Restoring an old gun; why so controversial?

Whether or not the "item" (be it a car, a firearm, or whatever) is "ruined" depends on the quality and care that goes into the restoration.

Did this paint job increase or decrease the value of the car?

208714d1287630346-worst-paintjob-ever-trans-am-005.jpg

Everyone always points to these beautiful car restorations than cost $8,000 - $10,000, and say, "See, restoring is good," and ignore the time when the "restoration" was done like the above.

And, others will say "Never restore, it ruins the value." Really?

Which of the below is worth more?

maxresdefault.jpg
 
If it's never going to be sold, it has no monetary value.
Restore it, enjoy it, paint it purple if you want, it's yours.
If you ever planned on selling it, then that might be a different story.
Sorry to hear about your dad.
 
I think the first question here is how much do you really care about what others think. The classical American rugged individualist these days is supposed to be totally unconcerned with anyone else's opinion, but since you did seek a group opinion I don't really think he's you. He's not me either, at least not entirely. So your concern is admirable.

That leads to a second question about which particular group concerns you most. It sounds like you're thinking about gun collectors.

Collectors value pieces in extremely good original condition. Guns are only original once.

They should by rights have no interest in a refinished or otherwise altered gun (with some exceptions). Yeah, you'll get an effete sniff from a few, but that's because some of them are also wealthy snobs. To a real collector, every altered example just makes the original condition survivors more valuable. Also there are collectors who are actually investors with little interest in shooting. For me, the opinions of snobs and investors are irrelevant.

If you spent big bucks for a full-on restoration by somebody like Turnbull, your gun would look and work great and be worth more than when you started, but as an investment you'd end up losing money. Same thing if you had Hamilton Bowen turn it into a custom masterpiece -- this kind of work costs big bucks. Almost everyone (there's always exceptions) would admire a firearm given this kind of care. The worst you might hear is, "I would have preferred it [blank], but that looks magnificent"

https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/
https://bowenclassicarms.com/

I'm guessing you're thinking along the lines of a more basic refinish job. Since you're starting with a gun that has serious flaws in the original factory finish, a real collector would know that the piece already has nothing to do with them.

I'll give you a real-world example that may help: long ago when Big-5 had Swiss K31s for under $200, I bought one specifically to trick out. I didn't finish the project until pretty recently, but I was happy with the results. I posted a photo of it to the Swiss Rifle Collectors FB group (along with the other Swiss arms I own, still in original condition)

K31Custom.jpg

I pointed out in the post that I didn't make a habit of doing this, plus the original rifle had already been altered. The replies from the other collectors in this group were overwhelmingly positive. And this from the same folks that once excoriated me for days on a chat thread for referring to a Swiss 'Luger' instead of using the correct term 'Parabellum'.

IMO, the only real crime is altering an extremely rare piece, and that is a crime against history rather than collecting. I don't think any of us here are likely to handle one of J M Browning's shop prototypes and run right out to have it Magnaported and Cerakoted.
 
Last edited:
BTW, my sincere sympathies for your loss.

I lost my wife to cancer in February, and one of the the first things I did was to remove all reminders of her long illness from my house. How you choose to remember a loved one is an entirely personal choice, and I think a restored Woodsman is a particularly thoughtful way to do it.
 
My sympathies for your loss.
Purists are purists. They have something going inside their head that might not make sense to the rest of us.
I was over on another forum talking about SAA's.
The consensus seems to be that a pitted grey 1st generation is the epitome of beauty and history. What history? I'd bet that the majority of grey 1st gen SAA's spent their time doing what most other guns were doing...mostly sitting in someone's leaky and mildewy closet, basement, attic, or barn slowly losing it's finish, gaining that "old west patina" :confused:

I swear for every worn out, grey, rusty SAA there are a dozen fanciful but made-up stories whirling around in the head of those SAA collectors involving cowboys, indians, shootouts, bank robbers, frontier living, cavalry charges, and a lot of other nonsense.

