I just got my new AR and bought some LC 62 gr ammo. It is shooting OK but I know it can do better. The rifle has 1:8 twist. I am going to reload the LC brass. I have heard that Sierra 77 and 69 HPBT would be a good selection to reload due to the twist. Also if the 77 gr is the bullet is there any problems feeding with the magazine. Does anyone have any knowledge of these 2 bullets or recommend any others. I try to stay with Sierra. I sure would appreciate any feedback.
Rockriver 24" Varminter
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dmftoy1
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69 hpbt, 23.3 grains of H335, COL of 2.255 and you'll be good to go. (Feeds without any problems) You can even go longer on the COL but that's where I'm loading them. I don't know about the 77's but the 69's work like a dream in my 2 RRA's and my Bushy.
Have a good one,
Dave
Have a good one,
Dave
Personal experience with my RRA has it doing fine with magazine length rounds with rds meant to be loaded as such. I have had great accuracy with VLD design bullets too. The 75gr VLD from Berger, the 75gr Amax, and 80gr Nosler CC are all excellent performers loaded right neat the lands.
I would think you will have much better experience with target grade bullets vs military surplus bullets.
Seperate the cases by head stamp year. Prep the cases by removing the primer pocket crimp, deburr the flash hole, and trim to a consistent length.
I would think you will have much better experience with target grade bullets vs military surplus bullets.
Seperate the cases by head stamp year. Prep the cases by removing the primer pocket crimp, deburr the flash hole, and trim to a consistent length.
GooseGestapo
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What you are seeing is the accuracy of the ammunition (or lack thereof).
Any average to match grade commercial ammo or reloads using quality components are likely to shoot FAR better.
My M&A-parts Heavy AR upper, shot 1/2" to occasionaly better with ammo it liked. Often 2" or worse with ammo such as you described. However, that accuracy level was deemed acceptable for the ammo when it was loaded.
You probably won't see peak accuracy from your barrel until you have over 500rds through it, so keep shooting it. But, by all means keep cleaning it to prevent copper alloy fouling.
Try some of the various plastic tipped ammo with bullets of 55gr or heavier. In my experience the bullets are premium grade intended for serious varminting and are usually match grade. Several heavy bbl AR's I've loaded for shot them VERY VERY well.
RE: 77-80gr bullets.
Those labeled as LTB=length tolerant bullet; seated to 2.226" OAL or LESS, will feed through the magazines. If you want to shoot the longer VLD's=very low drag, you'll need to single feed them. These are often seated to beyond 2.30"oal and will not feed through a magazine.
There are replacement followers that make the magazine a single shot magazine where you only drop the round on the follower and depress the bolt release. However, you can "finger feed" the rounds into the chamber and then release the bolt with conventional magazines. The single shot adaptors are intended for shooting under match conditions where time is of essence (time-fire, or even slow fire stages are still "timed").
My adapter was the Satern model. Sinclair also offers one.
The two bullets you described are designed to be normally seated, hence are LTB's. The Hornady 75gr A-max, and the Berger VLD's are intended for single feeding loaded to "over length" diminsions.
Of the two, the 69gr will be better suited for 1/9" twist barrels for which it was designed. The 77gr will be better with 1/8 or 1/7 twist barrels such as the long range match barrels. Which is better depends on the twist rate of YOUR barrel. It is normally stamped on the barrel in front of the gas block. Only a few 1/9 twist barrels will give acceptable results with the >75gr bullets. Even the ones that will shoot the heavier ones accurately are less accurate at ranges under 300yds. It takes the longer ranges to allow the heavier bullet's characteristics to prevail. (less long range drop and wind drift). A characteristic know as "nutation" or wobble is what decreases short range accuracy. This is NOT to say the heavier bullets are inaccurate at short range, but are slightly less accurate until they reach their intended range of use (300yds+).
Any average to match grade commercial ammo or reloads using quality components are likely to shoot FAR better.
My M&A-parts Heavy AR upper, shot 1/2" to occasionaly better with ammo it liked. Often 2" or worse with ammo such as you described. However, that accuracy level was deemed acceptable for the ammo when it was loaded.
You probably won't see peak accuracy from your barrel until you have over 500rds through it, so keep shooting it. But, by all means keep cleaning it to prevent copper alloy fouling.
Try some of the various plastic tipped ammo with bullets of 55gr or heavier. In my experience the bullets are premium grade intended for serious varminting and are usually match grade. Several heavy bbl AR's I've loaded for shot them VERY VERY well.
