Rifle Question: Robinson XCR vs AR15 w/POF piston...

[Zangetsu]

I think the title says it all, but I'll preface it a bit; I'm looking into getting a new rifle, and am quite impressed with what I've seen from Robinson and POF, yet I only have enough cash and desire for one. I've done a good amount of poking around to see what I can find out about the XCR, but the only thing I've heard about the POF piston ARs is that, "they get boring to shoot because they never jam." I'll take that complaint any day of the week. Ideally, I suppose I'd love to hear from someone who has both who could let me know what they thought when they compared the two. Primarily, I'm concerned with the eye relief on the XCR, and as for the POFs, I suppose I'd just like to hear some first hand accounts from people who have had the pleasure.

Thanks for reading!

 

[TL1234]

I've done a lot of research on this topic because I don't particular like the idea of cleaning a normal DI system, nor do I trust it that much despite what the DI apologists say.

I have no direct experience, but from what I've heard the LWRC ARs are far better than POF. As for the XCR, I have heard nothing but positives about it, except for the fact that it is heavier than an AR.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Outlaws]

I have no direct experience, but from what I've heard

:banghead:

 

[Zangetsu]

That reminds me.....I forgot to mention that I was curious how the POF uppers stacked up against the LWRC ones...

 

[PPGMD]

POF vs LWRC, between the two the differences are minor, LWRC uses a dedicated spring to push the piston back in position while POF relys on the bolt carrier to push it back into position. LWRC only chromes their bolt and carrier while POF NP3's all of the internals in the upper.

LWRC has slightly better rails (I like the lower profile), though some claim that POF rails are stronger. POF has a piston position that allow you to reduce the cycle rate for full auto suppressed fire, LWRC doesn't and would have to rely on a heavier buffer or other cycle rate reducers.

That being said I own a 9.25" POF upper, and I like it a lot. I have four other POF owners nearby me, they all like their rifles. I know two LWRC owners and they like their rifles just fine also.

My not quite complete (still missing some stuff like iron sights) POF(upper)/CMMG(lower) Rifle:

 

[SteyrAUG]

I passed on the POF and will get one of the announced 416s when HK goes into production.

Couldn't be happier with my XCR. Don't know about them being heavier than a AR-15, actually seems lighter to me.

 

[Zangetsu]

I JUST reminded myself of something I heard YEARS ago from someone who had a piston AR...is it still true that they vent gas in such a way that makes the hand guard/rails filthy?

 

[Nolo]

I looked on the LWRC website, especially the section on their piston system. It looks good, but has one major problem:
They vent all of the gases into the handguard. This means that the handguard gets really hot after long firing sessions and it also means that the handguard gets dirty.
Of course, I'd rather have a dirty handguard than a dirty chamber, and you can make your handguards out of heat-resistant material, but still.

 

[TL1234]

Outlaws, give me a freaking break. At least I was upfront about saying it is "what I've heard." How much you wanna bet that half the ninjas around here share opinions while having absolutely zero personal experience on a subject, and then never say anything about it?

Since when has it been SO WRONG to share what we've heard? Lighten up.

 

[LoadedDrum]

Primarily, I'm concerned with the eye relief on the XCR,

The way the reciever is set up on the XCR, the top rail is brought closer to the shooter for the same length of pull relative to the AR15. This allows the shooter to bring the irons/optics closer to their face rather than the shooter having to "hunch" towards irons/optics. It is great for people who like to shoot their AR's NTCH or have short eye relief scopes. It lends to a more comfortable shooting positon. That plus the fact that the stock is lower relative to the rail means you don't bend your neck as much to pick up the sights. As far as long relief scopes go, one of my XCR's has a TR21 mounted on a Larue LT-104. On a conventional flat top AR15 there would not be adequate eye relief (hence the Larue SPR-E mount) but with the full length rail of the XCR, I just moved the mount forward to get the proper eye relief.

 

[Click Click Boom]

Buy both. The XCR first then the P.O.F. They both are great rifles

 

[HorseSoldier]

but the only thing I've heard about the POF piston ARs is that, "they get boring to shoot because they never jam."

You could run a search here and over on The Firing Line (if you're on that site as well). I don't own a POF, nor have any direct experience with them, but there have been some threads concerning them that were not so glowing, primarily comments coming from people in tactical rifle/carbine classes the like where the POF uppers failed under sustained use. This may be an issue POF has fixed (they're on their 2nd or 3rd generation piston upper, if I'm not mistaken), or may reflect a few bad weapons that everyone hears about endlessly on the internet, but I'd think it's worth looking into before spending the $$$ on one.

 

[lunaslide]

I picked up a XCR a few weeks ago and I'm quite happy with it. It is very similarly configured to my RRA flatop AR and the weight feels about the same.

XCR
HBAR 16" barrel
built in midlength quad rail
Tango Down pistol and vertical grips
Aimpoint Comp M4
Surefire 660

AR
HBAR 16" barrel
Daniel Defense 9" (midlength) rail system
Tango Down pistol and vertical grips
Aimpoint Comp M3
Surefire 660

One comment from my rifle league friends was that it's very loud compared to others running their ARs, however, during the first 300 round break in period, Robinson recommends running with the gas system wide open (position 4) and using hot ammo like American Eagle. I've been running Q3131A. That might be contributing to the loudness.

Otherwise the rifle has a comfortable natural firing position, satisfying and solid feel to the action upon firing and very exuberant extraction.

As far as the POF systems, all things considered, I'd rather go for a system that was designed from the start as a gas piston system than bolt one on to a DI. I've no doubt that some wizbang engineers can make it happen, but I'm following my own prejudices on this one.

A side note: I'm a BIG fan of Sig. The company, their handguns, their bolt guns and the original 550 series. I own 5 of their handguns, a SIG SHR 970 in .270 Win and a Sauer SSG 3000. I've shot the 551 and 552 a number of times. I've been looking forward to a domestic 550 style rifle for 10+ years now. But comparing the 556 and the XCR, it just seemed to me that the latter was better thought out and better executed. The ergonomics are better, the gas system more sophisticated and suitable for suppressor use, and I'll even be able to swap calibers on the XCR and try out the 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for under $600 (haven't decided which yet ) I'll still get the 556 eventually, but I'm hoping that they make some modifications to bring it more in line with the 551 I know and love.

 

[everallm]

Zangetsu,

Pop over to www.xcrforum.com and ask the question there, there are some savvy people and I would not be suprised if a couple already have both.......