Revolver in .45ACP?

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outerlimit,
I tried to see if it would fire without moon clips but only four out of the six would go off. And I had to use a wood dowel to push them out. So nothing but moon clips now and no worrys.
 
Outerlimit,
Yes you can fire it without clips, just keep the strain screw tight. The ammo headspaces on the casemouth. Pick them out with a fingernail or punch them out with a pencil.
You will not find interchangable cylinders for these guns as the cylinders are dif lengths. Some have machined the .45 Colts to accept both calibers with mixed accuracy in ACP.
Just load the clips in front of the TV.
 
Nice lookin' Model 1917 posted on this thread!!!

One word of caution about the 1917 models from WAAAAY back in the WWI era though . . .

Unlike the modern S&W revolvers, they do NOT have a firing pin block mechanism SO . . . if you drop it or otherwise have the gun's uncocked hammer's firing pin nose can get struck hard, the hammer can hit a primer hard enough to fire the gun!

Thus, just like the old Wild West "single action" six shooters, it is recommended to only load five rounds in a 1917, with the hammer down on the empty chamber.


Recently a well-known flea market seller in Tallahassee Florida had his shortened-barrel M1917 fall to the ground. It was loaded with six rounds. The gun discharged and shot him . . . I believe in the leg!

Other than that tip, the 1917 is a fine handgun of course! Just be careful.

T.
 
Are newer 1917's immune?

Nice lookin' Model 1917 posted on this thread!!!

One word of caution about the 1917 models from WAAAAY back in the WWI era though . . .
Click to expand...

S&W fan:

From what you wrote, I take it this is not a universal problem, but rather one only affecting certain 1917s? Is there a way for us non-gunsmiths to easily determine whether a particular one is? I am a fan of revolvers in .45ACP, and have considered one of the 1917s to go along with my 625 :) I wish S&W would release a modern-manufacturing version of it (which, I guess you could say the 625 *is*, but I mean one that looks more like the 1917).

timothy
 
Timothy,

!evah yehT

Actually, you can have your dealer order a Model 22 'Model of 1917', SKU # 150199 in blued finish, complete with fixed sight, small grip, and lanyard ring - for MSRP $1,011. Also in Ni or CCH for more bucks.

Stainz
 
I have a couple of .45 ACPs in revolvers, ones a model 25-2, the danged thing makes me look good. It prefers cast bullets and will cut the xring outta the target at 15 yards. I also have a Ruger blackhawk in the convertible, .45 ACP or .45 colt, it is also a very accurate revolver. With the model 25-2, use no crimp and it will eject most of the emptys without the use of the moon clips.

You'll enjoy the large frame revolver in .45 ACP.
 
I had an old 1917 Smith. It was okay fun, but I got tired of the moon clip thing and it wouldn't stabilize lead bullets for crap. It was an old worn out war horse anyway, so I sold it. I don't care for the moon clip thing, rather just shoot a round that was made for revolvers. Moon clips have issues in revolvers, can get bent, are a PITA at the range, etc. I wouldn't carry a moon clip revolver. The clips are too easily damaged. Be my luck I'd slam a reload in with a bent moon clip and it'd lock up the danged gun right when I needed it.:banghead: I'd rather shoot a revolver cartridge in a revolver. .45s in autos are available in more compact guns than an N frame anyway. Carrying an N frame in .45 makes no sense when there are so many good compact .45 autos out there like, for instance, the G36. Why get a revolver in .45ACP when a compact .45 autoloader is so much more concealable and easier to carry reloads for?

JMHO. If you're stuck on these guns, fine. I just see very little merit in a moon clipped revolver in auto calibers considering the down sides and the fact that the auto pistols in these calibers make so much more sense for carry. And, why would I buy an N frame in .45 ACP when I could get one in .44 magnum, like the Mountain Gun? Or, maybe I think too logically?
 
MCgunner,
I understand your issue with moonclips. However, once I made myself a cheapo de-mooning tool, I started shooting .45 ACPs thru my 1917.

Another plus for me has been reloading .45 Auto Rim...no clip to fuss with...I like that.

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Bob
 
Well, I just see no merit in shooting auto pistol calibers in a revolver. Why not just shoot revolver calibers in revolvers and shoot your .45s in a gun designed to shoot 'em that is easier to carry anyway?

The 1917 head spaced fine without the moon clips. I found it much easier just to load 6, shoot 'em, pick 'em out with my finger nails or punch with a pencil if they were obstinate.

