Results of the .380 Up close and personal...

After seeing this, would you continue to carry a .380 or opt for something bigger?

  • Yes

    Votes: 136 70.8%

  • No

    Votes: 6 3.1%

  • Would not carry .380 to begin with.

    Votes: 50 26.0%
  • Total voters
    192
  • Poll closed .
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I think we're missing the real cause, methodology. He tried to shoot himself from the bottom of the chin. This is one of the worst ways to shoot yourself. Realize many suicidal patients are high on adrenaline and don't quite want to die.

He probably flinched and the bullet went from the bottom of his chin and out his mouth (hence the broken teeth).
 
No offence taken Ridgerunner665. If I am out around town I am mainly worried about mugging or car theft. I think, in these situations, a perp wants the least resistance and if I draw a weapon he/they will flee. If not, and I fear for my life, then I will shoot.
 
I'm more surprised that the guy actually called 911 to save his life after realizing it didn't work, instead of trying to kill himself again, than I am about the ballistic results. It's strange how a failed attempt will make people realize they don't really want to die.

Anyhow, it sounds like the bullet most likely hit a lot of bone, which slowed it down and altered its trajectory. The outcome is not surprising to me and I don't see it as another .380 "failure."
 
You may want to rethink posting this kind of info in the future. It is a HIPPA violation technically. Just friendly advise, not flaming you.
Click to expand...

I thought long and hard about this, and even vetted the original post through the mods to make sure I was being safe. If I thought anyone would be able to figure out any details of the call I would be more concerned, but other that those in scanner land no one knew this incident happened, and even if they did without any patient identifier there is no violation. I hope. :)
 
pt6998 said:
This reminds me of a story I saw on Youtube of a women that was shot in the face with what is believed to be a .45 or .44cal weapon and survived. It did go through a car windshield and the story didn't say if it was a HP or FMJ. Just goes to say that crazy things happen.
Here's that story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uOJ4RMW_U
Click to expand...

Windshields are notoriously hard on the physical integrity of typical bullets, and when you combine that with what was probably a somewhat glancing blow off a hard part of her skull (because of its contour at the point of impact and/or the orientation of her head), this is not so hard to believe, actually. I'm not saying she wasn't lucky, though, as a more resilient bullet or different point of impact would very likely have killed her.
 
I carry a .32, my other guns are just too big to conceal on my frame. The only time I expect to use it would be within 6 feet or less (I don't want to go to jail) and I feel 7 rounds to the chest will stop anyone. If the guy had an assisted scuicide where the mag would have been emptied we would not be having this discussion.
 
Having worked in trauma 1 hospitals for over 20 years and seen a lot of gsws, I do and will continue carry a 380. Handgun rounds are not rifle rounds. It is not the arrow that kills, it is the Indian.
 
I didn't vote because I never carried a .380 but if I had one this wouldn't keep me from carrying it. People have survived being shot with a lot bigger rounds. My wife took care of a guy who shot the front of his face off with a .410 shotgun and lived. I worked a case one time where a man was shot near the temple with a .380 (fmj) and he droped dead. A .22 short will do the job, "if" you know where to place the bullet.

J.B.
 
"A well placed 380 round will end someone faster than a poorly placed 44 mag."

Didn't Jeff Cooper once say he'd rather miss with a .45 than hit with a .380..?
 
Okay, the guy decided to commit suicide in the most inefficient headshot method ever. Instead of just sticking the gun to the side of his head, or sticking it in his mouth, he did THIS? Yes, it's been done before successfully, but still, there's easier methods that work better.
 
The patient flinched before he/she pulled the trigger causing the gun's barrel to take a more anterior path through the mandible, incisors and ANS and anterior maxillary ridge. Any caliber would have done this! In other words flinching while pulling the trigger causes the gun to take a more parallel position to the head/face rather than the oblique angle which would destroy the soft pallet/ hard pallet junction then enter the brain. This is actually common among attempted suicides, the worst are the shotgun attempts because the patients is usually left blind and facially disfigured but otherwise OK.
 
As a retired cop with years of homicide experience I have seen just about every caliber of weapon used for committing murder or suicide. I remain amazed at the capacity of the human body to absorb damage. However, a 12 guage seems to settle things rather permanently.

