Roger & Spencer (euroarms).44 match grade barrel Brit Needs Help

[Zoro]

Hi to one and all I'm a new member from Gt Britain,as the tile says I need help my revolver is not grouping at all well, I'm using and loading in this order T777 fffg 20gns (volume) felt patch3/8th wonder lube and a 454 ball on top well they are hitting the target which is set at 25meters, but they are hitting all over the place and it's a compertision target so very large so what do you think is wrong I can't use real BP due to all the legal stuff here in uk explosive certificates and such so any help would be in T777 fffg or pyodex P I think it's down to the load may be 20gns of T777 is to low for this gun if so what are you guys using I know work up the loads, but I'm after your opinions on any thing to do with this revolver, can't under stand her she also as a walther Match Barrle perhaps I've just got a Bitch my other BP guns are sweet just this one I'm having trouble with I'm not a novice but am open to any opinions you would like to share may be using to small a ball or two big so come on help a fellow shooter out even if I wear a redcoat my best regards to you all Frank

 

[Zoro]

Ok thanks for looking going to range tonight let you all know how I got on going to shoot it with 24gns T 777 no lube I think the lube is clogging up rifling in barrel got to be something basic T777 is very clean so fouling should be mineral thanks for reading regards Frank

 

[AJumbo]

Wish there were some easier answers for you, Zoro; load development is always key with these monsters, and I don't have much idea what all your options are regarding powders, lubes, and ball sizes. My go-to diagnostic move is to increase the ball size and reduce the powder charge, if paper punching is the game. I hunt with my revolvers, so I'll sacrifice some accuracy for more power, within a given range.

Wringing the best groups from percussion revolvers is almost as much fun as golf... I rarely throw my firearms into the water trap, however.

 

[mykeal]

Offhand I see nothing obviously wrong with your load. But, something needs to change, so here's what I would do:

1) change to .457 balls, keeping other things the same.

2) using .454 balls, reduce your powder load to 15 gr and add enough inert filler material to move the ball forward, almost to the chamber mouth. Again, other things the same.

3) repeat 2 without the Wonder Lube

4) repeat 1 without the Wonder Lube

5) repeat 2 with a 20 gr load

6) repeat 2 with .457 balls

(shoot at least 5 or 6 rounds of each of the above)

At least one of those will be noticeably better than the others. Once you've determined that, if you're still not satisfied, the hard part begins: weigh at least 50 balls. Note the weight of the heaviest, and set it aside with all the others that weigh within 1 grain of that heaviest ball. Give away all the rest. The remaining balls are your target units, to be used only when you're trying for maximum accuracy. Every time you buy new balls, weigh and set aside the ones that fit that criteria.

Take that heaviest group back to the range and using the combination of powder, lube, filler and ball size that worked best, fire another group of 6. Discard that target and fire another group, Chances are you'll be amazed.

One more thing - you may have one or two chambers that are more consistent (thus, accurate) than the others. That's a thing for another range session if you feel the need to improve further. Method: fire six rounds from one chamber with your best load; change targets and fire 6 more rounds from the next chamber; etc.

 

[Zoro]

Wish there were some easier answers for you, Zoro; load development is always key with these monsters, and I don't have much idea what all your options are regarding powders, lubes, and ball sizes. My go-to diagnostic move is to increase the ball size and reduce the powder charge, if paper punching is the game. I hunt with my revolvers, so I'll sacrifice some accuracy for more power, within a given range.

Wringing the best groups from percussion revolvers is almost as much fun as golf... I rarely throw my firearms into the water trap, however.

Thank you for your reply yes I will try 457 ball, was on my list of suspects along with load variants and to lube or not.So lots to try out over the winter, I make all of the balls I use with moulds and check each one by weight/defects as a matter of course ( I know get a lifebut it's what I do.Hunting with Black Powder in England and a revolver to boot I'm all most sure is against the law only hand guns we can own are call long Barrel Pistols which are the length of a carbine sorry some farmers are allowed normal pistol/revolvers under licence for the dispatch of injured live stock.So you are lucky my friend don't let them change your gun laws look what happened to us reduced to paper punching well once again thank you for your most welcome reply I'll send you a message if I get a break though and it all comes together my best Regards Frank

 

[Zoro]

Offhand I see nothing obviously wrong with your load. But, something needs to change, so here's what I would do:

1) change to .457 balls, keeping other things the same.

2) using .454 balls, reduce your powder load to 15 gr and add enough inert filler material to move the ball forward, almost to the chamber mouth. Again, other things the same.

3) repeat 2 without the Wonder Lube

4) repeat 1 without the Wonder Lube

5) repeat 2 with a 20 gr load

6) repeat 2 with .457 balls

(shoot at least 5 or 6 rounds of each of the above)

At least one of those will be noticeably better than the others. Once you've determined that, if you're still not satisfied, the hard part begins: weigh at least 50 balls. Note the weight of the heaviest, and set it aside with all the others that weigh within 1 grain of that heaviest ball. Give away all the rest. The remaining balls are your target units, to be used only when you're trying for maximum accuracy. Every time you buy new balls, weigh and set aside the ones that fit that criteria.

Take that heaviest group back to the range and using the combination of powder, lube, filler and ball size that worked best, fire another group of 6. Discard that target and fire another group, Chances are you'll be amazed.

One more thing - you may have one or two chambers that are more consistent (thus, accurate) than the others. That's a thing for another range session if you feel the need to improve further. Method: fire six rounds from one chamber with your best load; change targets and fire 6 more rounds from the next chamber; etc.

Thank you for you most informative reply. You have given me a lot to do and think about as said in 2nd post did go to the club last night kept cool and relaxed to no avail so back to basics with this gun I will try out your method it gives me a plan to work with thank you a lot of what you have told me make seance just have to grease some palms at the club for extra range time thanks once again for a workable plan my best regards Frank

 

[AJumbo]

Looks like Mykeal and I are cut from the same bolt of OCD cloth! I have a tendency to find a great load, write it down, then go in search of a better one.

Nonetheless, there's some great info in his post, Zoro, so go forth and conquer!