Results of the .380 Up close and personal...

After seeing this, would you continue to carry a .380 or opt for something bigger?

  • Yes

    Votes: 136 70.8%

  • No

    Votes: 6 3.1%

  • Would not carry .380 to begin with.

    Votes: 50 26.0%
  • Total voters
    192
  • Poll closed .
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Cute ancedote but like most magazine articles it really doesn't tell us anything, and is so completely lacking in details that it's useless.


They all received "grievous wounds" and "lost the fight".

What kind of wounds and inflicted by what kind of weapons???



He "personally" knows four people who used .380s and lost?

He must know a lot of people or live in a really bad neighborhood.

Does he have some examples of some of his acquaintances who won fights with larger calibers, or do all his cronies carry .380s???


What exactly is it from this article that leads you to conclude that these four people would have won the fight or faired better had they been armed with a knife instead???
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Weevil.... Thanks for being the typical internet forum poster.

I just copied an excerpt from a magazine. What difference does it make whether he knows people who used bigger calibers? He said they used a .380 round. enough said. I'm sure no one's packing a concealed 8" revolver in .380 ( I know there is no such gun). As far as what kind of wounds.... let me take a wild stab at a bullet wound..... Nothing leads me to believe they would have "faired better" with a knife. It was a mellow-sarcastic statement. I personally think using a .380 in a sd situation is a poor choice. many experts agree.

These victims may have lived, had they not been packin a .380 and played the hostage/co-operative role instead. I don't know the circumstance. Just speculation (don't bother flaming me on the speculation). Next time I will post the entire 10 page article (deleted -- Sam)
 
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Well papa I once heard the saying, "don't believe everything you read".



Sorry to offend you but I'm just naturally a skeptic and I have a hard time believing somebody who says they "personally" knew four people who came out on the bad end of a fight because all they had was a measly .380.

If you have some actual evidence of some sort that provides a bit more detail and that perhaps can be verified in some way then fine. Or even a reference to the article so I can read it for myself would be nice.


.......but all you're doing is providing a blurb from a somewhat dubious source, that simply fits with your own opinion of the .380 and it's abilities.


I mean come on, don't be such a cry-baby just because I point out some of the holes in your most favorite magazine article.


If your response is just to get butt-hurt and walk away fine, but I was trying to have a discussion and pointing out the flaws in your post.


Isn't that why we're here???
 
(deleted -- Sam)

If you have some actual evidence of some sort that provides a bit more detail and that perhaps can be verified in some way then fine. Or even a reference to the article so I can read it for myself would be nice.
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This question would have been appropriate the first time around, don't you think?

Now, (deleted -- Sam), the article was written by Jim Higginbotham. (deleted -- Sam)
 
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Let's step back and take a breath...shall we?

I don't think anybody is arguing that the .380 ACP is a man stomper, nor is nobody arguing that there aren't better cartridges available. The plain, ugly truth is that any handgun that is practical for carry is pretty anemic when your life is at stake, and the reason that we carry handguns is because we can't carry rifles or shotguns with us as we go about our daily routines.

It's also arguably true that the smaller and lighter the handgun, the more portable it is...and the more likely we are to have it with us all the time. There are dedicated souls who pack Model 29s all day, every day, but they are the exception. Homo Sapien is basically lazy, preferring to take the path of least resistance whenever possible. The 12-ounce .380 caliber pistol or .38 caliber revolver offers us the means to carry a gun without working too hard at it...and nobody can dispute the fact that when the wolf comes knockin' at your door, any gun is better than no gun.

Carrying a defensive sidearm isn't about guarantees. There are no guarantees, regardless of caliber or capacity...or even placement. It's about stacking the deck a little higher in our favor when the game suddenly turns informal.

The mini-gun's role is a last-ditch means to get out of a bad situation. It's not a gun that you make a stand with. As our esteemed Moderator Emiterus Pax wrote: Fight like a cornered cat. The cat doesn't want to fight, and prefers not to unless no other option is available. Even when a fight is inevitible, all the cat wants to do is hurt its attacker and gain time and opportunity to get away. The .380 will provide that exit strategy, but...as with any of the lesser calibers...you have to be cold and you have to be ruthless. Shoot early and shoot often. Shoot for the softest spot that you can...and run like hell at the first opening.

Be well. Be careful. Be safe.
 
