If your politics are dictated by what you're told by Fox News or MSNBC, then you're going to have a hard time with this article. 2A restrictions were a lot less interesting to the Left when Bush-Cheney had the reigns. It has taken 5+ years, but a lot of Libs are coming to the realization the the new boss is just as sold-out as the old boss.
Rolling Stone Tries Again, and Mostly Gets it Right
- Thread starter LemmyCaution
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Vodoun da Vinci
Member
*YES!*
Ben, Sam and yourself have redeemed THR political discussions for me. I'm not alone it seems....
As have many others (Trent!!) in this thread. I'm surprised and pleased to read the comments here from folks who are not polarized but open to change *and* in keeping the 2nd and RKBA sacred. I'm not politically polarized - I'm distrustful of both parties based upon their performance and record. I don't judge political parties (or people) by ideology or rhetoric. I judge them by what they do and have done. I think many who tout themselves as Conservative Republicans need to realize that many of us who are ardent supporters of the 2nd and RKBA are *not* Conservative Republicans. I was at one time - they have failed. I believed Obama and his ideology (rhetoric to "get control") and he has failed/lied misrepresented his intentions and skills/desires.
I'm not Republican nor Democrat - not Conservative nor Liberal. I'm awake and alive and I want as many Americans to get goodness from their lives as possible and I want to see as many people as possible go home every day without a bloody nose and a sock in the gut. And that means we are gonna have to open our minds and find solutions outside the 20th century box. The answers have not yet been discovered and we all need to work together to find those answers. It's "US" against "Them" - Them being those elitists and tyrants who want it all at our expense. It plain to me that solutions lie ahead and not behind...core values like a human being able to use the best means necessary to defend himself and his family are paramount but "rolling it all back" to "the good old days" of America is not possible. The solutions are ahead of us and will require cool heads and an open mind to discover.
VooDoo
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MedWheeler
Member
I wonder what the carbon tax supported by so many here would be on each round of ammunition purchased...
Radagast
Member
Well, its a form of sequestration when we store large quantities of ammo away, so maybe we should apply to the Joyce Foundation for individual grants.
we are not amused
Member
What? Wanting to kill everybody?
The left-wing loon just described hating everybody but all out communist!
Sam Cade
Member
Is that seriously what you managed to gather from the article?
Surely not. You are smarter than that.
People read into what the read what they want and have to then go back and reread to have the opportunity to be more objective. Very few of us that have read the article read it as "kill'm all", but some folks might need to go back to look again in the light of what the majority sees.
This means "wanting to kill everybody" to some, while others see it as the 2nd is the defense of the people against tyranny.
A lot of people on THR have said these very things in part or parcels, but because they were said here they passed most people's perception without much trouble.
This means "wanting to kill everybody" to some, while others see it as the 2nd is the defense of the people against tyranny.
A lot of people on THR have said these very things in part or parcels, but because they were said here they passed most people's perception without much trouble.
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we are not amused
Member
All right! You Left-wing Lefties claim you are for the second Amendment, yet want to limit Free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, and restrict our ability to petition the government to redress our grievances.
Okay, you are against everything I like, such as private property, a color blind society, the right to not have the government micromanage every thing we do.
But, you claim to support gun rights.
So, what are you doing to preserve and/or expand that right?
All of the politicians you support are vehemently anti-gun!
You hate Conservatives. the Tea Party, and Libertarians. You love the Communist, Greens, Socialist, Progressives and Fascist of all stripes. Okay, I get that, but you like guns. Why do you support the enemies of gun rights?
I repeat! What are you doing to preserve gun rights?
Conservatives, the T.E.A. Party, and Libertarians are the only organized political groups that support gun rights as a matter of Principle.
If you want to argue that many Republicans are not that supportive of gun rights, I won't argue. I remember President George H. W. Bush, and Governor Bill Graves of Kansas, and Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey.
But it has been the Conservative wing of the Republican Party which has blocked gun control bills supported by Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Democrat Minority leader Nancy Pelosi, and President Barack Obama. It is no secret that President Bill Clinton blamed the takeover of the 1994 Congress by Conservative Republicans on his and the Democrat gun control efforts.
You hate our guts, yet it has been the despised Conservatives, Tea Party and Libertarians who has preserved Your gun rights.
If you support gun rights so much? Then why do all your political gurus and elected political leaders support gun control?
I am interested in the answer.
Why do you think you should have guns and yet elect and support politicians who want to ban them?
Okay, you are against everything I like, such as private property, a color blind society, the right to not have the government micromanage every thing we do.
