Rifle Primer Types vs Velocity Comparison

[lencac]

Hi Guys:
I've always wondered how different primers would affect a given load.
I've also seen many different things said about the subject so I've set-up a little comparison to actually see.
I know this isn't an exhaustive study, however I think it will provide some very good insight.
Ok, here's what we are doing.
I am using for the test rifle an excellent condition 1933 Izzy Mosin Nagant 91/30 with a PE scope mounted on it.
The loads consist of 5 rds. each of Hornady 174gr. .3105 dia. FMJBT on top of 51.0 gr. of IMR 4064.
The primer selection is a pretty good range consisting of CCI 200, CCI BR, Federal Large Rifle Magnum and Winchester Large Rifle Magnum.

The chrony will be set-up @ 15-20 ft. from the muzzle.

Any guesses as to the difference in velocity from primer to primer?

I should be able to conduct this comparison this weekend.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=735560


to be continued ......................

 

[Reloadron]

The loads consist of 5 rds. each of Hornady 174gr. .3105 dia. FMJBT on top of 51.0 gr. of IMR 4064.

The Hornady 9th edition loading manual suggest a Maximum load using IMR 4064 of 45.7 grains. That being for the Hornady 174 grain FMJBT. Your load seems a little toasty, not saying it is bad just seems a little hot for the bullet you have.

I wouldn't expect to see much difference between the CCI 200 Large Rifle and CCI BR 2 Large Rifle Bench Rest, the latter being known for better consistency but I don't believe any hotter. I don't understand the magnum primers being in the mix but they may yield slightly higher velocities for the same given powder charge. Rumor control always said the Federal primers were hotter. I never noticed if they were. Where did the load data come from?

So choot em and let's see what the chronograph says about things.

Ron

 

[lencac]

Hi Reload:
I'm curious to see for myself. Sometime ago, last 6 months or so I read an article that was doing the same thing. The results were more difference than you would think. Like approaching 100 fps. difference between standard primers and magnum. I think they show noticeably higher pressure spikes.

Yep, so let's see what gives. I think the long barrel of the Mosin will make for a good test rifle.

 

[Reloadron]

Choot em up!

I was going to mention maybe 100 or so FPS between the two (standard & magnum) my best guess between 50 and 100 FPS. I guess we shall see.

Ron

 

[Andrew Leigh]

On average with my .375 I get 27fps between CCI200 and CCI250.

 

[lencac]

Hey Ron:
You,re right. I misspoke. It's 51.0gr. of A 4350. Must have been thinking about a different load.

A bit slower powder. Also trying to see if I can generate some decent velocities without overworking everything.
I think with the right combo 2700+ fps is easily doable with the 174 gr. FMJ's and an appropriate slow enough powder to use the long barrel.
It's a freakin Mosin Not the most accurate but it is strong like the bull.

If I remember correctly I do think the article mentioned the Federal Magnum primers were the hottest.

 

[Nickb45]

I'm just impressed you found all those different primers in stock!

Curious to see the results.

 

[Swampman]

IIRC the Federal 215 primer was developed for the .378 Weatherby because none of the primers available at the time were powerful enough to provide consistent ignition.

I'd guess that the 215 will give the highest velocities (and pressures).

I didn't cross reference your load data, but I'd recommend that you perform this experiment with a starting level load due to the pressure spikes you may get with the hotter primers.

As long as all the variables other than primers are the same, you should still get valid data regardless of the charge level you select.

 

[lencac]

Hi Swamp:
I agree with you on every point.
However, I'm going to run the 51.0gr. of A4350. That's only a middle of the road load in the new Sierra manual, 48.9 to 52.4gr. The manual says the test rifle is a Mosin M-44 carbine with a 16" barrel getting only about 2350 fps.
The 91/30 has a 28.5" barrel. Slow powder, loooooooooooooooooong barrel, makes bullet go fast.
It's a Mosin. I don't think a person can blow-up a Mosin without going to extraordinary measures.
I think even 2800 fps is doable without being extreme in any way.
I was getting in the 3000 fps range from 147 gr. light ball with another 91/30.

Heck, with 61.5 gr. of Reloder 22 and Sierra 190 gr. MK in my 27", 30.06, Gruning Precision Tactical Remy 700 with CCI Bench Rest primers .......... 2900 fps. walk in the park

This load I will say leaves no room in the case with the bullet seated. Powder comes up to the bottom of the neck.

 

[Reloadron]

Glad the powder type is resolved, had me a little concerned. Should be interesting to see how things go. I had a few experiments in line for this past summer but a surgery slowed me down so next summer. Getting a little cold up here for me and the outdoor range.

Ron

 

[lencac]

Primer Test Results

Hi Guys:
Well, here is the unremarkable results.
The format was I shot in round robin style. One rd. from each primer type shot in each session. I didn't shoot all 5 from one group then 5 from the next group. One rd. from each category per cycle. That way each shot was similar to the other types so one group wasn't shot from a cold barrel and one group from a hot barrel. All readings in feet per second measured at 20 ft. in front of the muzzle.

CCI 200/ CCI BR/ Federal Magnum/ Win Magnum
1st 2380 2385 2425 2452
2nd 2406 2421 2436 2436
3rd 2409 2412 2448 2438
4th 2380 2443 2426 2436
5th 2401 2411 2469 2424
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVERAGE
2395 2414 2440 2437
Results were predictable but not as much difference as I thought there would have been.
I saw almost no difference in POA vs POI

 

[ngnrd]

Not too surprising regarding the average velocities, but I do find it odd that the bench rest primers have the largest variation of the primers tested... maybe just too small of a sample size from which to draw such conclusions.

 

[lencac]

Good observation. If you look I think 3 of the 4 groups have one round that doesn't quite fit in. Keep in mind I'm using a chrony made in china.
I wouldn't get another one.
Although averaging the 5 shot groups vs. 3 shot groups with the high and low deleted the average fps only changes a couple fps.
Overall, believe it or not my favorite per this test would be the Win Magnum.