Revolvers for Defense. I like em but many dont. Why??

[megatronrules]

I like revolvers for defense as many of you do Im sure. I was talking with a good friend of mine last night. We got to talking about guns as always So I said I like revolvers for defense. Now autoloaders are great,I have a Glock. There is just something about the revolver though. It has advantages over an auto. It cant be throw out of battery like an autoloader, can be left loaded forever since there is nothing under strain. If it doesnt work, pull the trigger again. That is what we would do from instinct under pressure. I may not remember RACK_TAP_BANG when Im fighting for my life, lord forbid it ever comes I might not be in a posistion to implemant it even if i did remember how. Then we get to capacity. My J-Frame is 5 shots.some like Colt give you 6 rounds. I know there are 7 and 8 round guns as well. This is where the auto guys get pissed. My reply is always the same to them. "Are you gonna miss a lot" Think about this. If you dont hit him with the first 2 you need a lot more range time. Really capacity is overated. Then they say "What if there is more than one BG,say 3"? I say 2 each then reload A 158 LSWC+P is going to ruin a mans day. If there are more then 3 you probably pissed off the wrong people!
All in all joking aside I think most people would be better off with a good revolver, than a new auto they have no idea how to clear or manage in an emergency. Thats just me though. I just think its funny they come up with all these scenerios about multiple BG's so they will need 15 or more rounds. Police Officers used revolvers for years, and they never needed more than 6 rounds.I think as a regular guy 5 or 6 rounds works for me.
Well sorry for the long post. Thought I would get you're opinions here. Thanks.

 

[Old Fuff]

Some like autoloaders because that's what they see police officers carrying or on their favorite "action" TV programs. But most want the supposed advantage of "firepower" - defined to mean a lot of cartridges before it's necessary to reload. "Spray and pray" doesn't work too well with a revolver. For the record, I too own a lot of pistols but have never felt undergunned with a revolver. Say what you will, limp wristing won't stop a six-shooter like it will an autoloader.

 

[Quartus]

Hmmm. I don't suppose it is just possible there might be some good reasons why the auto has replaced the revolver just about anywhere you can name where people have to depend on them for real gunfights.

Capacity is only over-rated if you can shoot like Hollywood actors in scripted "action" scenes, and the bad guys fly across the room when hit with one of your flying leap shots. You ARE going to miss, and all the range time in world won't change that, especially if that range time is like most folks have - shooting at static targest at known ranges.

And even if you hit more than you miss, those bad guys will insist on staying right where they are a lot of the time. Just can't get them to fly across the room, somehow. In real life, it's pretty rare to get them to drop with just a couple of hits. It takes lots of lead.

Take a defensive handgun course from a qualified instructor. (Sorry, in most cases that doesn't include your local CCW or NRA instructor.) Take a course that includes realistic scenarios including multiple targets and surprises. Unless your mind is completely closed, you'll dump the revolver. (Except possibly as a backup.)

 

[Hkmp5sd]

As Twoblink would say...autoloaders look more tactical.

I remember LEO's in the 60s and 70s telling me that would not be caught dead carrying a semiautomatic handgun on patrol. Then came the S&W 59, Beretta 92 and the Bren 10 along with Maimi Vice, Die Hard, Terminator, Scarface. For many, it's the coolness factor.

Both revolvers and pistols have their pros and cons. It is the user that weighs these facts and chooses the one most appropriate for his task.

 

[buzz_knox]

Most of those instructors still teach, and occasionally carry and recommend, revolvers. These include Mike Boyle, Jim Cirillo, Jim Higginbotham, and Massad Ayoob. The revolver is only dead in the minds of those who are focussed solely on autos.

 

[dude]

revolvers = simplicity

autos are fine for lots of senarios...... but you have to train and maintain your skills

unlike LEOs, most of us will face a single (or two) bad-guy on our own turf when armed. In situations like this a revolver is more than enough firepower.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Beats me, but it doesn't change the fact that I've carried a revolver for years, and will continue to carry a revolver.

