research on street guns/ stolen guns.

[thorn726]

so i am forever searching for the elusive "$40 handgun" so easily availble to criminals on the street.
i was more or less interviewing some folks
first here's a scenario =

college kid hip hop gangsta wannnabe gets a .38 revolver. rich rich mommy comes to visit. kid puts gun in dumpster. gun ends up sold on street for $200, homeless felon who found it didnt want to get caught with it.

crazy , huh? apparently this is not a once in a lifetime find either, and go ahead, think i am making it up, whatever.
"ok so how fast could you get me a gun , really?"
"$250 9mm or .357, pretty fast , like right away"
"yeah, $200/250, man , as soon as you want it."

so what about the $40 gun? well maybe , but thats if you go to the worst ghettos, run the risk of getting shot buying it, and it WILL have crimes attached to it.

so at least around here, and these kids had been all over, this is really fairly common everywhere=

majority of guns on the street being used in crimes= stolen from gun stores, from IDIOTS who leave them in cars, from the garbage, or stolen form homes, etc.

i guess the moral is if we really want guns not to end up in crimes, people gotta keep them extra secure. in the area of gun safes, i see this as a good reason for guns to be in safes when not at home. im into the idea of strategic loaded arms everywhere when you are there, heh, you should se my buddy's house. loaded. everywhere.

obviuosly there is no preventing thefts from ever happening, but for example=

the fremont gun store robbery
im pretty sure if i really wanted one of those guns , i know how to get a hold of one. SEriously. im tempted to use a little hammer therapy to find out more about that actually, but putting people in prison could make my life unsafe
id have to be real careful about it.

THOSE MAROONS sorry to offend you, but i saw the news video, the front door was GLAss. come on, thats no way to secure a gun store.
some part of this falls on the gun owners to at least do everything they cna not to let theirs get stolen.

the idea that people who legally buy guns and then pass thme on t othe street- yeah , im sure it happens, but it is very very small portion of guns on the street. so far the closest thing to that is like the guy who found one in a dumpster and sold it, stuff like that.

now i have to imagine its much different far out in rural areas, but i bet its similar in cities all over. all of what ive found here is pretty much in line with what i had ever heard in NY also.

so the $40 gun is still a myth of the deep ghetto here, but the $250 one for the determined criminal- its out there, and it might be yours. keep them secure!

 

[arcticap]

Various local/state authorities have tried campaigns to buy older unwanted guns that citizens (seniors etc..) may have stored, you know buy back campaigns. They offer $50 or a gift certificate to some local merchant for every gun turned in. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But the point is, there are plenty of people with guns they don't want who are willing to actually sell them cheaply if not just throw them away. Ask a gun dealer how often a widow calls them to come and take some guns out of the house, or the bargains people find at a garage sale. Once you know how cheap some of the legal guns can be, you can imagine how cheap an illegal gun might be:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134095

 

[thorn726]

yeah i remember that thread, it was very interesting.
also there's mine about how much an idiot i am, that "little old lady?"
she called me, wanted me to haul her dead husbands guns, i declined cuz it was an extra 2 hr drive, i haul junk for a living.

point was not so much about the cheap guns, bu tthat the guns on the street- well first they arent quite so cheap as you think, not many people really want ot sell them to felons= THat the ARE readily available, sure totally-
****but really- that the majority of criminals (here) get their guns by stealing them, buying stolen*****

robbing gun stores, looking for guns in cars, houses, it is a criminal trade in itself, one that i think can be curbed if people are jsut slightly more cautious.
of course, none of those idiots who leave guns in plain sight in their car are gonna be on this site, but maybe someone who goes on long vacations will consider a gun safe for when they are away?

 

[Blackburn]

so what about the $40 gun? well maybe , but thats if you go to the worst ghettos, run the risk of getting shot buying it, and it WILL have crimes attached to it.

Dead on. I know the place where you can get clocks in that pricerange in Virginia, but you'd be an idiot or rolling DEEP to feel comfortable going in there knowing you'd get out in one piece.

 

[WT]

Living in the metropolitan NY-NJ area, my understanding is that most guns used in crime are purchased out of state and then sold here on the streets. Most come from the south, I believe VA and NC.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/6618672.htm

2 NJ police officers successfully sued a Charleston, WV gun shop for selling the gun that was used by a BG to shoot them. The 2 officers' careers have ended because of their wounds.

Another case involved an airline employee who bought guns in Louisiana and brought them back here for sale on the street.