Although the lack of power of the .380 cartridge out of my LCP is a little sub par in my opinion, I still feel well armed because of the accuracy and speed I know I am capable of with that gun. That to me is the secret to feeling confident with so-so powered calibers, get good with the gun, really good, so good you amaze yourself. I feel that the skill I have obtained trumps the lack of power and so I am still well armed for anything short of a barricaded active shooter, or large group of zombies. :D
 
Story in the news a few years back here...some big muscle guy, carrying a Baseball Bat, harassing a young teenager, saying he will beat him up and so on, for stealing a bike the kid had not stolen, guy swings a few hard ones at the kid, kid ducks and weaves and retreats somewhat, kid was on foot muscle guy has a girlfriend with him, she sprays the kid with mace or pepper spray or something, and is screaming at him...teenager kid says "Stop it or I will shoot you".

Big muscle guy continues the hassle, winds up to swing the Bat again cursing at the kid... kid draws an older .32 Automatic, shoots big muscle guy right through the Aorta...one shot...big guy ( 6'3", 260, 30-something ) takes a few staggered steps, falls forward, dies right there.

Lots of wittnesses.

Moral of the story?
 
Well let's not forget that two shots from a .380 lead to the death of millions.


"The royal couple insisted on seeing all those injured at the hospital. After travelling there, Franz and Sophie decided to go to the palace, but their driver took a wrong turn onto a side street, where Princip spotted them. As the car was backing up, Princip approached and shot Sophie in the abdomen and Franz Ferdinand in the jugular. He was still alive when witnesses arrived to render aid. His dying words to Sophie were, 'Don't die darling, live for our children.' Princip had used the Browning .380 ACP cartridge, a relatively low-power round, and a pocket-sized FN model 1910 pistol. The archduke's aides attempted to undo his coat but realized they needed scissors to cut it open. It was too late; he died within minutes. Sophie also died en route to the hospital."


And thus began World War I with two deadly shots from a .380.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria
 
.380 is right on the edge of being able to both expand and penetrate deep. And their is a difference in performance between .380 out of a big gun vs. a tiny gun. Since placement and penetration are vital a real arguement can be made for fmj ammo. In fact when I was much younger I saw two guys shot with .380 ball. On was a drive by. The other a gang fight. Many years apart.
Both bullets broke the femur (been awhile since I've had any anatomy classes
so I hope I'm getting it right. The large bone it the upper leg). Both guys dropped like someone had kicked their feet out form under them.
Lots of blood and screaming. I don't know if they had guns if they could have returned fire or not. But they were in alot of pain with no mobility. So .380 fmj ball can work if your shots are well placed. If you want to use JHP's I would suggest Hornady XTP's. In ballistic gel tests they go 8-10 inches deep and usually expand to about .45 caliber. Plus the are very accurate rounds.
.380 would not be my first choice for defending myself. But it beats the calibers under it for performance. To me the best thing about the .380's is they now come in sizes that were once only .22 or .25 size. My Kel Tec P3AT is my summer BUG and goes everywhere I do. I'm pretty sure a rapid fire "burst" into a bad guys chest, neck, and head would do the job. So can a .380 save your life? Sure even a .22 can. Contrary to all the myths .22 long rifle can do alot of damage in the right spot. But personally I would want a small 9mm over the .380. And theirs a ton of them out there right now.
 
I would suggest Hornady XTP's.
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Here are some ballistics for the two rounds, both Corbon.

380 SS 70 244 1200
9mm XTP 115 341 1155
Not a great deal of difference?

Does this somewhat minimize the difference? I would think so. But I am new to all this. I do have an LCP and carry Corbon Safety Slugs, Blue.

The first gun that I have had in my hands since Vietnam.
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My first purchase was a Ruger .327 revolver. When I put it in the nice new IWB-tuckable holster, I found that it was much to heavy and large to ever be something I would want to carry daily, which was the intended purpose. Thank goodness it is a defective piece and the factory gladly refunded my money. Then I bought The LCP weighing only 11.8 ounces loaded. I put it in my front pocket and went to show my open carry neighbor my new gun, I thought how foolish, I forgot to bring the gun, then realized it was in my front pocket. I was now sure that I made the right decision with the LCP. I have never left the house without it , not once. Isn't that what we say about concealed carry? To Carry! I saw a signature on a post one day and have adopted the idea myself. "Always carry-Never Tell." and as Nutnfancy says, "Deep Concealment." So I think the .380 Can fit the bill in this regard.

Again, just my thoughts.

Jim
 
RevolvingGarbage said:
I'm almost 100% sure that the gun Ferdinand was killed with was a .32 auto. The bullet that killed his wife Sophie went through the side of their car first as well.
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"Princip's .380 ACP caliber Browning 1910, serial number 19074, was found and recovered in June 2004 from a Jesuit monastery in Vienna. It is now on display at the Museum of Military History, Vienna, Austria. The second bullet fired by Princip, killing Franz Ferdinand, is stored as a museum exhibit in Konopiště Castle near the town of Benešov, Czech Republic."

http://www.reference.com/browse/Abuzz
 
I have a better one for you. Bullets to crazy things when they hit hard objects. Forget hand gun calibers. Hell people are shot all the time with ARs, Aks and still survive. A case where someone didnt die is not an argument against any caliber.

