel of some sort.
Therefore a moon clip isn't needed for ejecting single cases of any kind AFAIK. :)
 
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Hoof Hearted I am curious as to why the conversion cylinder in 32 S&W did not work in the Remington pocket pistol? Remington sold thousands of them in the day and if they did not work I am sure the word would have got out. I have had Dennis Addler's book on cartridge conversions for years and have always wanted to get the .31 cal Remington pocket pistol and get a conversion cylinder for it. When I first saw the conversion cylinder was for sale I almost was ready to buy the cylinder before I bought the gun. When it was withdrawn from the market I was disappointed. I don't want to buy the gun without a conversion cylinder for it. A few years ago I had the opportunity to buy an older custom conversion gun online and foolishly passed hearing that a conversion cylinder would be offered shortly. I won't make that mistake again if I had the chance. Anyway I am still curious as to the problems of the Kirst conversion cylinder for the Pocket Remington? Thanks.
 
arcticap said:
There wouldn't be a need for a moon clip with a single action revolver.
Moon clips are only needed for extracting rimless type cases with double action revolvers and their extractors.
Single action revolvers generally only extract cases one at time by pushing each one out the back of the chamber from the front by using an ejector rod or dowel of some sort.
Therefore a moon clip isn't needed for ejecting single cases of any kind AFAIK. :)
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Well BHP fan's wondering shouldn't be so easily dismissed:neener:

The pocket style conversions use a removable back plate therefore they do not singly eject out a port in the back and could be reloaded easier in this manner. Of course they would have to be chambered for a rimless cartridge like Erich had asked earlier in the thread.

Now I'm not saying this would work. The size, space and desigh limitations could hinder the fitment of a moon clip and of course the bullet needs to match the bore size.........but pondering like BHP FAN did is what has brought about the numerous advances in firearms design and Thank God or we'd be throwing rocks:banghead:
 
Arcticap, the moon clip wouldn't be for extraction, as you'd most likely be dismounting the cylinder for loading/unloading, anyway, but since the .32 acp doesn't have a rim to headspace on [I know, use .32 S&W ,but another poster was asking about acp] the moon clip would keep the auto cartrige from slipping into the cylinder's chamber when struck by the firing pin.
 
Gaucho Gringo said:
Hoof Hearted I am curious as to why the conversion cylinder in 32 S&W did not work in the Remington pocket pistol? Remington sold thousands of them in the day and if they did not work I am sure the word would have got out. I have had Dennis Addler's book on cartridge conversions for years and have always wanted to get the .31 cal Remington pocket pistol and get a conversion cylinder for it. When I first saw the conversion cylinder was for sale I almost was ready to buy the cylinder before I bought the gun. When it was withdrawn from the market I was disappointed. I don't want to buy the gun without a conversion cylinder for it. A few years ago I had the opportunity to buy an older custom conversion gun online and foolishly passed hearing that a conversion cylinder would be offered shortly. I won't make that mistake again if I had the chance. Anyway I am still curious as to the problems of the Kirst conversion cylinder for the Pocket Remington? Thanks.
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This is a complicated dilemna but the easiest way to explain it is the chosen cartridge, 32S&W, created a number of complications that couldn't be overcome. If it is revisted it will take a more powerful cartridge. The originals were in 32 rimfire and it and the 32 Colt share a heel base bullet and create more pressure. They also fill the bore. Kirst does have some cylinders in 32 S&W and through handloading (with a full case of BP) you might have some luck. Also there are a VERY FEW 22 cylinders. PM me if you want to play with a real project.
 
Thanks, hoof Hearted, that was pretty much what I was getting at, and that star shaped backing plate was exactly what made me think of it!
 
BHP Fan said:
but since the .32 acp doesn't have a rim to headspace on [I know, use .32 S&W ,but another poster was asking about acp] the moon clip would keep the auto cartrige from slipping into the cylinder's chamber when struck by the firing pin.
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MCA makes a .32acp chamber adaptor insert for center fire rifles that doesn't have any such problem.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

MCA said:
32 ACP in:
30-30 WCF
308 Winchester
30-06 Springfield
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The Ruger Blackhawk Convertible revolvers are chambered for the 9mm and .45 ACP rimless cartridges without the need for moon clips.
Ruger also makes the Blackhawk in .30 Carbine without moon clips.
 
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Originally Posted by BHP Fan
but since the .32 ACP doesn't have a rim to headspace on [I know, use .32 S&W ,but another poster was asking about ACP] the moon clip would keep the auto cartridge from slipping into the cylinder's chamber when struck by the firing pin.
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Just to keep things straight, the .32 ACP is a semi-rimmed cartridge and does have enough rim to headspace on. I have shot many in a Colt Pocket Positive that was chambered for .32 Colt/.32 S&W and all fired and extracted just fine.
 

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Lots of revolvers have been chambered for rimless cartridges as well as auto loaders. They headspace on the "mouth" of the cartridge. If the chamber is reamed right and the ammo not "taper" crimped they work fine.
 
true enough, but with a moon clip you can load all the cartridges in the time it takes to load one cartridge without the clip, and when you're done it keeps your brass together....one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the 1917.
45s.jpg
 
BHP FAN said:
but with a moon clip you can load all the cartridges in the time it takes to load one cartridge without the clip
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That's not necessarily true because it takes more time to pre-load the moon clip than it does to simply load the 5 or 6 chambers one at a time.

The Ruger 9mm double action Security Six revolver actually used 2 half moon clips which makes it that much more complicated and time consuming to reload vs. one at a time. But that's a double action with a swing out cylinder.
The moon clips can be problematic because they're flat and without a knob to grab hold of it.
And I think that the reason why they're not seen being used with single action revolvers is because loading and ejecting the brass one at a time is easier and more efficient.
I'm not saying that someone will never try it, but I think that it's doubtful that Kirst would ever design a black powder conversion cylinder that way because it can make loading and extraction more difficult and complicated than necessary.
A magazine is necessary in a 1911.
But a moon clip is not as necessary with a single action revolver unless someone is trying to copy an authentic design from the past or found it worthwhile to produce it for some other reason. But I've never heard about any.
Moon clips are extra parts that people need to go out to buy and replace or else they can't shoot their gun. :)
 
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''That's not necessarily true because it takes more time to pre-load the moon clip than it does to simply load the 5 or 6 chambers one at a time...''

you can't really count the time it takes to reload the clip as part of the reload time, as it may have been done [and usually is] months, days or even years before shooting and the reload takes place.
or, are you seriously saying you can shoot and reload an SAA faster then a shooter, with say a 1917 S&W, and full moon clips?
 
off topic thanks you

wow I just talked to amy at Naa and she said the earl is availible for 299.99 $ usd and redily accepts super companion cylinders,great day inthe mournin she said id given them a good idea,and they decided to follow thru,on behalf of cap n ball fans,I love it, and amy is a sweet lady to deal with,the 4 in barrel is gonna be great for longer range accuracy,I would use use 4f black powder for a good n fast mv,cant wait to try one,rats n snakes look out:eek:
 
now I'm just plain jealous...I have a pair of Super Companions and a spare cylinder [and I'm going to pick up another] but man that Earl is a beauty!
 
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