A worn out gun without a story is a worn out gun, no better or worse than any of the used guns I have, not even as cool as the police surplus model 10's I own, because at least those have a bona fida history.

As such, I find most properly refinished guns to be vastly more visually appealing than their clapped out but original counterparts.
 
Last edited:
Which of the below is worth more?

View attachment 1156809

This looks like one of those youtoobs where a gun or other object is intentionally neglected, rusted, battered, and disfigured for the purpose of making a show of cleaning it up.
I would not consider it in the same league as a family heirloom which should be maintained and treasured.
 
Whether or not the "item" (be it a car, a firearm, or whatever) is "ruined" depends on the quality and care that goes into the restoration.

Did this paint job increase or decrease the value of the car?

View attachment 1156808

Everyone always points to these beautiful car restorations than cost $8,000 - $10,000, and say, "See, restoring is good," and ignore the time when the "restoration" was done like the above.

And, others will say "Never restore, it ruins the value." Really?

Which of the below is worth more?

View attachment 1156809

Still not accurate.
You are comparing a junk, rusty gun that likely doesn't even work to a clean, working and decently looking gun. Of course the restored gun is gonna be worth more.

Would you go buy a new truck, the dealer has only 2 trucks on the lot. Both priced at 70k only difference one is beat to pi$$ from hail, which one you buying?

This chevelle belonged to a fellow in my chevelle club, it's the LS6 benchmark car. All other chevelles are judged against THIS car. It's all original, I've seen in person, it's an awesome car.
Last time I saw it run through an auction it sold for 1 million dollars, a restored LS6 won't bring half of that.
If one took it down to Macco to fix the very minor paint flaws, you would absolutely destroy the the value of that car.

upload_2023-6-15_16-26-25.png

When an item is in a condition that warrants a restoration, restore the thing.
The collector value of that Colt is gone. I wouldn't think twice about it.
 
My condolences. I am sorry for your loss. The pistol is yours. Do whatever you will like best.
 
When an item is in a condition that warrants a restoration, restore the thing.
The collector value of that Colt is gone. I wouldn't think twice about it.
What I am saying, and you are missing, is the value is also going to depend highly on the quality of the restoration job.

Which is worth more?

This:
screen-shot-2020-04-30-at-9-25-23-pm-png.png

Or, this:
p3100007bbb-jpg.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing your story. I think the key here is it is up to what everyone wants to do and what they like/value. Now I guess it is a shame if someone restores anything that has a high collector value and it diminishes its value but again, up to the owner. MOst guns are one of so many and they are not unique in most respects. I have a Swedish Mauser that is 1 of approx 38,000 as an Oberndorf model and these things do not command a high value or significant collector status. I identify as a shooter/reloader that likes projects and making sure they all shoot well. I am not a collector but have a couple of high value collector guns. I have some guns I have fully restored, some that I refinished the stock and others that I will do nothing. I have a 1937 Remington 241 that just looked terrible and has been in the family its whole life and will continue to be, so I fully refinished it and it practically looks like it did in 1937. I have a 1953 IHC M1 Garand that has lost all of its parkerizing but I will leave it just like it is - it is super accurate for a standard unmodified Garand. My 1941 Model94 30WCF stock looked really bad and I refinished it but did not modify the color so it looks like the original. These 3 particular guns I don't plan to sell but pass on. All to say, you do what you want that makes sense to you.
 
It's a multi-faceted question.

Think of it this way: does an original Luger P08 hold some increase value in your mind over theoretical reproduction made today? If so, then why? For most people its simply because "its original". We place less value on reproductions or copies.

On a restored gun, the gun itself, may be original, but the condition is effectively a reproduction. Doesn't mean is doesn't have worth, but to some who value that originality more than improved condition the worth is diminished some.