But this story takes the cake. This woman was shot in the forehead from a few yards away during a road rage with a .44 caliber and survived :)



http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23914454/
 
That is an amazing story. Although I think it might have been a light or squib load, possibly a frangible. Maybe she just has an abnormally hard forehead.
 
I still have faith in the 380- I think we focus an awful lot of energy in the gun community on the 1 shot stop. However, if this were an attack scenario with an aggressive person choking me on the ground(the only scenario I can see that would give this shot presentation) I don't think any of us would fire one and wait for the outcome. It would more likely be 2 or 3 rounds, or maybe even the whole magazine.

1 380 round under the skull might be survivable occasionally- 5 rounds to the same spot, I'm guessing far less so.
 
It just goes to show how totally unpredictable a gun shot can be regardless of the caliber.


This all started because a self-inflicted .380 shot to the head failed to kill the shooter, but here's a guy that killed himself with a .380 shot to the groin.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5212576/detail.html


A guy survives a shot to the head and a guy dies from a shot to the groin.



As mentioned there are no guarantees with any caliber of handgun, never have been, never will be.
 
The gal who was shot in 'right between the eyes'...I like how there is blood running out of the entry wound while she is being interviewed. That really has a lot of dignity and class.

I guess news people no longer carry a Handkercheif to moisten a corner of it in some spit or soda pop, to 'blot not rub' if a need arises.

I guess also, we can be glad she was not shot in the Caboose, or we would have had the pleasure of seeing that, also.

Oye...

Anyway, looked like for having perforated the windshield, the Bullet struck her at a fair and compound angle of her having tilted her face downward at the last moment, and had not struck at a tangent to her skull...hence, it or it's fragments, deflected on her skull, and slid along under the superficial tissues to the side and down, instead of penetrating.

This does suggest either a light loading, or, that the Bullet lost a lot of momentum in perforating the Windshield...or both.
 
I've enjoyed reading all the posts and especially the opinions on the 380 and it's effectiveness or lack thereof.:scrutiny:
After having my CCW for the past 14 years I finally have handguns that I can conceal in any climate without having to wear any kind of outer garment,
a Kel Tec 3AT 380acp and/or a Kel Tec 32acp. I have other guns of all sizes in 9mm, 45acp, 10mm but none of them are as effective as the 32 or 380 if they're at home in the safe.
I've carried one of them continuously since buying them and don't feel undergunned in the least. Before the Kel Tec all I had was a Benchmade and strong language.:what:
 
I once read about a guy who during the course of a suicide attempt shot himself in the bottom of the chin with a 12ga shotgun. His angle was off and he basically removed his entire face but failed to die from the wound.

I have no doubt that even a .22 Short, let alone a .380 could do the deed if the shot is properly placed.
 
For those that maintain that the bigger calibers would have been a sure thing, search the internet and you you will find the story of a guy who put a 12 gauge under his chin and pulled the trigger. It removed his jaw ans a large portion of his face but he did survive. Shot placement matters no matter the caliber, it matters MORE with smaller calibers.
 
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if you can bring it into action quickly and put multiple rounds on target until the threat stops being a threat andyhting .32 or above is fine for SD in my book, Would i carry my hi power clone instead of my makarov if i knew i was going to shoot somebody? yes.
is the makarov a whole lot easier to carry than the Hi power? yes again.

2 or 3 rounds to the torso should take most people out of commisssion reliably, 1 probably would but i wouldnt bet my life on it. If somebody brings out the meth head/crack fiend/PCP attack thing, hollowpoint .45s and 40s have failed to stop PCP users with several chest hits, they died later, but later doesnt matter to the person being attacked, my point is for most SD situations you really dont need the largest round you can get with buffalo bore magnum rounds.

That the round went through that much bone and tissue proves that with a quick double tap to the torso most threats would be taken out of action, maybe not immedietly killed, but no longer a threat none the less. I would rather trust 2 or 3 well placed shots from a smaller caliber than one poorly placed round from a .45 auto or .357 mag.
 
I would rather trust 2 or 3 well placed shots from a smaller caliber than one poorly placed round from a .45 auto or .357 mag.
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While I believe that to be true, I never understand why people use that argument to justify carrying a less powerful caliber. It just doesn't make sense, small calibers are usually in small pistols, which are harder to shoot than the large pistols that the larger calibers are in. My accuracy with a .45 or .357 is much better than with my .380. There are many valid justifications for carrying sub 9mm calibers, but that I don't think is one of them.
 
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