Revolvers chambered for semiautomatic cartridges

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I posted this on another board, got some interesting responses. With the exception of the ubiquitous 22LR and the S&W M-25 derived from the S&W M1917, none seem to have been commercial successes. They're one of those things, everybody says "Why don't they make..." then they do-and they don't sell. The S&W and Colt M1917s were, like the M1917 Rifle, emergency wartime measures that filled a critical need, in the period leading up to and after the establishment of the State of Israel they experimented with an S&W revolver in 9MM, built I think 150 prototypes, eventually they adopted the Beretta Brigadier.
Often seems to me Jeff Cooper's description of the DA semiautomatic pistol as "an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem "applies. To eliminate the need for half or full moon clips various ingenious extraction system have been developed, I have little experience with them, I have the Colt and the S&W M1917s, the moon clips work fine for me. I have a Ruger 3 screw convertible in .357/9MM, plan on getting a 45ACP for my repro Remington M1875, the ejector rod works nicely for both cartridges.
So it sounds like a fun thing, but as a bicyclist I pointed out to someone who asked why aren't there more adult tricycles/tribikes on the roads, those who have tried them have found they really don't offer anything.

I love my recumbent two wheeler but recognize it is; A) strictly a street bike; and, B) a non solution to very real problems of people with back and knee injuries wanting to ride a bicycle without pain. But it’s an oddity not a commercial success story - much like rimless cartridge revolvers.
I really like my 1917 Smith and Webley Mk.1 .455/.45ACP.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I am a bicyclist, the recumbent aficionados I know use them due to back problems. Tribikes look like a great idea but they are actually pretty tricky to ride, especially cornering.
I have the Colt and S&W M1917s, fun to shoot and the 45 Auto Rim was discontinued some years ago. I have a Ruger 3 screw-still original-357/9MM Convertible, the 9MM let net shoot some ineptly loaded 9MM reloads.

 

[gnappi]

What Cooper said, or anyone else for that matter is only of interest to shooters who value their opinions. I do not.

There are a LOT of shooters that shoot / own only one caliber. A friend who has no interest in having a bunch of calibers has 357 revolvers, lever rifles, and a semi auto pistol. It made his reloading simple.

A .45 colt rifle and revolver? Makes sense to me. .45 ACP pistol and revolver? Absolutely.

 

[defjon]

Man, I would love a Ruger birdshead vaquero in 45 acp. I always keep an eye out, most narrowly missed one a few months back at my favorite gun store.

 

[Targa]

Not my cup of tea but I think it is great the option exists. The more options we have the better.

 

[jmorris]

They are more popular than semiautos chambered in revolver cartridges...

 

[kidneyboy]

but as a bicyclist I pointed out to someone who asked why aren't there more adult tricycles/tribikes on the roads, those who have tried them have found they really don't offer anything.

Recumbent bikes/trikes might constitute 1% of the bicycling market. It's statistically less likely to see one on the road. Kind of like a Korth sighting when you are at the range.

 

[GarrettJ]

I have slowly gravitated away from DA revolvers, for the most part, toward single action Rugers.

I’m in the same boat. I see the appeal if someone wanted to consolidate to one caliber across multiple platforms. For me, I like the Ruger Convertibles. Not for ammo consolidation, but just because it’s another fun thing to shoot.

I have a Ruger black hawk in 40sw/10mm. It's nice not to have too chase after my brass.

Now that you mention it, I’ve been playing with the Blackhawks more lately as well. It’s nice not to have to go digging 10mm or .30 Carbine brass out of the snow.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

When i shoot my 10mm 1911 and carbine. I set up a catch bin next to me on the bench. If im going to shoot standing up. I have a portable gazebo. And i hang a tarp on the one end to stop the brass. Plus it's nice for shade.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I recently picked up the 10mm/40sw Blackhawk. Kind of an impulse buy I suppose.

I like the 10mm round, but as a reloader, I got sick of trying to find my brass in the far flung, often overgrown, netheregions of my local range. I sold my 1911 a few years ago because of it.

So, as I also was never really into 40sw, I had all these reloading components sitting around needing a purpose.

I bought it mainly as a toy. Something to tinker around with for my reloading endeavors. At which it excels. Reloading is almost more interesting to me than actual shooting.

I dont have to worry about OAL's or other feeding considerations. My loads dont have to cycle an action, and the warmer stuff wont batter parts. I have lots of freedom. And the best part of all... the brass never leaves my sight.

I might try using for Whitetail hunting someday too.

 

[GarrettJ]

I dont have to worry about OAL's or other feeding considerations.

With that in mind, you can work up some long-load 10mm that safely exceeds the velocities you can get at normal cartridge lengths.

It will still not be the equal of a .41 Mag, but hits somewhere in between.

Fun to experiment with.