 

[braindead0]

<doning flame proof underpants>
I think the police (and military) switched because they can potentially carry more ammo, meaning poor shooters get more chances to hit the target. Due to 'equal opportunity', both police and military in many cases end up with people who can't and will never apply themselves enough to learn to shoot well.

It's very common here in Ohio to hear about 'shootouts' where 18+ rounds are fired by police (with maybe one hit).

just imo....

 

[HaveGun]

I have always been a wheelgun guy. I love my 38 spcl two inch Colts and Smiths. I can conceal them better than my semi autos. HOWEVER, I have changed to carrying Berettas and Glocks with Hi Cap Mags. I can shoot the snubbies as well as the semi autos up to 35 yards. I am concerned with reloading under stress and multiple suspects. I don't spray and pray because of the many years of revolver shooting. I was never overly concerned with multiple suspects when I was a policeman. I carried two guns and was young and bullet proof I guess. Now I carry two guns on some jobs, both with 10 rounds or more. I still love my snubbies and carry them sometimes.

 

[LWCmdr45]

It's not that I don't like revolvers, I just prefer semi-autos. Considering that a SD piece will be carried, I find that semi-autos pistols and their spare magazines are flatter and more concealable than comparably powered revolvers and their speedloaders, especially in the t-shirt weather that we Texans "enjoy" for 6-7 months a year.

Steve

 

[PATH]

SShhhh! I really have a dirty little secret. I shoot better with my revolvers than I do with my semi-autos. I like them and still primarily carry a J-frame Mod 36 every day.

 

[tbeb]

My home defense handguns are full-size semi-auto pistols. My CCW is a snubnose revolver (best suited for pocket carry, for me) because I feel a small revolver is overall more reliable than a small semi-auto. I've experienced malfunctions with both auto and revolver. If I had to choose between the two... it would be... I don't know. It's a toss-up.

 

[10-Ring]

Among the guys I shoot w/ less than 1/2 know how to properly shoot a DA revolver. They prefer the SA triggers on their semis. I guess that goes way beyond cool and enters into the "LAZY" since they're unwilling to train to use their guns properly.

 

[bountyhunter]

Megatron: you are 100% right.

"Hmmm. I don't suppose it is just possible there might be some good reasons why the auto has replaced the revolver just about anywhere you can name where people have to depend on them for real gunfights."

Revolvers fell out of favor when they were phased out of law enforcement mainly for two reasons:

1) Revolvers have no safeties and cities don't like getting sued.

2) Cops were getting the butts shot off in gunfights with people packing high-capacity handguns.

Neither apply to the typical personal defense scenario where a wheelgun is still the best friend to have. The main reason people buy autos is because they see them on TV and they are sexy.

 

[DeltaElite]

For me it is a capacity issue and my dept won't allow a revolver as our primary weapon.

Personally I would carry a Smith 58 41mag in a heartbeat if allowed.
If not the Smith 58, I would take a Smith 27 with 8 round of 357.

I carry my new Smith 640 in a pocket, replacing my Smith 342.

I love revolvers.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I wasn't much of a revolver guy until I got my magnum carry.

I own a number of revolvers, but they were all belt guns. The little Colt makes serious sense as a defensive tool, and its a good shooter. And everyone knows the .45 and the 9mm both pale in comparison to the ballistics of the .357.

Besides it's hard to find a concealment holster for a Colt New Service Army.

 

[Quartus]

Delta, I remember when the Santa Ana PD (California) banned the eeevile MAAAAAGUMs from the force. Any revolver was okay, as long as it didn't carry that evil label, "Magnum". Too much PR headache.


So a lot of Smith 25's in .45 LC got sold.


Yeah, I'd carry a .41 in a heartbeat if it came in a good semi-auto.

2) Cops were getting the butts shot off in gunfights with people packing high-capacity handguns.

Ummm. Almost sounds like one of those "very good reasons"....

Nah, couldn't be.

Due to 'equal opportunity', both police and military in many cases end up with people who can't and will never apply themselves enough to learn to shoot well.

