Rifle optics upgrade

[I6turbo]

... There are two different reticles available the MRAD Long (200344) Distance and BDC (200338), I prefer the BDC as it appears cleaner and less busy to my eye.

There's also a 3rd reticle. There's the LRMOA (200344), the E1 Ballistic Plex (200338) and the "classic" Ballistic Plex (200349). The Ballistic Plex reticles being sold at bargains on GB are the 200349. All of my Fullfield scopes are the classic Ballistic Plex, but I'd like to try the E1 Ballistic Plex. The E1 reticle is somewhat similar to the Weaver EBX which I have in the Grand Slam 4-16x44 and like a lot.

 

[kmw1954]

I have a different view of why I like scopes with nice, clear optics that are pleasant to the eye to sight through. It's not about how much the gun is worth. It's about my shooting enjoyment. My eye can't tell if I'm shooting $100 Savage Rascal, or a $3,000 Anschutz. .

And that is why I question my need for a different scope. The KonusPro 275 that came on the gun is clear, brite and is easy to acquire a sight picture thru it. I also like the BDC reticle that is one it.. At this point I have only shot it out to 100 yards. as far as I can tell it is accurate and holds zero.

Now being a new rifle shooter with not a lot of experience with scopes I really couldn't tell you the difference between good and excellent at this time.

I did find that the last outing after about 1.5hrs I started to loose focus on the target. The reticle would stay clear but I would have trouble focusing on the target. Later that day I looked thru it again and all was well so I don't know if it was me getting fatigued or if it was due to the scope. Which makes me believe I should try shooting it some more before I go making changes.

 

[BigBL87]

NOTE that there are two reticles available in this scope on GB. The excellent (IMO) Ballistic-Plex, and the Long Range MOA. I'm only interested in the Ballistic-Plex myself. The LRMOA is way too busy to suit me. YMMV.

Definitely a personal thing, I LOVE the LRMOA. I'd actually prefer a reticle like that on every rifle if I could manage that, but swapping all those out at this point would be more trouble than its worth, haha. I'd definitely replace the Mueller APV (which is a decent scope in its own right) on my Savage Mark II FV with a Burris Fullfield E1 w/ LRMOA if I were to get one at a good price.

 

[BigBL87]

I did find that the last outing after about 1.5hrs I started to loose focus on the target. The reticle would stay clear but I would have trouble focusing on the target. Later that day I looked thru it again and all was well so I don't know if it was me getting fatigued or if it was due to the scope. Which makes me believe I should try shooting it some more before I go making changes.

My guess would be fatigue since you were fine later. Sometimes nicer scopes can reduce the fatigue on your eyes, but not sure how big of a difference it would make.

I'm bad about always wanting to upgrade scopes on my rifles, the only rifle that has the scope it ORIGINALLY had when I got it is my Savage Mark II with its Mueller APV, and even that I'd upgrade for the right deal. I just get so into gear, specs, etc., but I probably (like you mention) should shoot them more before I go swapping things. I'm already thinking about replacing the scope on my .243 Axis and I haven't even shot it yet.

 

[LoonWulf]

Better glass is never wasted money.......

weird to be saying that.....I used to be on the receiving end of that comment.....


Oh as a note Ive got a Simmons ATV, the forerunner to the APV if what I've read is true. Its a surprisingly nice scope. Mine is on my 457, and besides not having the adjustments I WANT, its plenty good enough to stay there till I can step up to the 350 range.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I am quite happy with the ff2 4.5-14x42 ballistic plex reticule. Spent several hours behind it with no fatigue, shooting at 14x, distance 300 meters. It's on my rem 700, just shot a spike buck on Sunday with it. It's real nice glass, bought it at sportsmans warehouse for 189.00.

As far as it goes it's better to have good glass on an inexpensive rifle, cheap, than a cheap scope on an expensive rifle. You can't hit what you can't see well. I wouldn't discount your axis. I gave mine away, to help a new rifleman get quality trigger time. My axis out shoots my m11 in the same caliber, it's also the one I shot at 550 yds.

Sportsmans warehouse has ff2, ff IV and the e1 models including a 2.5-10 sf, 3-9, and 4.5-14 any of which would suit your needs for many years.

 

[Skylerbone]

The Konus that is one the gun now sells for around the $100.00 range so I am assuming this would be a huge step up. I have also looked in the $300/$350.00 range again at the Burris, Vortex and Leupold offerings just not certain this gun is deserving of a higher end scope

Purpose should always dictate gear but it’s seldom true. I would gladly trade the scopes I have at present for scopes better suited of better quality. My age old dilemma is whether to improve by measure or leaps and bounds.

Assuming you do not own a second rifle, the necessity or benefit of an “upgraded” scope in the same price and quality range is, IMO, money wasted. Save for a second rifle. When you’ve socked away $600 for that, eschew that purchase and revisit your scope dilemma and budget for some Burris Signature rings. Then you may assess whether that scope ought to top your Axis or if selling your current combo for a different rifle is worthwhile.

I’ll throw in the name Sightron for good measure.