 

[CZ9shooter]

With that in mind, you can work up some long-load 10mm that safely exceeds the velocities you can get at normal cartridge lengths.

It will still not be the equal of a .41 Mag, but hits somewhere in between.

Fun to experiment with.

View attachment 980487

Already on it it. I have a 200gr XTP load at 1.350" in the works.

Once I get the powder charge up where I want it then I gotta start looking at whether the bullets are pulling out if the cases though. I'd imagine a shallower seating depth means less grip.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

When i load long. I snug up the crimp some.

 

[CZ9shooter]

When i load long. I snug up the crimp some.

I dont feel like that is gonna help much with a simple taper crimp.

 

[mcb]

I used to load 200gr bullets to 10mm length in 40S&W cases and never had any issue with bullets pulling out, but I was only pushing them to about 850 fps. I load 200gr XTP in 10mm just a little bit (.020 inch) over normal max length for 10mm Auto and never had a pull issue at 1250 fps. A bigger heavier revolver makes bullet pull less of an issue than a lighter revolver with the same ammo.

ETA: A Lee undersized sizing dies, that sizes the brass usually .001 inch undersize might also be beneficial for mitigating bullet pull in lighter revolvers and/or hotter loads with 40S&W/10mm Auto

 

[3Crows]

Going forward, I could see auto-cartridges in revolvers making a comeback for those who may own both revolvers and auto-pistols and want to economize and streamline their ammo selection/stocking.

 

[P5 Guy]

No one makes a 38SUPER revolver?

 

[mcb]

S&W made a short run of the 627 in 38 Super. If I remember correctly Rob Leatham won the 2014 Revolver National match with a heavily modified 627 in 38 Super. He got a newly released 929 off the prize table and has used that since, I believe.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

If I remember correctly, at one point Ruger was offering the Vaquero with two cylinders, one chambered for 38-40 and one chambered for 40S&W.

This Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible is the first single action cartridge revolver I bought brand-spanky new way back in 1975. To tell you the truth, I was not interested in the ACP cylinder and asked if I could buy it for a little bit less than the sticker price of $125 with only the 45 Colt cylinder. The store owner looked at me like the stupid, young kid I was and said I had to buy the whole thing. I actually was not interested in 45ACP, I was shooting cheap 45 Colt reloads in it at the time, and never actually fired the ACP cylinder until many years later. The box is long gone but I still have the little red bag the ACP cylinder came with.






I have three S&W Model 1917s. Two of them are the Brazilian Contract.






This one left the factory in 1918. It came with an almost full box of 45ACP mounted on half moon clips, also made in 1918. The grips are incorrect, but I like them.






It is US marked.






It has the somewhat unusual GHS inspection stamp instead of the usual Flying Bomb. It also has a serrated or grooved hammer.






The only other revolver I have chambered for a semi-auto cartridge is this S&W Model 1955 Target. It is chambered for 45ACP and left the factory in 1955. This is the predecessor to the Model 25.






Regarding moon clips, I think I can say I have never used moon clips (or half moon clips) in a revolver. I ain't gonna shoot up that vintage box of ammo, and I just can't be bothered stuffing ammo into clips. Don't even have any clips. All my 45 ACP revolvers can be fired without clips, I just have to poke the empties out with a stick. Or else I load up some 45 Auto Rim. Brass is available from Starline, and the data is the same as for 45ACP.

 

[mcb]

Howdy

If I remember correctly, at one point Ruger was offering the Vaquero with two cylinders, one chambered for 38-40 and one chambered for 40S&W.

This Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible is the first single action cartridge revolver I bought brand-spanky new way back in 1975. To tell you the truth, I was not interested in the ACP cylinder and asked if I could buy it for a little bit less than the sticker price of $125 with only the 45 Colt cylinder. The store owner looked at me like the stupid, young kid I was and said I had to buy the whole thing. I actually was not interested in 45ACP, I was shooting cheap 45 Colt reloads in it at the time, and never actually fired the ACP cylinder until many years later. The box is long gone but I still have the little red bag the ACP cylinder came with.

View attachment 980764




I have three S&W Model 1917s. Two of them are the Brazilian Contract.

View attachment 980765




This one left the factory in 1918. It came with an almost full box of 45ACP mounted on half moon clips, also made in 1918. The grips are incorrect, but I like them.

View attachment 980766




It is US marked.

View attachment 980767




It has the somewhat unusual GHS inspection stamp instead of the usual Flying Bomb. It also has a serrated or grooved hammer.

View attachment 980768




The only other revolver I have chambered for a semi-auto cartridge is this S&W Model 1955 Target. It is chambered for 45ACP and left the factory in 1955. This is the predecessor to the Model 25.