I wish I were sure it was that simple. It would be interesting to chart the 'decline' in shooting ability vs. the dumbing down of standards. I'm wondering if police shooting has ever been very good. It sure isn't now.

 

[bountyhunter]

"2) Cops were getting the butts shot off in gunfights with people packing high-capacity handguns.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummm. Almost sounds like one of those "very good reasons"...."

Nope, that's a reason why people who are well trained might benefit from a higher capacity auto. If you want to see the reason why the vast majority of us (private citizens) should be carrying wheelguns, watch some of those police video programs where the store owner gets shot while he is pointing his auto at the robber and pulling away on the trigger (with the safety on).

 

[JeepDriver]

I love my one and only revolver. Matter of fact it's my home defence gun. Everything else I have is semi auto, but the revolver is what I keep in my night stand.

 

[PlayTheAces]

Guess it just boils down to what a person is most comfy with. For the bedroom, I've always preferred a wheel gun. I've finally settled (at least for now) on a 60. Just seems to feel right when I pick it up. How's that for a really scientific reason?

 

[Mike Irwin]

Ah, the joy of conventional wisdom and urban legend...

In the 1980s, revolvers and semi-autos were actually selling fairly close to parity in the United States.

Americans had access to a lot of good semi-autos in SA, DA, and high capacity.

They had access to a lot of good revolvers in blue and stainless steel.

Most police forces still carried revolvers for a number of reasons, including they were cheap, the training regimes were well established, officers were familiar with them, they were reliable, and no doubt that there was a bit of tradition involved.

Then, starting about 1984 as far as I can tell, things started to change.

Drugs became an increasing problem in the cities, only this time the level of violence began to escalate alarmingly.

There were a few, and I mean a FEW, highly publicized police-criminal shootouts where the criminals either used semi-auto rifles or high-capacity semi-auto handguns.

The newspapers and the gun magazines found a hook, an original one, and a VERY effective one -- "OUR POLICE ARE BEING OUT GUNNED!" -- with the unsaid implication being that the streets of America, even the small towns, were littered with the rotting corpses of cops who had shot their antiquated 6-shooters dry and were subsequently hacked into small hamburgery bits by these thugs with another catch phrase that caught on at the time, ASSAULT WEAPONS!

In short order, the gobbling heards emerged...

Gunshops started reporting sales of revolvers and single-action, single stack semi-autos coming to a virtual stand still. GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

Gobbling police commissions across the United States met to address the horrible plight of the underarmed police officer, with heavy emphasis being put on arguments that boiled down to essentially "if you're armed with a revolver, you're unarmed." GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

As all these police commissions go, so goes the gobbling public, lead by the popular newstand magazines of the day, which fanned the flames of public panic with article after article, month after month, on dead cops (Miami shootout, anyone?), underarmed cops, hyperarmed criminals, and the latest WONDERBLASTDEMONDERAZZES TRILLION SHOT HICAP SCUM SLAYER! GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

The situation got so bad that American Traitor Smith & Wesson (new reality show, Fox, are you listening?) had a circular "slide rule" to decipher the bewildering array of features, calibers, sizes, capacities, and finishes. GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

Then, enter the Black Dragon... Glock started hitting the American market in serious numbers, and made a HUGE coup... They started offering their guns to police forces across the nation at freaking bargain basement prices. Some companies complained that Glock was essentially dumping guns at below cost to police to get the public on board. Well, it worked. Glock grabbed market share at a pace that no other company could even hope to match, and the gobbling got even louder as the public HAD to have THE gun that the police were carrying to kill the bad guys! GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

If you were to read a gun magazine between 1986 and about 1992, you'd get the impression that revolvers had ceased to exist, that they had been run out to pasture as the gobbling police and public.

Police forces across the nation rearmed with high-capacity semi-autos, even small towns where the only use for a police handgun is normally to kill a cow or deer that wonders out onto the highway and gets hit.

The public, fanned into a frenzy, bought all of the high-capacity semi-autos it could lay its hands on, even in places where CCW was a fantasy.

