Ricochet of a 0.25 ACP bullet

[JaviTorre]

Hello:

I have read a few opinions about the power, or lack of power, of weapons that fire .25 ACP ammunition. But I would like to know your opinion in this scenario:

Inside a car. If someone fires a .25 ACP bullet from the back seat to the front windshield:

1) Is there a reasonable probability that the bullet will ricochet down the windshield, without going through it, causing only a few cracks and bouncing inside the car twice more? Or is it almost certain the bullet to go through the glass?

2) If ricochet is reasonably likely, would we expect some deformation in the bullet or is it more likely that it appears almost intact?

I would like to know your opinions, and please, be lenient with my little knowledge about firearms.

 

[film495]

I don't know, but there are are a lot of variables at play, is the bullet jacketed, plated, or lead? If I had to guess I would say obviously it will go right through the windshield, but I am just making an assumption, this is a question I have not seen Paul Harrel discuss yet on his channel.

 

[jmorris]

1) Is there a reasonable probability that the bullet will ricochet down the windshield, without going through it, causing only a few cracks and bouncing inside the car twice more? Or is it almost certain the bullet to go through the glass?

2) If ricochet is reasonably likely, would we expect some deformation in the bullet or is it more likely that it appears almost intact?

All depends on what you are in. If you are in a Jeep CJ, it will go right on past (up or down). If you are in a 4th generation Camaro, it’s going to ricochet down towards the base.

Only things I have shot 25’s at, that had much effect on FMJ projectiles, we’re made out of steel.

 

[earlthegoat2]

my uneducated guess is if the bullet hit 25 degrees or more than from perpendicular to the windshield it will ricochet.

Many have said 22 Mag is a more effective round than 25 ACP. I tend to agree with them.

 

[CapnMac]

Don't know. Windshields are complicated as they are laminated glass and designed to resist penetrations. Side window auto glass less so.

The angles, as noted above, will all matter, too. And given that much auto glass is curved as well as angled will create more variables.

I would not like to test this, even in a junk car, given that it's likely only a meter or so of firing distance, muzzle to glass.

@JaviTorre Welcome to THR, too.

 

[JohnKSa]

The angle of incidence would be critical. Modern cars tend to have very steeply raked windshields. Vans and trucks, and some older cars can have much more vertical ones. A round like the .25ACP could ricochet off a very steeply raked windshield. Depending on what it hit, it might bounce another time or two if the ricochet took a lot of energy out of the round. Knowing the vehicle involved would help a lot.

If the question is: "Is it possible?", I think the answer is: "It could happen under the right circumstances."

 

[Bazoo]

I think that it'd ricochet if it was a steeply raked windshield, but if it wasn't, I think it'd penetrate and go clean through, but lose all its energy.

 

[JaviTorre]

Thanks to all of you. I should have clarified that I am talking about a windshield with a fairly steep angle, similar to the one in the photo.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

Thanks to all of you. I should have clarified that I am talking about a windshield with a fairly steep angle, similar to the one in the photo.

View attachment 1183858

Are you writing a piece of fiction?

There are a considerable number of variables as many have already written about and I am with most of them - I'm not sure how one would know without testing. What I do know is far too many people repeat opinions they have gleaned via the internet. .25 ACP rounds are dismissed when they should not be. I have been there when .25 ACPs were used and resulted in the desired effect. Paul Harrell has conferred that several times and the .25ACP certainly equalled the .22LR out of the little Berettas, with the bonus of greater reliability. While my primary carry is a .45ACP I am a devoted fan of the lowly .25.

 

[KevininPa]

Thanks to all of you. I should have clarified that I am talking about a windshield with a fairly steep angle, similar to the one in the photo.

View attachment 1183858

Sheesh! Terrible park job.

 

[KevininPa]

Btw, is there any specific reason behind this question. Been on this forum a long time. Gotta say, I've never seen this one asked.

 

[Show Me]

Don't test ,too loud

 

[Palladan44]

We know fairly well that bullets fired from outside in towards windshields will deflect downwards after passing through the windshield. I know it seems counter intuitive. Where as if it were a sling shot with a marble doing the same thing, it would bounce off the windshield and deflect up.

.25 ACP ain't no cap gun or bb gun.... my bet is it would ABSOLUTELY still go through your windshield and then deflect upwards after exiting out into open air. It would have likely little power left, but I think it would still go through. I know .22LR can sail right through autoglass, fired from a rifle, but I was over 100 yds away. We shot up my old jeep before doing a demo derby with it. Strategically placed shots for "science".

 

[jmorris]

Sheesh! Terrible park job.

Well, if your going to shoot it anyway…

 

[mokin]

After some research similar to what @Palladan44 describes, I have to concur. I saw .22 Long Rifle bullets penetrate a windshield even after having passed through rear window glass that had been shattered. What amazed me during that project was how much tougher windshield glass was in comparison to the other glass.

 

[TonyAngel]

Windshields are tough. Tempered and laminated these days. The .25 ACP is pretty anemic as well. I personally know of one incident where a person defending himself shot an aggressor in the forehead at the range of a couple of feet. The ball ammo penetrated the skin, followed the skull and exited the scalp. It knocked the aggressor out, but other than that and two small holes, he was fine.

My guess is that it wouldn't penetrate the windshield. Or at least, not go through it. It would likely deflect, considering the steep angle. The only advantage that a .25 has over a .22 is that it is technically more reliable due to the use of a primer. Personally, I'd take a .22 over a .25 any day.

 

[JohnKSa]

I should have clarified that I am talking about a windshield with a fairly steep angle, similar to the one in the photo.