RE: 77-80gr bullets.
Those labeled as LTB=length tolerant bullet; seated to 2.226" OAL or LESS, will feed through the magazines. If you want to shoot the longer VLD's=very low drag, you'll need to single feed them. These are often seated to beyond 2.30"oal and will not feed through a magazine.
There are replacement followers that make the magazine a single shot magazine where you only drop the round on the follower and depress the bolt release. However, you can "finger feed" the rounds into the chamber and then release the bolt with conventional magazines. The single shot adaptors are intended for shooting under match conditions where time is of essence (time-fire, or even slow fire stages are still "timed").
My adapter was the Satern model. Sinclair also offers one.
The two bullets you described are designed to be normally seated, hence are LTB's. The Hornady 75gr A-max, and the Berger VLD's are intended for single feeding loaded to "over length" diminsions.
Of the two, the 69gr will be better suited for 1/9" twist barrels for which it was designed. The 77gr will be better with 1/8 or 1/7 twist barrels such as the long range match barrels. Which is better depends on the twist rate of YOUR barrel. It is normally stamped on the barrel in front of the gas block. Only a few 1/9 twist barrels will give acceptable results with the >75gr bullets. Even the ones that will shoot the heavier ones accurately are less accurate at ranges under 300yds. It takes the longer ranges to allow the heavier bullet's characteristics to prevail. (less long range drop and wind drift). A characteristic know as "nutation" or wobble is what decreases short range accuracy. This is NOT to say the heavier bullets are inaccurate at short range, but are slightly less accurate until they reach their intended range of use (300yds+).
wanderinwalker
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The 69s and 77s work great from the magazine, in that twist. Be warned: the 77s suck up quite a bit of powder space. They're long pills!
Agree with GooseGestapo about the range though. You should get the 69s to settle OK at 100 (77s too, but not quite as well), but you won't really know how well they want to shoot until you let them stretch their legs to 200-300 yards. Beyond about 3-400 yards, the VLDs take over, and I don't really worry about sub-300 yard group size on my 80gr AR-15 loads. That's not where they're meant to be!
BTW, GG, I think your OAL is a little short, but I can't say for sure. I think that should be 2.26" OAL base-to-tip for mag-length rounds. I load them right out to everything the magazines will take; YMMV.
Oh yeah, try some Nosler bullets too. I can usually find them cheaper than Sierras and find them a direct substitute (IE, 69gr Nosler instead of 69gr SMK, same with the 77s, haven't tried Sierra 80s). I really want to try the new 52gr BTHP they've got; should make a dandy 100-yard practice bullet.
Good luck!
Agree with GooseGestapo about the range though. You should get the 69s to settle OK at 100 (77s too, but not quite as well), but you won't really know how well they want to shoot until you let them stretch their legs to 200-300 yards. Beyond about 3-400 yards, the VLDs take over, and I don't really worry about sub-300 yard group size on my 80gr AR-15 loads. That's not where they're meant to be!
BTW, GG, I think your OAL is a little short, but I can't say for sure. I think that should be 2.26" OAL base-to-tip for mag-length rounds. I load them right out to everything the magazines will take; YMMV.
Oh yeah, try some Nosler bullets too. I can usually find them cheaper than Sierras and find them a direct substitute (IE, 69gr Nosler instead of 69gr SMK, same with the 77s, haven't tried Sierra 80s). I really want to try the new 52gr BTHP they've got; should make a dandy 100-yard practice bullet.
Good luck!
Sure appreciate the good info for sure. Looks like I will try the 69 gr hpbt. Good to know the nosler and sierra are pretty interchangeable. Have always uses sierra and just got used to them. I have used the 52gr hpbt in my 22-250 and it is fantastic. I reload exclusively for my 22-250 with the 52gr.
Yeh, i am getting about 1 inche to 1 1/2 with the 62 gr surplus. I think you are right about that. I get 1/2 with my 22-250 and it is not near the quality as this rifle imho. Interesting note it being new and will shot better after more rounds fire in it. Only got about 50 shots fired.
Yeh, i am getting about 1 inche to 1 1/2 with the 62 gr surplus. I think you are right about that. I get 1/2 with my 22-250 and it is not near the quality as this rifle imho. Interesting note it being new and will shot better after more rounds fire in it. Only got about 50 shots fired.
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