The 1917 was TERRIBLE with lead bullets. As I cast my own and don't shoot factory, that was totally unacceptable to me, so I got rid of it. .38/.357 is my favorite revolver cartridge anyway followed by .45 Colt. I have a .45ACP pistol and it's a fantastic gun. The only disadvantage is pickin' up the brass. But, I come home from range trips with the .45 with more brass than I left with 90 percent of the time, LOL.
 
MCg,

The Brits in WWI loved the 1917 - even if they never got enough half moon 'clips. The 'AS' round, the .45 ACP, had better knock down than their anemic (~680fps) 255gr Webley round. Also, they wanted a revolver, not trusting the still fairly new 1911. When approached with orders for the Brits, S&W adapted a .44 Special HE to the .45 ACP round - Colt ended up making many, as well. It's been in production ever since, in some form or another.

The beauty of the .45 ACP with modern fast propellants is simple - you can go from soft to fairly warm and still stay within the 21kPSI DAAMI spec rating. On the low end, a 230gr RN/FMJ making >718 fps from a 4" 625 is easy to shoot - and makes 'major' power factor (165 minimum) for competitors. On the other end, you can push 255gr LSWCs over 900 fps easily - making a decent hog round, while besting what I can do with my 625MG in .45 Colt with that bullet and stay under the .45 Colt's 14kPSI rating. Like it or not, the .45 ACP in a revolver has it's place.

Now - blued metal moonclips. I have bought and used over two hundred since my first 4" 625-8 (My 625JM is my second 4"-er.). I tossed three that first week because I was stupid... I used an emery board to 'ease' the mouths so they'd load some import ammo more easily. Of course, good brass fell out - oops. I have never bent one. I did break one of those cheesy/expensive pliers-styled demooners within a week - the Brownell's nutdriver style works great. I wouldn't think twice about carrying moonclips - properly stowed. Watch Jerry Miculek some time... he doesn't seem to have problems - and his livelihood depends on them.

I wholeheartedly endorse the 625JM as still a 'best buy' from S&W.

Stainz
 
The beauty of the .45 ACP with modern fast propellants is simple - you can go from soft to fairly warm and still stay within the 21kPSI DAAMI spec rating. On the low end, a 230gr RN/FMJ making >718 fps from a 4" 625 is easy to shoot - and makes 'major' power factor (165 minimum) for competitors.
Click to expand...

That's sorta why I got the 1917 in the first place, thought it'd be cool for revolver class in the pin shoots I was shooting at the time. But, not being able to shoot lead bullets made economical practice near impossible. I'd thought of getting a 625, but got out of the pin thing and didn't need to worry about it. If I was an avid revolver shooter and needed a momentum caliber for falling plates, pepper poppers, pins, whatever, THEN (especially if it involved reloads) I could get into a .45ACP revolver for sure. They do have their uses. Even if I shot a lot of IDPA revolver class, I'd get one for the quick reloads. I'm not worth a crap with speedloader. LOL! So, for competition, I totally agree it's a great combination. I just don't think it that practical out in the real world.

BTW, Miculek uses his in competition. I'm not sure he carries it for CCW. Me, rolling around on the ground under tractors all day, I don't need to be wearing all that hardware. I pocket carry a small 9mm or an ultra lite .38. I prefer the 9, little more power, more fire power, easier to reload, and easier to carry a reload concealed.



On the other end, you can push 255gr LSWCs over 900 fps easily - making a decent hog round, while besting what I can do with my 625MG in .45 Colt with that bullet and stay under the .45 Colt's 14kPSI rating. Like it or not, the .45 ACP in a revolver has it's place.
Click to expand...

For shooting hogs, I much prefer at least my .357 Blackhawk pushing a 180 grain XTP bullet to 1400 fps/785 ft lbs. I also have a .45 Colt Blackhawk from which I push a 300 grain bullet from a 4 5/8" barrel at just under 1200 fps. I quit totin' my .45ACP on dog hunts for hogs in favor of the Blackhawk once I got it. My load in the .45 was hot, pushed a 200 grain Lee cast SWC to 1150 fps. It was pushing the limits for the caliber. I was shooting blue dot in that load. The .45 Colt was a huge step up in hog stopping ability, which made me feel better. You see, we would chase these dogs down after they cornered a hog and one guy would stand back with the gun while the other slit the hog's throat with a filet knife. The gun was in case the dogs lost their grip on the pig. You didn't want to go tossing unaimed lead and hit a dog. You wanted a one shot kill if you had to shoot. I have a LOT more confidence in .45 Colt loaded for Blackhawk levels or .44 magnum than any .45ACP, frankly.