Gun companies couldn't roll out new high-cap models fast enough to meet the public demand. The public scooped them up, even crappy ones, apparently on the theory that if it's high capacity, it must be good! GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

As can be expected through all of this, prices dramatically inflated to the public, and most of the gobbling herd got a decent gun at a high price, or a crappy gun at an outrageous price. GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE!

The real effect of all of this, though?

The gun companies made a LOT of money making the guns to feed the frenzy.

The gun magazines made a LOT of money FUELING the frenzy.

The police got new guns, which in many cases were really unneeded.

In some cases in the large cities, though, the results were closer to disasterous. Many cities that rushed to rearm their undergunned, vulnerable, and dying police forces neglected to train their officers properly, with the result being a dramatic rise in unintentional shootings. The situation was FAR worse in those cities where Glock had convinced the gobbling police commissions to take their product. Washington, DC, is a prime example. Training times were being slashed while a new weapon was hitting the streets, with the direct result being that the number of shots, and misses, per incident went SKY high, the number of unintentional shootings (not only of suspects, but of COWORKERS) rose dramatically, and the city began paying out HUGE settlements to those who were shot, or their families.

Other cities that rearmed with semi-autos saw similar jumps in those figures.

And the reason all of this started?

That drug dealers were gunning down police armed with revolvers in the thousands?

Just like most hotly hyped "media trends," it was a flash in the pan that never really existed. It made for GREAT print, though, and sold copies.

Through it all, though, there was a small, silent, voice crying out of the wilderness...

The revolver.

To hear the gun magazines talk about it, revolvers were dead, never to be seen again.

But sales of small-frame revolvers not only remained strong during this time, they actually began to rise in the early 1990s, and began to surge with the passage of the high capacity magazine ban.

Gun companies started bringing out new small frame models at a rapid pace, to the point that now there are likely more small frame revolvers being sold every year than small-frame high capacity semi-autos.

All in all, the Wonder9 or High Capacity craze was one of the most interesting marketing trends of all time, fueled largely by an incidental collusion among the general news media, firearms publications, and a gobbling, gobbling, public.

 

[DeltaElite]

Geez Mike, had to take a nap half way through that post. hehe
Very nicely and very accurately stated.

I was a rookie cop in 1990 and we had the option of taking the issue Smith 66 loaded only with 38+p loads or buying our own 9mm and having a box of ammo on our gun belts.
Well, I went with the Glock, since I was ready for daily gun battles against machine gun armed drug dealers.
Boy did I learn what a bunch of crap that was.

Anyway, like is posted earlier, we can't even carry a revolver as our primary weapon nowadays.
Give me that Smith 58 and I would be a happy camper.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Honest to God, Delta, I met a rookie cop once, a cop in a RURAL area of Pennsylvania, who was wearing a Glock 17 on his belt, and EIGHT spare magazines on his belt!

He had close to 100 rounds on him...

Wait a second...

That's well over 100 rounds!

 

[DeltaElite]

OMG Mike..... That is hilarious.
I figure my first two mags are for fighting and the last one is for firing over my shoulder as I make a "tactical retreat" aka running away.

 

[Quartus]

Nope, that's a reason why people who are well trained might benefit from a higher capacity auto. If you want to see the reason why the vast majority of us (private citizens) should be carrying wheelguns, watch some of those police video programs where the store owner gets shot while he is pointing his auto at the robber and pulling away on the trigger (with the safety on).

1. Anyone who thinks the average cop is "well trained" needs a reality check.
   
2. Anyone who carries (or keeps available) a gun for self defense, and doesn't make any effort to become well trained, is an idiot who deserves to get shot while he's "pointing his auto at the robber and pulling away on the trigger (with the safety on)".
   [/list=1]
   
   
   BTW, police officers ARE "private citizens".
   
   
   
   
   On another note, I realize that not all criminals are machine gun toting Rambo's, but just how many times do you have to be outgunned before it counts? And I realize that training is more important than the choice of weapon, but is training ALL and the gun means NOTHING?