 

[WT]

The Charlotte Observer
August 26, 2003

Study: N.C. a major source for illegal guns
Associated Press

RALEIGH, N.C. - Research by a Columbia University professor shows North Carolina is the No. 4 source in the country for guns smuggled into New York and sold on the black market.

Offenders can buy a handgun in North Carolina for $100 and sell it for $500 or more in New York. That has made the Interstate 95 corridor a pipeline for illegal gun trafficking.

"North Carolina is among the biggest source states for firearms not only for New York, but probably for New Jersey as well," said Dr. Howard Andrews, a biostatistics professor at the university's School of Public Health.

His analysis shows that a large percentage of crimes involving guns in New York are committed with firearms illegally bought in the Southeast.

Andrews was given access to a previously sealed U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives database that outlines the origins of firearms involved in crime.

In one gun-smuggling case with North Carolina ties, federal prosecutors say Darrin Anthony Wright, 35, also known as "New York" and "D," moved to Wilson County two years ago and recruited six family members to illegally buy about 40 firearms that were resold for cash and drugs on the black market in New York.

Wright pleaded guilty and will be sentenced in October in U.S. District Court in Raleigh. The Wilson County residents also pleaded guilty in May and are scheduled for sentencing this week in U.S. District Court in the Eastern District of North Carolina.

Wright gave the co-conspirators money to buy the guns and compensated them with cash or marijuana. He then removed the firearms' serial numbers and took them to New York.

Andrews also found that North Carolina is ranked fifth among all states that were sources of crime handguns recovered in other states.

Because of its tough gun laws, New York is the destination for more illegally smuggled "crime handguns" than any other state, according to the ATF database.

Federal, state and local law enforcement agencies have increased prosecution of gun crimes, including trafficking, under Project Safe Neighborhoods, a Bush administration initiative.

Some officials say what's really needed are tougher laws restricting the number of guns a person can buy.

"There's no denying people are coming here to get guns," said Jim Mercer, special agent in charge of the ATF's Raleigh district. "Any legislation to tighten that up is a step in the right direction."

With a bogus driver's license to establish residence and a felony-free criminal record, a smuggler can show up in North Carolina and buy a small arsenal. Wake County, for example, allows five gun permits per application, with no limit on the number of applications.

North Carolina state Rep. Wayne Sexton, a Republican from Eden, said he believes in responsible gun legislation. But he said penalizing law-abiding gun owners with more restrictive firearm laws because of the
illegal actions of a few is going too far.

"Enforce the existing gun laws," Sexton said.

He co-sponsored bills during the past General Assembly session to reduce renewal fees for concealed handgun permits and to exempt holders of concealed-gun permits from having to apply for additional gun permits.

Sexton said legitimate gun owners rarely buy four or five guns a week.

"And if they do, then law enforcement should question that. It ought to throw up a red flag," he said.

It does. Federal law requires dealers to report all multiple gun buys directly to the ATF.

But state Rep. Jennifer Weiss, a Cary Democrat who has sponsored two gun-control bills that were defeated in the past three years, disagreed.

"If you really believe we're fine and the existing laws are working, then why is North Carolina ranked number five in the country for gun trafficking?" she asked.

 

[Majic]

You want to know where these cheap street guns are found? You have to stop being a "tolerated" visitor to these areas and move in for a couple of years. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. No one who knows of the supply line will give you any useful information because you are not a known criminal. A "snitch" living in those areas can lead a horrible life.

Study: N.C. a major source for illegal guns

This is nothing new. NYC has always been looking for excuses for their crime problem. Before North Carolina they blamed Virgina. Before us they blamed South Carolina. Each time they used I-95 as the corridor to bringing the guns into their city. In another 10 years or so they will pick another southern state on the east coast.

 

[Onmilo]

Doesn't bother me that the crooks have guns, i really don't care where they got them as long as I have my own guns to repel them,,,,,,

 

[migoi]

Color me confused...

Thorn, wasn't it you a few days ago advocating registration as a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

"one i have a problem with=

registration of guns does not keep felons from getting guns.

see, i dont completely buy that."

My interpretation of this thread is that stolen guns are the source of felon possessing firearms.

"i guess the moral is if we really want guns not to end up in crimes, people gotta keep them extra secure."

Did the reasons put forth in the other thread change your mind or is the side switching just an intellectual exercise to keep the forums lively?