But, you claim to support gun rights.
So, what are you doing to preserve and/or expand that right?
All of the politicians you support are vehemently anti-gun!
You hate Conservatives. the Tea Party, and Libertarians. You love the Communist, Greens, Socialist, Progressives and Fascist of all stripes. Okay, I get that, but you like guns. Why do you support the enemies of gun rights?
I repeat! What are you doing to preserve gun rights?
Conservatives, the T.E.A. Party, and Libertarians are the only organized political groups that support gun rights as a matter of Principle.
If you want to argue that many Republicans are not that supportive of gun rights, I won't argue. I remember President George H. W. Bush, and Governor Bill Graves of Kansas, and Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey.
But it has been the Conservative wing of the Republican Party which has blocked gun control bills supported by Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Democrat Minority leader Nancy Pelosi, and President Barack Obama. It is no secret that President Bill Clinton blamed the takeover of the 1994 Congress by Conservative Republicans on his and the Democrat gun control efforts.
You hate our guts, yet it has been the despised Conservatives, Tea Party and Libertarians who has preserved Your gun rights.
If you support gun rights so much? Then why do all your political gurus and elected political leaders support gun control?
I am interested in the answer.
Why do you think you should have guns and yet elect and support politicians who want to ban them?
we are not amused,
1. There are many pro-gun Democrats. Many.
2. Some people have many issues that they care about. Some people are not blessed/cursed with views that align perfectly with the orthodoxy of any party. That means trying to find the "best fit" of a candidate to your views. I don't think there has ever been a candidate for any office of any real stature with whom I have agreed on everything.
1. There are many pro-gun Democrats. Many.
2. Some people have many issues that they care about. Some people are not blessed/cursed with views that align perfectly with the orthodoxy of any party. That means trying to find the "best fit" of a candidate to your views. I don't think there has ever been a candidate for any office of any real stature with whom I have agreed on everything.
You're almost there.
You have recognized that there is a vast difference between Republicans and Conservatives, take the next step.
plodder
Member
At the extreme risk of this post being "moderated", here is a practice that has stood me in good stead for most of my adult life: In these days of the "modern Democrats" (think post-JFK), Never vote for anyone who calls themselves a Democrat, and be very careful of voting for anyone who calls themselves a Republican.
we are not amused
Member
Yet in the article he talks about a friend of his that raised money for Howard Dean and was a supporter of John Edwards, neither a friend of guns. I see a bit of disconnect there.
Do they believe that they have a right to guns, but not everyone else? Or do they somehow fail to link their support of gun control supporting politicians with efforts to ban guns?
Look, I don't have any problem with people who want to live on a commune, as long as they don't use welfare scams to fund it. If you want to get with your neighbors and start a mutual benefit and aid association, I have no problem. I belong to several, and get accused by the Left of being a anti-government right-wing redneck militia nut, a "prepper" and a religious nut, for doing so. In fact some belonging to this very site have accused me of being such.
You support Obama? Fine, just don't expect your gun rights to be preserved by your efforts. Instead, depend upon the efforts of Conservatives, Tea Party associates, and Libertarians. We have been carrying the bulk of the battle. That is why we support the NRA, and why Lefties consider the NRA a Right-wing organization, because it supports gun rights.
If there are a significant number of people on the Left who support gun rights, then why don't the people they elect reflect that belief?
we are not amused
Member
I have never claimed to be a Republican. I am a Conservative T.E.A. Party associate, and former Libertarian. As such I vote for Conservative Politicians who are mostly Conservative Republicans but also a few Libertarians. I have never deliberately voted for a Left-wing Progressive Fascist, such as Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durban, John Edwards, Kathleen Sibelius, or Bill de Blasio. I left many out that I would never vote for, but you get the idea. Have I always been pleased by all the actions of people I have voted for? No, but I have always thought the results to be better, than if his/her opponent had won. Considering the results of Obama, I have no regrets voting for Sarah Palin for Vice-President in '08.
How about you?
How about me what?I have never claimed to be a Republican. I am a Conservative T.E.A. Party associate, and former Libertarian. As such I vote for Conservative Politicians who are mostly Conservative Republicans but also a few Libertarians. I have never deliberately voted for a Left-wing Progressive Fascist, such as Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durban, John Edwards, Kathleen Sibelius, or Bill de Blasio. I left many out that I would never vote for, but you get the idea. Have I always been pleased by all the actions of people I have voted for? No, but I have always thought the results to be better, than if his/her opponent had won. Considering the results of Obama, I have no regrets voting for Sarah Palin for Vice-President in '08.