 

[kmw1954]

Skylerbone I believe we are following the same line of thinking.
This gun was purchased used as an entry level venture and is fulfilling that role so far. I have learned that I enjoy rifle shooting and also enjoy this caliber. I have already learned a bunch about reloading for bottlenecks and am now learning about optics. I still do not fully understand yet how good or how poor this gun and scope are as I have no experience to compare it against.. What I do know is that I would like to try a higher power scope in the 12 to 16X range and that the reticle type plays a big part in my comfort. I have learned that I do not like heavy duplex or the very busy Christmas tree of some of the tactical scopes. Right now I find those distracting.

So I believe there is room for improvement for this Konus scope the question is how much to spend before like you say considering and upgrade to the gun as well.

 

[Skylerbone]

Honestly you need a compelling bargain within your range to make it a worthwhile buy. Loon and I, along with others bought various Bushnell Nitro scopes at huge savings a few months back but most of the remaining bargains in those top out at 10x.

There are still some amazing deals but they range between $700-$1,200 dollars. A nice scope can stay with you even if a rifle heads down the road. If you just cannot wait at some point, consider torque limiting tools for installation to protect your investment. I have some mid-priced scopes ranging to the $1k price point but only a few rifles as costly.

 

[LoonWulf]

Those Nitros were a good deal, I'm bummed both of mine had issues....well I'm not REALLY bummed I guess, they did replace the last one with a Forge which I'm really digging.
Im actually really happy with a few of my recent optics acquisitions. The Athlon Argos 2 HMR is nice, the Forge is really nice, and the Burris 4.5-14x32 timberline is surprisingly nice....That one deserves to get put on a gun I use more than my BAR.....
Im looking forward to playing with the second Argos HMR and the Sightron S-tac I have on order....

 

[kmw1954]

So with complete honesty I have been eyeing a few other Varmint barreled 223's. One a Rem700, one Ruger 77 and one Savage 12, These are all listed at a LGS in their used inventory but I haven't gone to look yet.

Still looking at the Vortex and Burris scopes in either the Diamondback line or the FullField E1 such as the 200338 model.

 

[brasscollector]

I don't know what your brand preference is but I would definitely take a good look at that model 12 myself.
I would avoid the vortex diamondback line. I have a 4-12 tactical and it's nothing I'd want to look through for any extended period of time. Of those two choices I'd buy the Burris.
Right now I'm looking into some of the Athlon scopes, midway has them on sale w/ free shipping if your in the market.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, any of them are an upgrade over Konus, or virtually any other scope that comes with a rifle as a package. I have a bunch of Burris scopes and would also say they are measurably better than the Vortex Crossfire or Diamondback. Vortex does not become an equal or a tier above until you get to the Viper and/or Razor, scopes not made in China. Not all optics made in China are crap but 99.99% of the crap is made in China. I have a Viper 4-16x and a Razor 5-20x and they are great but are way over your price range. The good news is that there are a lot better options in your price range today than there was 20-30yrs ago. The lower to mid range Leupold scopes are also excellent for their price point and made in the US.

I will also take quality over magnification any day of the week.

...or the FullField E1 such as the 200338 model.

I have one of those too and would choose it over the lower end Vortex offerings.

.....just not certain this gun is deserving of a higher end scope.

One has nothing to do with the other. The scope is not for the rifle. The scope is for YOU. While that cheap Konus might 'look' fine right now, it won't when it fails internally. IMHO, durability is dead first on the list of advantages of better optics. Clarity and light transmission are great and should come with it but durability is first and foremost. YOU deserve quality glass, regardless of what the rifle cost.

 

[kmw1954]

IMHO, any of them are an upgrade over Konus, or virtually any other scope that comes with a rifle as a package.

YOU deserve quality glass, regardless of what the rifle cost.

I don't believe the Konus came as a package when new. I believe it was an add on afterwards but did come with the gun as used. I certainly could use it until it breaks or until I improve to where it makes a difference. Then as an avid fisherman I can't see where putting a $300.00 reel on a $50.00 rod makes sense either. I do own and use both but not together.

Also agree with the quality over magnification statement and also believe that any of the 4-12/4-16 that I am looking at would be a boost in quality over what is on there. Just seeing that for the almost the same cost of a Burris 3-9 or a Vortex 3-9 I can move to the higher magnification.

 

[cdb1]

Just seeing that for the almost the same cost of a Burris 3-9 or a Vortex 3-9 I can move to the higher magnification.

Take a scope with 9X magnification and one with 14X that have the same price tag. The scope with 9X will have better glass as a rule.

 

[kmw1954]

Take a scope with 9X magnification and one with 14X that have the same price tag. The scope with 9X will have better glass as a rule.

Then the true question is "Just how much better?" Slightly better, significantly better?

 

[CraigC]

I don't believe the Konus came as a package when new. I believe it was an add on afterwards but did come with the gun as used. I certainly could use it until it breaks or until I improve to where it makes a difference. Then as an avid fisherman I can't see where putting a $300.00 reel on a $50.00 rod makes sense either. I do own and use both but not together.