I could see getting a ricochet from a windshield like that with a low-powered round like the .25ACP. I could see the round bouncing off some stuff inside the car, but after coming off the windshield and bouncing off a couple of other surfaces in the car, I wouldn't expect it to have much energy left.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

... The only advantage that a .25 has over a .22 is that it is technically more reliable due to the use of a primer. ...

I have read that Browning was asked to design a centerfire cartridge that when fired from a 2 inch barrel would match ballisrics of a .22 Long Rifle cartridge fired from a 2 inch barrel.
The advantages of .25 ACP over .22 LR is that the cartridges can take rougher handling and centerfire primers are more reliable than rimfire priming.

 

[Palladan44]

Windshields are tough. Tempered and laminated these days. The .25 ACP is pretty anemic as well. I personally know of one incident where a person defending himself shot an aggressor in the forehead at the range of a couple of feet. The ball ammo penetrated the skin, followed the skull and exited the scalp. It knocked the aggressor out, but other than that and two small holes, he was fine.

My guess is that it wouldn't penetrate the windshield. Or at least, not go through it. It would likely deflect, considering the steep angle. The only advantage that a .25 has over a .22 is that it is technically more reliable due to the use of a primer. Personally, I'd take a .22 over a .25 any day.

I'm still going to give the 25 ACP the advantage here over a .22.
It's pretty well known, at least to me that a 40 grain 22LR fired from a 2" barrel does about 850fps. A 25 ACP sends a 50gr bullet the same velocity.
22LR are soft lead, or thin copper plated lead at best. 25 ACP utilizes a real thick Hardball type copper jacket......
My $ says the 25 would sail right through, I'll bet the 22 would still too.
The bullets probably have similar sectional densities.

 

[WestKentucky]

I’m going to guess that the 1st shot breaks the window as it deflects down off of the windshield. With the window broken additional rounds would likely pass through.

I have recounted a story a former coworker told of a gnarly scar on his chest. Rough guy, but great guy, heavy on the rough. As he told the story he was in bed with a pretty brunette when her husband showed up with a pistol. He thought he was a dead man either way so he didn’t slow down on the gal and very quickly took 8 rounds of 25acp in the chest. From bad breath distance the bullets lodged in the breastbone, and he drove himself to the ER. I have seen the scar, and I believe every bit of the story except that the gal was pretty. If it won’t poke through the breast plate at 5 ft then it’s not poking through tempered double pane glass at the same distance given that the angle is fairly steep.

 

[Conelrad]

One of my friends fired a baby Beretta at an inflated car tire from maybe 20', it bounced off and whizzed past us...

A science experiment, of course.

D

 

[armoredman]

Wasn't that in a movie, Angel or something like that?
An old movie does cover window glass, Deadly Weapons, think that dates from the mid 80s. The first half was goofy, shooting water jugs, but then it gets far more interesting.

 

[bangswitch]

Hello:

I have read a few opinions about the power, or lack of power, of weapons that fire .25 ACP ammunition. But I would like to know your opinion in this scenario:

Inside a car. If someone fires a .25 ACP bullet from the back seat to the front windshield:

1) Is there a reasonable probability that the bullet will ricochet down the windshield, without going through it, causing only a few cracks and bouncing inside the car twice more? Or is it almost certain the bullet to go through the glass?

2) If ricochet is reasonably likely, would we expect some deformation in the bullet or is it more likely that it appears almost intact?

I would like to know your opinions, and please, be lenient with my little knowledge about firearms.

This sounds like a Saturday night science project to be carried out in the back parking lot at the local beer hall. My thoughts are, it depends.

Depends on how big the car is (are you shooting from the back seat of a Honda Fit or the back seat of a 500 Mercedes)? Depends on whether it is a straight-on shot or at an angle, and I mean angular to the general plane of the windshield like left to right and not straight ahead. Obviously the windshield is angled top to bottom with somewhat of a curvature. Depends on the spot where the bullet strikes (dead center, near one edge, etc.) Even though muzzle energy is similar to a .22, the BC is less and the bullets don't have the aerodynamics to maintain velocity as well as a .22LR. Meaning, a small difference in distance makes a bigger difference in delivered energy. .25 Auto is a very short range SD round.

As already stated .25Auto is roughly equivalent to .22LR in energy. Slightly heavier bullet, slightly lower MV, depending on the particular ammo, but pretty close. I could say with certainty you'd need a new windshield, but whether it penetrates or ricochets I wouldn't swear to either way. My best guess is that it would embed in the windshield but not pass through on a modern car, and if it ricocheted most of the energy would be spent as the glass would absorb a fair amount of the energy. The greater the angle at which it strikes, the greater the chance of a ricochet that retains enough energy to still do harm if it hits an occupant.

As for bullet deformation, I think it would deform whether it penetrates or bounces off. Certainly a soft point or JHP would deform, but even a FMJ would suffer some remodeling, if no more than a small flat spot.

 

[jmorris]

One of my friends fired a baby Beretta at an inflated car tire from maybe 20', it bounced off and whizzed past us...

A science experiment, of course.

D

My Father still has a 32 ACP FMJ bullet that he caught intact when it came back and hit him after bouncing off a tree trunk he had hung a target from.

I also remember a derringer side match at a SASS match (no power factor required) the “target“ was 3/8” plywood shot at a few feet. At the buzzer two quick shots and the RO was on the ground. First one bounced off the plywood then hit him in the family jewels, he hit the ground almost as fast.

 

[243winxb]

25 acp would have more deflection then larger cartridges. If bullet makes it thru the windshield at all.

Hornady. said- " Bullets in .22 caliber generally have deflection angles 3 to 4 times greater than .30 caliber bullets because they are significantly lighter."

I have been trying to sell this 25 acp for years. Cant get $100 for it. That tells me a lot.