ruger #1 in 460 s&w

[jlineman]

Just purchased a ruger #1 in 460 s&w. I have 110 powder on hand and 250gr hornady sst's. Has anybody tried this setup or any other. I plan on using the rifle for everthing from whitetial to elk and hopefully the unlucky black bear. Thanks

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I was getting ready to load some 460 S&W with new Hornady brass, Hornady 250 gr 0.451" XTP bullets, and Winchester 296 powder, but I can't find any reloading data for this combination. The Hodgens/Winchester site had no load data with a 250 gr 0.452" dia bullet and my reloading manual is a Speer from before the 460 was available.

 

[buck460XVR]

I was getting ready to load some 460 S&W with new Hornady brass, Hornady 250 gr 0.451" XTP bullets, and Winchester 296 powder, but I can't find any reloading data for this combination. The Hodgens/Winchester site had no load data with a 250 gr 0.452" dia bullet and my reloading manual is a Speer from before the 360 was available.

The reason there's no data for it is because that bullet is not designed for .460 pressures and velocities. It is designed for .45 Colt. While it can be used for reduced recoil loads, loading it to legitimate .460 pressures and velocities can lead to jacket separation and excessive forcing cone erosion. You need to use Hornady 240 or 300 gr XTP-MAGs and not their regular .45 caliber XTPs. Speer's 300 Gr Deep Curls also work well. W296 does not work with reduced recoil loads, so either your bullets or your powder need to change.

 

[Grumulkin]

I believe the jacket separation concern is unfounded though expansion at the terminal end should be impressive. As for forcing cone erosion; he's shooting a Ruger #1.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

The reason there's no data for it is because that bullet is not designed for .460 pressures and velocities. It is designed for .45 Colt. While it can be used for reduced recoil loads, loading it to legitimate .460 pressures and velocities can lead to jacket separation and excessive forcing cone erosion. You need to use Hornady 240 or 300 gr XTP-MAGs and not their regular .45 caliber XTPs. Speer's 300 Gr Deep Curls also work well. W296 does not work with reduced recoil loads, so either your bullets or your powder need to change.

I spent an hour or so looking through old threads and came to the conclusion of just what you stated. I bought the 250 gr bullets because the factory ammo I bought is Winchester 250 gr. I should have done more research before buying the bullets. I use the Ein 296 for 44 and 357 mag and 30 carbine, so I was wanting to use it for the 460. I guess I either need to get rid of these Hornady bullets or buy another powder so I can use the bullets. What powder would you recommend if I were to decide to use these bullets for light loads? I have 100 bullets, so it's not like I bought 1000, and whatever powder I get, I can use it for 44 mag and 357 mag, also, probably.

As for forcing cone erosion; he's shooting a Ruger #1.

The OP is using a Ruger #1. I have a S&W Performance Center 460XVR I am starting to reload for.

 

[buck460XVR]

I spent an hour or so looking through old threads and came to the conclusion of just what you stated. I bought the 250 gr bullets because the factory ammo I bought is Winchester 250 gr. I should have done more research before buying the bullets. I use the Ein 296 for 44 and 357 mag and 30 carbine, so I was wanting to use it for the 460. I guess I either need to get rid of these Hornady bullets or buy another powder so I can use the bullets. What powder would you recommend if I were to decide to use these bullets for light loads? I have 100 bullets, so it's not like I bought 1000, and whatever powder I get, I can use it for 44 mag and 357 mag, also, probably.


The OP is using a Ruger #1. I have a S&W Performance Center 460XVR I am starting to reload for.

W296/H110 is an excellent powder in the .460 for hunting type loads. For reduced recoil loads using 250 gr bullets I have used 2400 and IMR4227, but I was never impressed with the results compared to legitimate .460 loads. I had better luck with Trailboss, but again not worth writing home about. Even the fairly accurate reduced recoil loads printed so much different than regular hunting loads that adjusting the sights was necessary for consistency. It was easier for me to just shoot my hunting type loads all the time. The weight of the gun and the comped barrel make them pleasant enough to shoot every range trip anyway. I like Hornadys 300 gr XTP-MAGs(not their standard .45 caliber 300gr XTPs) or Speers 300gr Deep Curls for deer over a dose of IMR4227 that gives me the best accuracy without sticky extraction. In my gun that's around 38-39 grains depending on which bullet. PC .460 X-Frames were found to sometimes have tight throats and exhibit signs of high pressure at lower charge rates than others. Some manufacturers have reduced their charges in their factory ammo because of this. Many early recipes in reloading manuals do not reflect this. I advise you to start at or just above min and work up in .5 grain increments. It sometimes does not take much of an increase in powder charge to go from empties that fall out to those that need to be pushed out with a dowel. While flattened primers are the norm, sticky extraction is not. Info on the Hodgdon website is hot compared to other manuals and Their start charge is about my max with Hornady bullets.

 

[JohnM]

Interesting stuff about those bullets.
I've got an 8 1/2" 460 XVR, but haven't reloaded any because my dies got stuck on a backorder.
I'll probably shoot cast bullets mostly. I picked up a box of Laser Cast 300grn locally I'll probably load first when ever the rest of the stuff I need shows up.

 

[wackemanstackem]

there is a recipe for the 45 .452 xtps its in the lee manual i use it all the time in my 460 with the 14 in. barrel its a great load 2400 is the powder i use and i believe power pistol is the other though it could be unique would have to look it is not a reduced load. i also use that same bullet in my 45 long colts and have great results. The Alliant web site also has a recipe for that same bullet in speer jhp.