Education of gunowners and encouragement of gun retailers to offer discounts on gun safes when purchasing a firearm IS something I can get behind. True, no amount of security will stop a determined thief but you can slow them down and force them to make more noise in their attempts thus increasing the chances of getting caught.

migoi

 

[dloken]

Is there a way to have the police or FFL run a serial # on a firearm to determine if it's stolen or been used in a crime?

I've had people come up to me offering me cheap firearms, fine as long as the gun doesn't have a history I guess.

 

[Librarian]

Is there a way to have the police or FFL run a serial # on a firearm to determine if it's stolen or been used in a crime?

Not really.

I don't think an FFL has access, but I don't know for sure. BATFE can trace -some- guns, as can some larger police departments; I suppose CA DOJ can do some. Generally it's paper records of SNs from manufacturers or importers, to wholesalers (if any), to retailers, to first purchaser in FFL's bound book. But if registration-at-purchase is not implemented, or some other requirement that individuals register on transfer, the chain stops.

Not all firearms stolen are reported (or, apparently, even known to be stolen for an extended time in some cases). Not all firearms have serial numbers (mostly foreign military surplus and antiques).

Used in a crime? Not based on SN unless it has been 'lost' from an evidence room or returned to a legitimate owner and reappears; the SN would not be known unless the weapon were recovered and associated with some crime.

 

[cliffy109]

Its already illegal to buy a handgun in a state in which you don't reside. It has been since 1968. If you don't have proof of residence, you can't buy a handgun in NC. Furthermore, if a person buys more than 3 handguns at a time, the transaction is reported to the BATF.

So what do these studies tell us? Well probably nothing. If they are trying to say the 1968 GCA is ineffective, let's repeal it and see how thing work.

 

[cliffy109]

Oh and yes there is a list for dealers and police to check if a gun has been reported as stolen.

 

[armoredman]

Murder, rape and armed robbery are already felonies where ever they are committed. Very few criminals, (based on my unscientific interviews on incarcerated felons in the prisons I have worked at), give a rat's patoot about gun laws. They will, and do, laugh about gun control. It's meaningless.
The only gun law on the books worth the paper it's written on is the 2A.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Offenders can buy a handgun in North Carolina for $100 and sell it for $500 or more in New York.

The free market has spoken.

 

[dloken]

Not really.

So what happens if I purchase a firearm from someone in a legal private transfer and it ends up being stolen or having been used in a crime? Confiscation from me? I mean i'm not going to go out to a street corner trying to buy a Lorcin or anything, but say someone of questionable moral character (Not saying they're a criminal) offers to sell you a firearm?

 

[thorn726]

Did the reasons put forth in the other thread change your mind or is the side switching just an intellectual exercise to keep the forums lively?

actually this thread is seperate from that.

first, yeah, from what i get from you guys, the other thread-
i hadnt made up my mind , i was asking a question, and you guys gave me the answer. registration ultimately serves one purpose=
the govt knows where to find the guns.

this thread is just what i have found out from years on/ near the street, and increasing local investigations of my own as of late.

my comment about the fact that at least here (points taken about southern guns moving north, i have heard of these things too)
was i found it pretty odd that the illegal gun dealers here are essentially thieves, and (again, here) there is less of the "good guy buys gun for bad guy"

so these are two seperate issues, the thread of registration issue, and what i have found on the street, although perhaps registration keeps a few guns from criminals, it really isnt doing anything, there's no shortage for someone who really wants one.

i am not in any way anti gun.

i am just not well educated (yet) AND am trying to formulate the best possible methods for changing the minds of the hard core antis around me.

further, i think this stuff would be of intrest to some people -

i mean if we really wanted to find them, we could get some of those fremont guns back, and just when people tell you oh guns are so easy , $40 you can tell them that is not exactly true.

 

[GunGeek]

This has me mad as H311!

the fremont gun store robbery

All that time I lived in Fremont and there was a gun store i didn't know about!!!!

 

[whm1974]

if a person buys more than 3 handguns at a time, the transaction is reported to the BATF.

If you buy more then one handgun at a time, The FFL holder has to fill out another form.

So what happens if I purchase a firearm from someone in a legal private transfer and it ends up being stolen or having been used in a crime? Confiscation from me? I mean i'm not going to go out to a street corner trying to buy a Lorcin or anything, but say someone of questionable moral character (Not saying they're a criminal) offers to sell you a firearm?

Always get a bill of sale. If you knowaly brought stolen goods, you could end up in prison. As a rule a don't buy guns from people I don't know.

-Bill