Also agree with the quality over magnification statement and also believe that any of the 4-12/4-16 that I am looking at would be a boost in quality over what is on there. Just seeing that for the almost the same cost of a Burris 3-9 or a Vortex 3-9 I can move to the higher magnification.

Look at it like this, I'd MUCH rather have a $300 reel on a $50 rod than a $50 reel on a $300 rod. If you're going to spend on one and not the other, you'll get full benefit from the expensive reel, where a cheap reel will leave you hanging. Been there, done that. Same with scopes. In this case, the budget priced rifle, like the budget rod, can be more easily trusted to do its job without fanfare. The cheap scope, like the cheap reel, not so much and it's usually not something you can see coming. Sure, you can leave the Konus on the rifle until it goes tits up but can you afford it to fail in the field? A good scope is not a luxury but cheap insurance.

If I were you, I'd get the Burris 4.5-14x and not look back. It's a bargain, bordering on absurdity.

I'm going to be hunting with my Ruger American .450 this season. The Leupold 1-4x it wears cost as much as the rifle and I have no problem with that.

 

[kmw1954]

Examples;
Burris Fullfield II 3-9X40 = $159.00 at Opticsplanet.com
Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14X42 = $189.00 same place
Burris Fullfield II 6.5-20X50 = $219.00

I don't see those as significant price increases and the same can be found with the Fullfield IV line.

 

[Skylerbone]

For me the sub-$200 category is where I lived for the first 25 years as a shooter. I knew there was better, but I only believed what my younger eyes showed me. Even when I promised myself there would be no more half measures I’ve been compelled of late by scopes in the $200-$300 range as being good enough for their hunting purpose.

If you’re not compelled to wait, I think $350 is where I draw the distinction between what works just fine and what begins to move me. Meopta glass at a bit more, zeiss base models, VX-3i. Now those aren’t for WOW magnification models which often run far more but similar thresholds apply.

If you’re wanting 16x or more on the top end then you really ought to consider budgeting $550 as a minimum or you’ll simply be headed sideways. I’ve looked through and sat behind a Konus Pro which despite its small price tag was very good at its price point. Not Sightron SIII good by any means but far better than I expected.

 

[kmw1954]

CraigC I believe we are on the same page only in my case the gun is just for punching targets so a failure in the field isn't a big issue as I am not worried by that once in a lifetime shot getting away. But I can appreciate quality. This past summer while working at the 300yard rifle range I have seen a number of expensive scopes fail as well.

As for rods and reels I would prefer just the opposite. With a good rod I can control the cast and feel the bumps much better.

 

[CraigC]

For me the sub-$200 category is where I lived for the first 25 years as a shooter.

Me too! It's only really been the last five years that I've spent much more than that on optics. For most of my adult life, "high end" for me meant $400 Leupold VXIII's.

CraigC I believe we are on the same page only in my case the gun is just for punching targets so a failure in the field isn't a big issue as I am not worried by that once in a lifetime shot getting away. But I can appreciate quality. This past summer while working at the 300yard rifle range I have seen a number of expensive scopes fail as well.

As for rods and reels I would prefer just the opposite. With a good rod I can control the cast and feel the bumps much better.

Then it's really just a matter of preference and convenience. You can also afford to wait for the best deal. However, were it me, I'd still go for the Burris E1. It's also side focus and that's not something you see too often in its price range.

I guess experience plays a huge role here too. I've had both cheap scopes and cheap reels give it up at the worst possible time. Same issue, they work fine until they don't.

 

[kmw1954]

The one I an really leaning towards is this one model #200338 next would be 200349

https://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-fullfield-riflescope-4-5-14-42mm.html

I have seen then under $200.00 but not recently. Also like this one though it is much more money

https://www.opticsplanet.com/burris...m-obj-26-6-5-ft-100-yds-fov-1-tube-matte.html

 

[BreechFace]

Sounds to me like your scope is working for you currently. Put the $250 in a safe and forget about it wait until you are outshooting your scope and by that time maybe you have another $250 to put with it and get into the best value price range on optics which is in the $500-600 price range. This price range is where you want to be for your upgrade in my opinion.

It just seems like a waste of money as you already have a scope that is working for you and the scopes being suggested while good probably aren’t enough better to warrant spending another $250 when one could save and really get an upgrade.

You know the whole delayed gratification thing...

 

[Obturation]

The 4.5-14x looks like a good deal.
From the provided pictures of it, looks ideal for a Wisconsin guy:

.

I had to.


I've never bought "good" glass, best I own is a cabelas branded 3-9x on a marlin 336 so I don't have much experience with higher end scopes. I have an eotech with a vortex magnifier on an AR and that combo was expensive to me and it works pretty well - not a great comparison though.

Don't know if vortex still sells their scratch & dent scopes cheap but I think they used to , they aren't too far away.

I'm thinking about a 1-4x scope for my 77/357 and still considering different options, it's easy to spend a lot , looks like you're on the right track.

 

[brasscollector]

Don't know if vortex still sells their scratch & dent scopes cheap but I think they used to , they aren't too far away.

Any scratch and dent / warranty repaired vortex optics end up here, or so I was told. I've bought more than a few from them in the past. Shipping has always been quick and they have always left me satisfied.