Now to me - it largely depends on the starting condition. If its between a moderately weathered gun with honest wear and refinished, then I'll take the original. However if the original is truly beat all to heck and back, isn't functioning correctly, etc, then for those I see refinishing and repair as a good thing.

In your case for a relative's gun I'd say its a special case. Its fire damaged so I'd probably want it restored too. Outside of that though, for instance I have my grandfather's Stevens 311. It's pretty worn but I wouldn't touch it. Every nick and scratch in that stock and the finish was put there by my grandfather while he was out hunting with it and using it. To me refinishing it would be erasing the mark he put on the gun.
 
A lot of collector effect going on.
Old ads used to specify "10% original finish in protected areas."
And the collector who said "Remember, 100% factory refinish is Zero original finish." He talked me out of a very nice looking reblued .44 Russian, but later sold me a NM No 3 .38-44 Target that he could not stand the renickel on.
 
Perception tends to be everything.
There's a notion that the patina a 70-80% condition firearm might have ought not be "restored" for "taking away" from it's "original condition" value.

Now, as the condition gets closer to 50% you will tend to find folks who will be more likely suggest retaining "original patina" to be absurd. Some of that will be linked to the rarity (especially the perceived rarity). Taking a 15-20% condition STG-45 in to be cerrakoted might raise an eyebrow or two. A generic .38spl snubbie, less so.

YMMV
 
What I am saying, and you are missing, is the value is also going to depend highly on the quality of the restoration job.

Which is worth more?

This:
View attachment 1156984

Or, this:
View attachment 1156985
That rough looking Woodsman is worth far more than that God-awful Bubba job in the top pic. Some drunk monkey went overboard with a polishing wheel, washed out the Mag catch hole and probably did a lot more damage that we can't see.
 
@Trey Veston. my condolences to you and your family for your loss. My he rest in eternal peace and his memory live on through the good times you spend with the firearms you inherited.

I have “restoration blued” two S&W revolvers; one is a CAI import 3” Model 36 I bought “in the white” after bubba had stripped the bluing off of with what looked like a Brillo pad and he tried to polish off the import marks under the cylinder. This gun was ruined from abuse, and it turned out ok after being polished a bit to reduce the surface scratches and reblued.

IMG_1504.jpeg IMG_1505.jpeg

The other gun was my Great Uncles duty M&P .38 from 1945-1965. It had plenty of holster wear, a deep scratch right through the logo, what looked like a 13 or a B etched under the cylinder on the left side and surface rust on the grip from years of salty sweat.

Yes, it was honest wear. But I wanted it to look like it did when he started out, so it, too was redone. It makes me happy to look at it and shoot it, as your Colt will do for you. :)

IMG_0596.jpeg IMG_0597.jpeg

So I say to go get your Woodsman refinished. Then go out and shoot it, enjoy it, cherish it. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
What I am saying, and you are missing, is the value is also going to depend highly on the quality of the restoration job.

Which is worth more?

This:
View attachment 1156984

Or, this:
View attachment 1156985

Aside from the kinda crappy pics, the bottom.

As a guy who is in the business of building high end custom cars and restorations, am fully aware of the associated price tag behind the builders name.
Some people are perfectly content with a 1500 dollar Macco special, some people simply can not fathom the work and time that goes behind a 100k paint job, and others will wait years to pay that 100k and often times far far more.
 
I don't care what others say about refurbishing a gun, I have done several. I'm the one that uses the guns not people who tell me to leave it alone.
 
Perception tends to be everything.
There's a notion that the patina a 70-80% condition firearm might have ought not be "restored" for "taking away" from it's "original condition" value.

I'll bet you're old enough to get this joke from Man At Arms magazine: "This piece should nicely clean up to Flayderman"

(For the rest of you, the old paper Flayderman's catalogs had a habit of optimistically describing condition. Now that they're gone I miss them!)
 
As long as Flayderman's was in print, you could advertise an old gun for sale by the Flayderman number and condition:
"Flayderman 9995B VG" would be a complete description.
 
Back
Top