Request for open carry in Texas

[Spreadfire Arms]

DK Suddeth wrote:

If a 'gang banger' is not a felon (or otherwise meets the requirements for owning a firearm) he would be legal to carry the gun with a concealed license anyway. Most 'gang bangers' are either ex-felons or of otherwise disqualifying factors so carrying a gun either way would be illegal.

incorrect actually. if you have a Class A or B misdemeanor, or a conviction of Disorderly Conduct, you are not eligible for a CHL in Texas. not all gang members are convicted felons. eliminating UCW law would allow those with these Class A and B misdemeanors, or disorderly conduct convictions, to open carry a handgun, since a CHL would not be needed.

and for those gang members who are felons, they can't possess guns, but if they repeal UCW, then they can carry switchblades and clubs too.

Deavis wrote:

If they aren't breaking the law and if they aren't a felon, then why would you want to arrest them in the first place? I realize being able to arrest someone for carrying a gun illegally is useful but how does that change if they are open carrying? If you have already rolled them for something, then you check them out, and if it is illegal they go away for a long time. It would be no different than finding an illegal concealed gun on them except that you would know they have it first. Does that make sense?

its not me personally. but politicians do not want to be known for allowing gang bangers to lawfully carry guns. all it takes is one gang banger to be lawfully carrying, then committing an armed offense, to make all sponsoring politicians of the bill look bad.

being able to arrest a gang banger for being armed is a good thing if you ask most LE officers. most LE officers will prefer that the laws NOT be changed to allow gang bangers to be legally armed. most LE officers don't care if the guy is required to carry in plain view or not. they only care that the guy has a legal right to carry a firearm around and that they may exercise extremely poor judgment and use it on someone to commit a violent crime. to just allow gang members to walk around armed until they commit an offense with the gun is political suicide.

the anti gunners will say the Republicans are backing a law that "will allow all gang members to be legally armed." how does that sit with the constituents, especially when we are looking at an election in 2 years?

like i said, i am not for or against open carry. i would not write a letter encouraging it, nor would i write a letter to a politician opposing it. to tell you the truth im ambivolent about the issue. if it passes then cool. if it doesn't pass then cool as well.

what im saying is that most Republicans, who are facing an election in 2 years, will probably not touch this bill with a 10-foot pole. Bush's popularity rating is low, the Republicans are still dealing with the Ronnie Earle / Tom DeLay issue, not to mention 5 generals recommending the removal of Donald Rumsfeld, etc.

you can see the headlines stating that the Republicans want to allow legally armed gang bangers on the street. i bet you the Democrats will say that, since there is already a way for law abiding citizens to be armed already (CHL), so who else do the Republicans want to arm now?

all im saying is that i don't see any Republican politician sponsoring a repeal of UCW.

 

[Gray Peterson]

I think they were suggesting a repeal of the "intentionally fail to conceal the handgun" part. Making the the Texas CHL a License to Carry Handguns. I think that's the most we can hope for.

 

[LAK]

HonorsDaddy

The Harris County DA is quite anti-gun unfortunately. He's also on record as stating he will defy state law regarding having firearms in your vehicle while travelling and prosecute anyone he can for it. I'll be very surprised if he is re-elected.

There is a term for this; it is what is known as malicious prosecution. Not only a crime in itself, but grounds for a big lawsuit. And being arrested and held on such "grounds" would constitute false arrest and false imprisonment. Also crimes, and also grounds for a high dollar lawsuit.

The HCDA is really sticking his neck out if he has, or really intends, to do such a thing. And any peace officer within his jurisdiction who knowingly takes part is setting him or herself up for a share as well.

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[Autolycus]

I agree with Lonnie Wilson and Maxwell.

The facts are that if you make it legal for people to open carry its not going to be a huge problem like in AZ or some of the other open carry states. Basically all it does is allow people to CCW without worrying if they expose thier guns on accident.

Gangbangers are going to carry anyway whether it is in the open or not. And the truth is they will probably conceal since they might get questioned for something else like DISORDERLY CONDUCT or some other BS charge. The police can find a way to hassle you whether you like it or not. And prohibiting Texans from open carrying simply because it MIGHT be bad is just stupid. I would suggest that making a CHL a "Carries Handgun License" rather than a "Concealed Handgun License" is a good idea. The gang-bangers will still have to get the permit. And if one does it will be the same as if they had to just keep it concealed. No real difference. This way if they are carrying without a permit they will get hassled just like before.

And my favorite arguement: Everyone I know here in IL thinks that in Texas open carry is legal. I try to explain to them that it is not legal and that Texas is very restrictive as to where you may carry a firearm. Its definately better than IL but the facts remain the same.

 

[Deavis]

incorrect actually. if you have a Class A or B misdemeanor, or a conviction of Disorderly Conduct, you are not eligible for a CHL in Texas. not all gang members are convicted felons. eliminating UCW law would allow those with these Class A and B misdemeanors, or disorderly conduct convictions, to open carry a handgun, since a CHL would not be needed.

and for those gang members who are felons, they can't possess guns, but if they repeal UCW, then they can carry switchblades and clubs too.