View attachment 980769




Regarding moon clips, I think I can say I have never used moon clips (or half moon clips) in a revolver. I ain't gonna shoot up that vintage box of ammo, and I just can't be bothered stuffing ammo into clips. Don't even have any clips. All my 45 ACP revolvers can be fired without clips, I just have to poke the empties out with a stick. Or else I load up some 45 Auto Rim. Brass is available from Starline, and the data is the same as for 45ACP.

@Driftwood Johnson , you are an amazing wealth of knowledge on revolvers, especially the old ones, but your final paragraph above is pretty silly . Mooonclips rule! Why poke empties out with a stick? Why use a hard to find specialty case like 45 Auto Rim? 45 ACP is plentiful and moonclips for 45 ACP revolvers are cheap and available. Your cartridges all come out with a stroke of the ejector and end up in little piles of 6 for easy recovery. 45 ACP goes on and off moonclips as easy or easier than any other cartridge I have used with moonclips. Tools to speed the process up can be home-made on the cheap or bought. I have hundreds of moonclips, several moonclips tools (both home-made and bought) and still have less money invested in moonclips/tools for four revolvers than I do in 6 magazines and a magazine loader for my one 2011.

You can't hit the two second reloading with a stick and loose cartridges, but with practice you can with a moonclip feed revolver.

 

[CraigC]

Why poke empties out with a stick?

Probably because it's still easier than dicking with moon clips. Moon clips are awesome, when you're on the clock. Nothing but hassle if you're not.

When you're buying brass, .45AR is just as easy as .45ACP.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You can't hit the two second reloading with a stick and loose cartridges

Never cared much to try, to be honest.

I have two-round, three-round, and six-round moon clips. I rarely use them. AutoRim is plentiful and cheap. It can be loaded as "hot" as ACP +P or as low as .455 Webley Mk.1, and there's not ever a concern for clipping or unclipping, and if you need to use a bullet with a crimp, it does that just fine, too. Everybody's got their own way of doing things and if it works for them, then it works.

 

[mcb]

Never cared much to try, to be honest.

I have two-round, three-round, and six-round moon clips. I rarely use them. AutoRim is plentiful and cheap. It can be loaded as "hot" as ACP +P or as low as .455 Webley Mk.1, and there's not ever a concern for clipping or unclipping, and if you need to use a bullet with a crimp, it does that just fine, too. Everybody's got their own way of doing things and if it works for them, then it works.

Early the second summer I shot USPSA (running and XD-40 at the time) I got squaded with a guy running a S&W 610 at our local club match. Watching him run the stages with a revolver and keeping up with, if not beating many of the guys (including me that match) with semi-autos I was hooked. I began my search for either a 610 or a 625 and by the end of that summer I had found a smoking deal on a S&W 610 (no dash) for $520. A few years later I bought a 625 off that same guy that had gotten me into USPSA revolver division in the first place. And in 2014 I shot the USPSA revolver nationals with an 8-shot 627, the first Revolver Nationals that allowed the 7 & 8 shooter to play. Running through stages, throwing moonclips at cylinders and doing my best to embarrass the filthy bottom-feeders with the noble round-gun has been one of the more fun things I have done with a gun.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Early the second summer I shot USPSA (running and XD-40 at the time) I got squaded with a guy running a S&W 610 at our local club match. Watching him run the stages with a revolver and keeping up with, if not beating many of the guys (including me that match) with semi-autos I was hooked. I began my search for either a 610 or a 625 and by the end of that summer I had found a smoking deal on a S&W 610 (no dash) for $520. A few years later I bought a 625 off that same guy that had gotten me into USPSA revolver division in the first place. And in 2014 I shot the USPSA revolver nationals with an 8-shot 627, the first Revolver Nationals that allowed the 7 & 8 shooter to play. Running through stages, throwing moonclips at cylinders and doing my best to embarrass the filthy bottom-feeders with the noble round-gun has been one of the more fun things I have done with a gun.

---
In '79 I ran a '73 Capri 2.0L in Thunder-Class flat-track competition against 6-litre and over street-legal race cars at Seminole Raceway. I could make the turns at full throttle and pass the big, heavy V-8's who had to brake for the low-wall. Never won a race but I embarrassed the "big boys" a few times. Experienced racers in multi-thousand-dollar cars don't like being showed up by 16 year old kids in cheap German sports cars - which is how my Capri got dented up and wrecked. I got slammed into the wall a few times as a learning experience.

I also raced a street-legal Suzuki Katana 1000 DOHC on the 1/4-mile track in Bithlo against custom-built no-street machines back in '85 and won quite a few bracket runs by being precise and fast. Those were fun things to do then but they took work and that made them less fun. I've always enjoyed shooting and never wanted to turn it into work lest I stop enjoying it so much. I don't compete with firearms against anybody but myself.

Different strokes.

 

[CraigC]

I haven't heard the name "Bithlo" in years.