Normally, when I handgun hunt, I tote a Contender in .30-30 Winchester, scoped, which can put 5 shots into 3" at 200 yards laying down near 1000 ft lbs at that range. Even the .44 mag is a pop gun compared to that. I love that contender, though. Got a variety of barrels for it, but the.30-30 is my favorite deer/hog barrel. I have a .45/.410 barrel for it that pushes my 300 grain handload to a little over 1200 fps from its 7" barrel. That's slightly over 1000 ft lbs and it's not really a max load for either the Ruger OR the Contender. Lesser guns can't handle a load like this.
 
A commonly available low pressure defense round chambered in one of the classiest six

guns ever produced. Positive extraction, the fastest revo reloads or the option to use Autorim or 1/3 moonclips for carry. I don't try to conceal carry an N frame or see how MC's would be any more difficult to carry than speedloaders, but does anybody else think the 625 is a bad idea? :scrutiny:
 
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yhtomit,

The old 1917 revolvers lack the "hammer block" feature that's on all the later S&W .45ACP revolvers (and other modern Smiths, of course).

The hammer block prevents the hammer nose tip from being able to go forward, and into a primer on a loaded cartridge if the gun was dropped.

The 1917 revolvers lack this important safety feature and can fire if the back of the hammer is struck hard.


LOOK AT A MODERN S&W REVOLVER, and you'll see what I mean:

1. Unload the weapon first!

2. Close the unloaded gun

3. Under a bright light, cock the gun. The peer from above, and behind the cocked hammer, into the area in the back of the gun where the hammer usually rests.

4. In this area, notice a blued small rectangular block. This is the HAMMER BLOCK, and it drops down this low when the hammer gets cocked and remains that way when you pull the trigger. Only at these times can the trigger's nose contact the primer!

5. Holding onto the hammer securely, pull the trigger and SLOWLY lower the hammer back down under bright light.

6. Just before the top of the hammer disappears, you'll see the small rectangular face of the HAMMER BLOCK move UP into the "safe" position, once again blocking the hammer from moving forward until the trigger is fully pulled again!


A SECOND LOOK/ANGLE . . . AT AN UNLOADED GUN . . .

1. Cock the hammer, then lower it slowly with your thumb while continuing to hold down the trigger.

2. Continuing to hold down the trigger, turn the gun so you can peer into the side of the cylinder. You'll see the trigger's nose extended into the back of the area where the top cartridge and primer would normally be.

3. Still looking, slowly return the trigger to the out position and you'll see the hammer move away from the firing position and notice that the hammer cannot go back into the firing position.

However, you also won't be able to see the HAMMER BLOCK during this time as it rises to block the hammer from being forced forward again . . . until the trigger again is pulled and cocked while the HAMMER BLOCK drops back down.

Here's a diagram of the 1917:
1980z1917.jpg



Now, here's the inside of a nasty J frame I bought once, just before I cleaned it.

Note the hammer block part. You can't see it's rectangular face, but you can see its side that moves up and down in a slot to the right side of the hammer. Don't take your side plate off though, for you can see the small rectangular top of the hammer block fine by using the instructions above. Hope this helps!

Tom

2305740hammerblock.JPG
 
Two moon clips will fit in the space of one speed loader in a speed loader pouch for .45 Colt. In that respect, they're easier to tote. But, compared to a nice flat magazine in a magazine pouch, well, it's a royal PITA. That's all I'm sayin'. And, the guns are on N frames. I think J frame when I think concealed carry or at most 2.5 or 3" K frame preferably with round butt. A 3" round butt N frame (have seen 'em) would work for those content to carry a gun with that much bulk and weight, but I'll pass. That cylinder is a HECK of a lump in an IWB rig. A 1911 is no heavier and a LOT thinner. Personally, I prefer something in the 30 ounces or less range to IWB.

It's a personal choice, though. If you feel you need that much bulk and think the caliber is worth it and don't wanna tote an auto, your choice. I'm happy with .38 special or .357 magnum or 9mm, myself. Never been impressed with .45s that much, not to give up so much in ease of concealment to carry one. I carry my 33 ounce P90 now and then, though, so I know the 3" round butt N frame CAN be done, just do you wanna do it day in and day out, especially when you could be totin' a 27 ounce SP101 in .357 magnum a whole lot easier?

But, if it works for you, that's the good thing about having choices. I know from my own experience in the last dozen years of CCW, a big, heavy gun I'll take off ASAP. A pocket .38 or 9mm will stay there all day, be there if I need it. I won't forget it for that quick trip to the store for milk. :D When I do carry a bigger gun IWB, it's for a trip to the big city and my former primary becomes back up.
 
Great information in this thread!

MCgunner: a short-barrelled 625 might be some people's choice for CCW (seems a bit bulky to me), but my 5" certainly isn't any good for "concealed" under any circumstances shy of deepest winter.