Your first point is a good one about the misdemeanors. They could easily extend the prohibition on open carry to include the same circumstances, although this is counter to the original poster's intentions. You could easily modify UCW to reflect those changes.

i would like to see the prohibition on switchblades go though. I can carry a gun but not a self opening knife? It is sort of ironic considering that most folders open as fast as a switchblade these days.

This will still have our permit price where it is, thus deterring some criminal element. This will not change the fact that it would be against the law to carry without a license whether open or concealed.

I think you miss the point here, price doesn't deter criminal elements. If they are criminals then they won't be applying in the first place, they either don't qualify or don't plan to follow the laws... That is why they are part of the criminal element! Right?

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

I think they were suggesting a repeal of the "intentionally fail to conceal the handgun" part.

DK Suddeth wrote (in his original post that started this entire thread):

I would like to see our texas legislature repeal Texas state code § 46.02 and allow for the open carrying of a firearm for all law abiding texas citizens.

DK Suddeth called for a repeal of 46.02 Penal Code which is Unlawful Carry of a Weapon. That section specifically states:

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

Repealing the entire section makes it legal not only to open carry without a permit, but also carry an "illegal knife" or club.

 

[ball3006]

Again, I ask....

Why draw attention to yourself? If I was a gangbanger, do you know how easy it would be to go to a crowded store, etc, and lift a gun from someone's hip? I am not the biggest guy but I bet I could take a gun from 90 percent of the population out there with no difficulty. Open carry has it's place, I carry open at my camp all the time, but you have to question the reality of open carry in a crowd.........I have no problem changing the law to allow open carry but I question the reality of open carry in an urban venue.....chris3

 

[LAR-15]

Why not allow open carry in uincoporated areas and allow cities to opt out?

 

[Deavis]

Nope, won't work. State laws trumph the city in all respects. This keeps gun laws uniform throughout the State and is, generally, accepted as a good thing. People fought hard to make sure it was that way for a reason, just look at Illinois.

 

[LAR-15]

Okay but it might be your only option to carry in cougar country

 

[orangeninja]

I have mixed feelings about legalizing open carry in Texas. Perhaps if the law currently written were modified to include attempting to conceal with good faith. That away as long as the attempt to conceal is made, nobody can prosecute if the wind blows your jacket open.

 

[LAR-15]

I've lived in two states that have permitless open carry.

It's no big deal really.

The problem is the anti gun big city liberals

 

[SolaScriptura139]

You guys should move to West Virginia. We don't have to register anything, no waiting period, no licenses for anything except for Concealed Carry, which is a "Shall Issue" license (as long as you take a Pistol Safety Training Course). You don't have to inform police of the fact that you're carrying (although I would always inform the officer anyway), and as long as you have your guns (rifles or shotguns, bazookas, machine guns, etc. ) unloaded in the trunk with the ammo elsewhere, no problems.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Why draw attention to yourself?

Calling people who open carry 'attention whores' is no different than asking why would someone NEED an assault weapon. It's not about need, it's about want. If I want to open carry, that should be my right to do so.

If I was a gangbanger, do you know how easy it would be to go to a crowded store, etc, and lift a gun from someone's hip? I am not the biggest guy but I bet I could take a gun from 90 percent of the population out there with no difficulty.

How far do you think you would get when your 'victim' then pulls his BUG you did NOT see and plugs you in the back?

Open carry has it's place, I carry open at my camp all the time, but you have to question the reality of open carry in a crowd.........I have no problem changing the law to allow open carry but I question the reality of open carry in an urban venue.....chris3

No more than you would have to question the reality of concealed carry in public. The argument CAN cut both ways.

 

[Deavis]

If I was a gangbanger, do you know how easy it would be to go to a crowded store, etc, and lift a gun from someone's hip? I am not the biggest guy but I bet I could take a gun from 90 percent of the population out there with no difficulty.

Then in that case, we should see hundreds of police disarmed every day by evil gangbangers, but we don't. Why not?

Perhaps because people who open carry are much more aware of what is around them. They also don't let themselves get into a situation that would compromise their weapon. Hand over when in doubt. Many of them would choose to use retention style holsters for that very reason. To assume that someone who open carries would not protect their weapon is a bit presumptious.

I'm not going to be silly and say that everyone would protect their weapon, but are you really courageous, or stupid (depending on how you look at it), enough to make a grab attempt and find out? Most criminals are not, in my opinion, that brave under general circumstances.

 

[44Brent]

Houston Mayor supports open carry (he just doesn't know it)

The mayor of Houston has implemented a policy by which individuals with CHLs are required to wear red badges in certain public buildings. He argues that individuals with CHLs need to be publicly identified. This policy has resulted in harassment of individuals -- see http://www.packing.org/community/leo_encounters/thread/?thread=12975

The mayor is giving Texans the perfect opportunity to go to the legislature and present an argument that Texas should join the other 30+ states that have open carry. Clearly the mayor wants individuals with pistols to be visibly identified, and the red badges are completely unnecessary for individuals who are carrying openly.

The mayor is on the side of those individuals who want to expand gun owner rights with the right of open carry (he just doesn't know it). Let the big guy in Houston help you out!