Bullets fired into bone react unexpectedly and in weird ways. A .22 long rifle bullet can richochet from the pelvic area up to the clavicle and back down again penetrating vital ogans along the way with fatal results. A .357 through the temple from 20 feet did a perfect frontal lobotomy and exited with killing an armed suspecty. His personality is definitely non-violent and passive at this time.

So, would I carry .380 for self protection? Absolutely! When hot weather arrives I cannot conceal my .45 easily so I rigged an innocent looking camera bag for it and carry extra mags and other gear inside. In my waistband is my .380 Sig for quick access. If I were to use it I would put multiple rounds where they would be most effective.

The handgun ammo currently available is much improved and will do the job.
 
CORRECTION: The suspect shot through the temple with the 357 was NOT KILLED. He lived and was never involved in crime afterwards.
 
FTSESQ said:
... Talk to Hitler and his cronies... The 380 did them well
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It was a .32 and he also bit down on a cyanide capsule.


Apparently he wasn't as confident of the lethality of small caliber pistols as you are.


And which "cronies" would that be???
 
Based on 25 years of street experience in a major metro area, the one thing I can assure you is that bullets act weird when they hit people. There are absolutely no absolutes. I've been to a lot of shootings.

I have seen a .25 bounce off the side of a guys head in a suicide attempt. (couple of times now that I think about it)

Guy buys .25 auto from pawnshop, walks up to (former) girlfriend, points gun at his head, one shot, drops dead. (interesting sidebar, ballistics matched the gun to an unsolved murder about two years prior to the suicide)

Two gangbangers playing with a stolen .25. One round in the forehead, DRT.

Gang banger A was driving down the street and leaned across the passenger side and fired one round of .22LR out the passenger window of his bouncing car at gang banger B and hit him square in the aorta. Must have been 25 yards. Dropped him like a sack of potatoes. (I could have stood there with a case of .22's and he would never had made that shot again)

Another guy was running from a shooting, got hit in the butt with a 9mm. Told us what was happening and seemed fine, loaded him in an ambulance, he died before he got to the hospital. (took awhile to figure out what happened on that one, picture running, bent over, from someone shooting at you, the round hit him in the butt, and basically traveled straight horizontally into his torso)

Through and through neck shot, side to side with a .45. Several mile car chase, foot chase and finally barricaded in an apartment until he decided his head hurt and, the bleeding wouldn't stop. Arraigned in court the next morning with a big wad of gauze on each side of his neck.

Suspect trying to run over Officers. Through the windshield, shot in the face with a .40. Had to be fought into handcuffs, spit the bullet out on the way to the hospital.

Two guys fighting, hear a "pop" one guy drops. Dead before anyone can do anything, .25 auto in the femoral artery.

Guy pulls a knife on an Officer, Officer shoots him once in the lower abdomen with a Speer Gold Dot 18o GR. Falls on the knife. Almost died. Doctors said the GSW was trivial, the stab would almost killed him.



On and on.....

Placement is king. Penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin. (Don't know who I stole that from, but, that just sums it up)

My other favorite quote from one of my very good friends: Poke a hole, poke the biggest hole you can, poke it all the way through.
 
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Meh...

Many threats are stopped by the mere presentation of ANY firearm, others are stopped as soon as they get SHOT by any firearm, others continue to pose a threat DESPITE being shot by any firearm. Pick your poison...

I wouldn't carry a .380 for defense....unless it was all I had, or could control. It's not, so I don't.

I anticipate the need to deliver multiple rounds on target to stop a threat with pretty much any hand gun, as they are ALL pretty weak when you get right down to it.
 
Ok my two cents worth.
I have a new Ruger LCP that I have carried now for some months. The first gun that I have had in my hands since Vietnam. ( Was not in combat, was an adviser before the big troop build up three months after I left.). So far I like everything about the gun. It does have the Crimson Trace laser sights. It is very comfortable to carry in any situation. Stuck in my pants at four o'clock with just a SuperFly, or a comfortable NRA slide holster. I have the same for my new LCR also. LCR with XS sights.
My thinking is that with the laser sights I should be able to place some very effective shots, which notwithstanding any short comings of the smaller .380 caliper. And with the ballistics of the Corbon Saftey Slug, I feel even more prepared. Here are some of the Ballistics of several common rounds.

Given these ballistics, doesn't the .380 fare well?