However, it's a blast to shoot -- very smooth feeling and accurate. Have not tried it with lead bullets (maybe one day I shall), but I did use my first-and-only .45 reloads in it, because I believe it to be my stoutest .45.

Now for *open* carry, the 625 really might be my top choice, though.

timothy
 
MCg,

Whoever said that a 43oz 4" N-frame was a CCW? My comment re JM was that his livelihood depended on moonclips. About the Ruger .45 BH - modern versions are down-sized - derated - and not to be used with 'Ruger/Contender-only' loads. Previously, the blued BHs had Al ejector rod tubes and gripframes. Besides, my suggestion was for 'one' revolver, not two BHs and a scoped Contender with a spare barrel. As to 'hog hunting', to corner a hog with dogs, they must either be really huge dogs - or the 'hog' is a domestic piglet. Timberwolves won't attack a large hog. And... slit it's throat with a flimsy filet knife? Wasn't that on an early episode of 'Lost'? I suggest shooting them. They can break (or gore) your leg nearly as easily as your dog's - or the timberwolf's.

Let's remember the OP's question was about a 625JM. You have stated that you had a 1917 and that you were not too fond of it. I've had a 625JM for 3+ years - and still love it. YMMV.

Stainz
 
Well, I just see no merit in shooting auto pistol calibers in a revolver. Why not just shoot revolver calibers in revolvers and shoot your .45s in a gun designed to shoot 'em that is easier to carry anyway?
Click to expand...

In addition to all of the other good reasons mentioned earlier, fewer calibers in the stockpile and it's a great night stand gun. I'd rather have a DA pull at 3am than a crisp clean 4 lb. But that's just me.

I don't even have a holster for my 625 yet. I carry 1911's and have the 625 for the range and night stand. Keeps me from gearing up to load 357's. It's cheaper that way.
 
About the Ruger .45 BH - modern versions are down-sized - derated - and not to be used with 'Ruger/Contender-only' loads.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're thinking of the Vaquero? I'm unaware of any change in the Blackhawk, know the Vaq got trimmed down. Cowboy shooters are the market for the Vaq, after all. At any rate, mine's an older one.

As to 'hog hunting', to corner a hog with dogs, they must either be really huge dogs - or the 'hog' is a domestic piglet. Timberwolves won't attack a large hog. And... slit it's throat with a flimsy filet knife? Wasn't that on an early episode of 'Lost'? I suggest shooting them. They can break (or gore) your leg nearly as easily as your dog's - or the timberwolf's.
Click to expand...

You obviously have never hunted with dog Texas style. The guy I was hunting with didn't even want me to bring a firearm along, but I insisted. He doesn't carry one, most don't, reason being their dogs are trained and can be expensive and tmie consuming to replace. They don't want a bullet taking out a dog. These guys take along suture kits for the dogs and use them regularly. I know some that have used the kit on themselves. It's not a sport for the meek.

The dogs grab the thing by the ears and tail and stretch him out. The fillet knife is sharp and thin, just right for cutting the jugular/carotid. Some stab more traditionally to the heart, but this guy was a neck slitter. I was a guest on these hunts, friend of a friend. When in Rome..... Off topic, but go to the hunting forum. There's a guy that just posted about a Texas hog/dog hunt there he made. I was not real confident in my .45 ACP on a couple of those 200 plus boars we stuck, picked up the Blackhawk wanted one anyway and that was a good excuse. :D

Don't try to make the gun what it ain't is all I'm sayin'. They are GREAT for action/momentum games in revolver class. As yhtomit say, they are a hoot to shoot. They can be a home or car gun or OWB open carry where that's allowed (not in Texas, unfortunately). The OP wanted the ups and downs did he not? Well, if a 625 in .45ACP fits your wants (not necessarily needs), get it! I just don't think it's the swiss army knife of handguns. It's a very focused, special use handgun IMHO. But, I never actually NEEDED a legit use for a handgun to want it, after all.I sometimes need to justify it to myself, such as the Blackhawk purchase and the pig hunting. I'm kinda stupid that way. I should learn just to buy what I WANT. LOL. I've got 20 handguns and can't carry 'em all at once. Where's the logic in that. :rolleyes: A acknowledge my odd character flaws.

As to shooting lead and the 625, I don't know that the 625 will be afflicted with that, not sure. The 1917 was rifled rather shallow on purpose, intended to shoot ball. Lead, even hard cast, stripped the rifling. If I still wanted a 625, I wouldn't let that scare me. I doubt it'd be rifled like that 1917 was.
 
I have a 625 and 25-2. Both have seen lead with no problems at all. But 99% of the time it is Berry's from an autorim cartridge.
 
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