How about you?
Have I voted for any of the Democrats you listed? Not a chance, I can recognize a Statist when I smell one, Republican or Democrat.
However, your quest for bonafides is pointless, counter-productive, and off-topic. IMO the author of the RS "article" should be commended for getting at least getting one thing correct: 2A Support.
The rest of his political enlightenment may come later, as it may with others on this very forum...
we are not amused
Member
Here! Here!
My philosophy exactly!
By the way, we Conservatives didn't start this thread. If you liberals want to shut it down, do so. I am not afraid of debate. I think this needs to be said.
The Democrat Party platform calls for gun control. If the Liberals on this site who claim to support the Second Amendment really mean it. What are you doing to change that?
As a Conservative believer in what is known as Classical Liberalism, I get tired of being attacked by so-called "Modern Liberals" who claim to support gun rights, but elect anti-gun politicians.
What do you do to preserve our gun rights?
Hmmmm.
One thing pro-gun Democrats very often do is weigh gun policy preferences in primaries.
Another is call their Democratic reps and explain that they are a Democrat but against X or Y proposal.
Imagine you're an elected politician. You are considering taking a position on X topic (can be guns, could be anything else). You get calls from two voters. One voter says that he has never voted for you, and will never vote for you (because of party or non-X issue). That voter then says he wants you to take some position on X. The second call comes from a voter that says he has voted for you in the past, and may even have given money to your campaign. He says he'd like to vote for you in the future, but won't if you take a bad position on X.
Which call matters more? Only a moron would give weight to the first caller. That caller's vote is lost anyway. Nothing's going to change that, so who cares what that voter thinks (I'm imagining a selfish pol mainly interested in staying in office). The second caller - that's a different matter. Now you're talking about a vote that could be lost. And you know that there are an unknown number of other voters who feel the same way.
If your concern is that Democratic platform contains gun control, the only chance of that being changed is by other Democrats having a contrary position.
And if you think that all Dems are anti-gun, you're just factually mistaken. There are even plenty of ELECTED Dems, not just rank-and-file voters, who are pro-gun. The Democratic candidate for governor (Jason Carter, grandson of Jimmy Carter) voted for the so-called "guns everywhere" bill here in Georgia earlier this year.
jerkface11
Member
How did that whole calling them thing work out in Colorado?
we are not amused
Member
Actually that is how Classical Liberals (AKA Conservatives, Tea Party Associates, and Libertarians) and the NRA have and are changing the Republican Party into a pro-gun rights party. There is still work to do, but look who blocked Obama's gun control efforts.
I have never claimed that all Democrats are anti-gun, (my Father was a Democrat, and very pro-gun, but he never connected his support of LBJ or Bill Clinton with their gun control efforts, we fought a lot about that), or even that all elected Democrats were anti-gun.
Just the overwhelming majority of them.
we are not amused
Member
Which means that either there are very few Liberal supporters of gun rights in Colorado, or they failed to make their opposition known.
rbernie
Contributing Member
As much as I generally believe that party affiliation has little to do with support for the RKBA, this is a legitimate and serious question.
It's hard to take 'pro-gun' proclamations from Democrats seriously when the party with which you're affiliated has a documented goal of gutting the RKBA. It's even harder given a track record of not being willing to buck the party plank.
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Sam Cade
Member
Don't assume that Liberal equals (right wing, statist) Democrat voter.
Sam Cade
Member
but but..that doesn't fit into the Narrative that we have been sold.
Existential crisis! My very conception of self is being challenged...
Politics might be complicated!
I might have to actually think about it now!
Ohh Nooooo!
we are not amused
Member
I question the "many pro-gun Democrats" claim. There are some to be sure, but if there were "Many" then why do they not have a bigger say in their Party's policies?
Not all Republicans are Pro-gun. But there are many who are. Enough to make a real difference in Republican policies and platforms. And it took a lot of effort to convince some of the elected Party officials of that. It means organizing and running candidates that you do favor. Showing up for local party committees, and going to meetings and donating time and money. It is not easy, and it takes time, but changes can be made.
I sympathize with your second point, but if you don't like the policies, views, or orthodoxy of any of the parties, then change them. I know all about trying to find "the best fit" candidate to ones views. The solution to that is if you can't find one you like, then run your own candidate. Either run for office yourself, or find one you like, and support him/her. If you can't find any party that even remotely supports your views, then start your own.
This is America! Still the land of the free despite the best effort of Eric Holder!
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