Retarded new Kahr PM9 with backward safety?!?

[scotthsi]

I know, jocko, but it's not specifically addressed as a loaded chamber indicator "feature". Just that the extractor CAN be used as one. Not as a totally separate function.

DeepSouth, I'll have to look at my Kahr manuals...if I can find them. What I meant was the design was never specifically designed with a purpose-built loaded chamber indicator. Even my 15 year old G19 can claim "LCI" because the extractor does the same thing as my Kahrs with a round in the chamber. Not flush and it can be felt. BUT, Glock did modify their extractors with a protruding "bump" and DOES call that an LCI now. Kahr should have went with that pure genius. ZERO changes to the slide design and only one small part would need to be modified. And it's a straight drop in fit that previous owners can add if they wanted.

 

[jocko]

I guess

it is all what WE want to address as a loaded round indicator. I feel the kahr extractor on mine in the dakr and know that it is not flush. to me that is good enough, evidentely not good enough for the state of Massachusetts or kahr probably would have left that area alone.

My G19 works almost the same way as the kahr extractor, bump or no bump, I can tell in the dark if it is loaded.

I do think kahr can state their extractor can be called a loaded round indicator for it works and looks and feels different than when no round is in the chamber.

to me a mute point and not worth arguing about either. They are not going to change their entire line to look like the Mass PM9. I would not be surpised down the road if sales are good in Mass. to see it offered in another caliber version say like the PM45. Justmy 2 cents worth, YMMV.

page 20 in kahr manual. EXTRACTOR AS A LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR (lCI)

 

[scotthsi]

I'm curious as to what MA exactly describes as a "loaded chamber indicator". Such as, does it actually have to say "indicator", show red somewhere with a loaded chamber, be a separate "pop up" device or whatever other garbage.

 

[jocko]

good question

a good question, one I am sure u should be able to find out if you dig hard enough for it.

I am sure these gun companies don't want to do alot of the things that are on guns today either, all that legal printing on the guns makes me puke but no doubt gun companies know they are a litigious target for damn near anything that happens with a gun. No doubt the prices of guns has a built in legal factor added to it. Just the nature of the product/beast.

People love to sue, lawyers love to defend people shot with a gun, they will dig and sue from the person who shot the gun right up the chain of command to the dealer, the distributour and to the mfg-er. They could care less, and most know that sueing all those will normally get some kind of settlement.

Damn look at the cigarette packages, more warnings on there than the actual brand name even, and yet litigation is going on 24/7 with the cigarette industry and most of the time they loose.

I sold guns for a live over 40 years ago and way back when you didn't see any of that warning crap printed and stamped right into the guns frame or slide. Has to be a reason why it is there today.
Probably most readers on this and other forums don't need any of those "safety" things added to guns but we also know that a vast majority of gun owners don't know diddly squat about what really makes a gun tick. Some are just not for them IMO. Kahrs are one that comes to mind. The weak ass safety feature on glocks is another, but LEO people and people who know guns love these products for how they are made and why certain featurs of total "safety" are not on that product. The ignorant consumer who buys one and has an accident due to negligience immediatley wants to sue over an "unsafe" product. Lawyers know that, gun companies know it even better. Some have been litigated right out of business, some won't fight some of these stupid state requirements, some will just by pass that state and sell where they legally can.

I personally dont' see gun restrictions getting any softer down the road either. this administration is not gun friendly, so at best we can be looking at guns being made with even more obtrusive safety features.

Again, this is merely one model out of kahrs line of over 24 models and calibers. One just needs to ignore it unless u live in Massachusetts and want one... Unless federal and all state laws totally go to hell in a hand bag, I don't see these features popping up on kahrs complete line but that being said also, if the laws mandate guns to have these features, kahrs will know what it will take to be complaint, as will all other gun companies who want to remain in business..

 

[Mal H]

This one has gone on far too long and gotten far too personal ... closed.