380 Ammunition Ballistics Chart
http://tinyurl.com/29el67y

** Glaser Saftey Slug **
380 SS 70 244 1200

** Glaser Saftey Slug **
http://tinyurl.com/2djofup

.38+P PB 100 294 (1.75"bbl SN) 1150
.38+P PB 100 516 (5"bbl) 1525


Some favorite rounds



Speer Ammunition Ballistics
http://tinyurl.com/247my3l

Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy (ftlbs.) Muzzle Velocity (fps)
** Gold Dots **
40 SW GDHP 155 496 1200
40 SW GDHP 165 484 1150
40 SW GDHP 180 420 1025



Speer Ammunition Ballistics
http://tinyurl.com/2beabjp

Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy (ftlbs.) Muzzle Velocity (fps)
45 ACP GDHP 185 453 1050
45 ACP GDHP 230 404 890
45 ACP TMJ FN 185 453 1050
45 ACP TMJ FN 200 422 975
45 ACP TMJ FN 230 352 830
45 ACP TMJ RN 230 352 830
45 ACP TMJ RN 230 365 845
** Short Barrel Round **
45 ACP GDHP-SB 230 343 820

Again, I am new to this. I bought the guns mainly because of the new administration's antipathy of hand guns and the second amendment. And in the event that there is a shooting in a public place such as a shopping center or church.
 
Look, I used to know a guy who wanted to kill himself with

a 12 gauge held under his chin. At the last second, he flinched, succeeding in removing about half his face permanently and making his life even more miserable than it seemed before. He lived more than 20 years after that incident, eventually died of cancer.

So, is the shotgun too small to carry for defense?


mark
 
excerpt from a magazine article.....

The popular excuse for carrying an inadequate weapon is represented by the line: "The .380 I carry is better for me than the .44 I leave at home on the night stand." OK, maybe, and maybe not! I personally know (or knew) four people who used a .380 in a close range gunfight. Even though all shot really well (hitting the high chest multiple times in every case) none were successful in winning the fight. All the .380 users received grievous wounds.

better to have a knife than a 380 IMHO
 
There was a case near here where two brothers owned an auto parts store. One caught the other messing with his wife. Next morning they shoot it out in the store. Both had head wounds. Both had .40's. Range was a couple feet. Both lived. Just saying....sometimes caliber is unimportant.

t2e
 
papa bear said:
excerpt from a magazine article.....

The popular excuse for carrying an inadequate weapon is represented by the line: "The .380 I carry is better for me than the .44 I leave at home on the night stand." OK, maybe, and maybe not! I personally know (or knew) four people who used a .380 in a close range gunfight. Even though all shot really well (hitting the high chest multiple times in every case) none were successful in winning the fight. All the .380 users received grievous wounds.

better to have a knife than a 380 IMHO
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Cute ancedote but like most magazine articles it really doesn't tell us anything, and is so completely lacking in details that it's useless.


They all received "grievous wounds" and "lost the fight".

What kind of wounds and inflicted by what kind of weapons???



He "personally" knows four people who used .380s and lost?

He must know a lot of people or live in a really bad neighborhood.

Does he have some examples of some of his acquaintances who won fights with larger calibers, or do all his cronies carry .380s???


What exactly is it from this article that leads you to conclude that these four people would have won the fight or faired better had they been armed with a knife instead???
 
Bullet entered chin, went through lower jaw, tongue, broke a bunch of teeth...
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Teeth are very hard and can soak up a lot of energy in the process of breaking. I believe there was an incident where a U.S. soldier was shot in the face with a 9mm. It punctured his upper lip and knocked out an upper incisor but he was otherwise uninjured.

Here's the story.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/teeth.asp
 
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I've seen plenty of people shot on the streets of DC to have come to my own conclusions:

1. Put enough holes in anyone before a surgeon can fill them up, and they're dead.
2. The best gun for me, is the one with which I am the most familiar, and accurate.
3. The only substitute for muscle memory, is pure luck; and I never seem to have enough of either.
4. When in doubt, see rule No. 1.

Like MAC, and the Sgt., I've seen peoples lives ruined by some of the craziest things - a pellet gun at point blank range? 14 year old young man, DOA, and his friend is truly sorry for it. Someone beat to death with a kitchen corn broom - I can't tell you how many corn brooms my mother wore out across my backside, only to realize that "Hey! I coulda been killed!"... the short of it is, I'll take .380 and my chances, but I prefer my 9mm daily carry piece, if for no other reason than it's 'what I know.'

-tc
 
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