 

[DC Plumber]

It is a similar situation with the 454 Casull. I use the standard 250g XTP with lighter target loads but you have to use XTP MAG bullets for high pressure situation like the 454 Casull or 460. I've actually had really good luck with 11g of Universal and the standard 250g XTP in my 454 Casull loads out of my Alaskan. They are easy shooting, less flash and bang than a 44 magnum and get me right around 1050fps with that little stubby barrel. All with 11g of powder. I could drop that back to 10g and get under 1000fps and probably have a really good self defense load in a 6 shot revolver for a house gun. Not the best CCW but good for the nightstand.

 

[JohnM]

I'm curious about that #1.
Was that a custom build from the get go?

 

[buck460XVR]

there is a recipe for the 45 .452 xtps its in the lee manual i use it all the time in my 460 with the 14 in. barrel its a great load 2400 is the powder i use and i believe power pistol is the other though it could be unique would have to look it is not a reduced load. i also use that same bullet in my 45 long colts and have great results. [COLOR]The Alliant web site also has a recipe for that same bullet in speer jhp.[/COLOR]

The recipe from Alliant is the same as published in the Speer manual for their 250gr .45 caliber projectile. They list it as a reduced recoil load and advise it is rated to little over .44 mag pressures and advise to keep pressure to 37,000psi or less when using it in the .460 to avoid erosion of critical gun parts. Max pressure for the .460 is 65,000psi. The 250 grainer is also bonded bullet I believe and not a true cup and core jacketed. I also believe that PP or Unique are way too fast a powder to be used for anything but reduced recoil loads in .460 S&W.

 

[wackemanstackem]

I was simply stating that the 250 grn 45 xtp is designed to be shot in the 460 it is well under the pressure and performs very well for me with 2400 as my powder using LRP and lee has a very good recipe for that exact bullet in there book so all he has to do is change powders if he wants to use those xtps.This load is well suited for the big 460 gun.

 

[buck460XVR]

I was simply stating that the 250 grn 45 xtp is designed to be shot in the 460 it is well under the pressure and performs very well for me with 2400 as my powder using LRP and lee has a very good recipe for that exact bullet in there book so all he has to do is change powders if he wants to use those xtps.This load is well suited for the big 460 gun.

I believe that if the 250gr XTP was really designed to be shot in the .460 as you claim, that Hornady would have a recipe for it in their reloading manual.....since they manufacture the bullet and helped S&W develop the caliber in the first place. The lack of it's inclusion is a sure sign that they, themselves feel it is inappropriate for use. Will it work? Sure. Will it work well? Probably not. Can it be used......again, yes, at the velocities and pressures it was designed for, which are not those of legitimate .460 ammo. The OP is not the first person to make the mistake of purchasing the wrong bullet for the application. He's lucky he only bought one box. Is it worth the cost and effort to use $20 worth of inappropriate bullets? IMHO, it depends if one already has the components. Is it worth damaging a $1300 firearm to recoup the cost of a $20 box of bullets or to save the little bit of difference in cost between them and appropriate bullets? Guess that's up to you. Load them to their designed pressures for plinkers and be done with it, but don't recommend them to someone else as a primary component, and certainly don't suggest them as a hunting bullet for anything larger than a coyote. If you are shooting that bullet primarily with reduced recoil loads thru your X-Frame, you are missing the real potential of your firearm.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I'll shelve the 250gr reg XTP bullets in case I ever start reloading 45LC or 454 Casull and ordered a box of 240 gr XTP/MAG and a box of 300 gr XTP/MAG bullets. I just target shoot (mostly 100 yrds), so these will let me figure out what my gun likes the most.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[wackemanstackem]

Buck i dont dispute your facts that the other bullets perform better I shoot many differnt in my 460 have probably shot every bullet made for this gun over time .I am not a match shooter I shoot alot of my built 45 long colts in it and get great results . I wasnt telling him which to use and what his use is for just that i have used that load since this gun came out and never have any probs, is it the best performing bullet in this gun heck no but 1 that will sure work if built properly if he had any 2400 he could surely load those 100 bullets and not hurt anything at all .If he is going on a lion hunt well then he might want something else just sayin.You sound like a very experienced loader as I feel I am since 38 yrs of doing it and always staying close to the book has been my sucsess.I wouldnt load it if Lee or Speer or alliant etc didnt have a recipe for it.

 

[wackemanstackem]

Hey Buck let me ask you this I am always lookin for good proven loads and would like to hear what you have found to be a great load for the 460 I prefer hornady bullets although will use whatever works best ,so if you have a good recipe I would luv to hear it so I could try it always lookin to get tighter .I shoot about 50-100 yrds most of the time when i get the hand cannon out.Its the 14 in so ballistics might be diff if yours is not .You can shoot me a pm if you dont wana post it .

 

[buck460XVR]

Hey Buck let me ask you this I am always lookin for good proven loads and would like to hear what you have found to be a great load for the 460 I prefer hornady bullets although will use whatever works best ,so if you have a good recipe I would luv to hear it so I could try it always lookin to get tighter .I shoot about 50-100 yrds most of the time when i get the hand cannon out.Its the 14 in so ballistics might be diff if yours is not .You can shoot me a pm if you dont wana post it .

I generally don't like to give out recipes on the internet either in threads or PMs. To much margin for error, besides, what works well in my firearm's don't always work in others. That and finding the load that works well in YOUR gun is what Handloading is all about. My PC X-Frame has tight throats and thus likes loads lower on the scale than those that don't. If you got the Speer Manual, then you got the recipes you need for reloading your preferred bullet. You should have also noticed their warnings about it. Their recipes for their 300gr Deep Curl/Gold Dot are good and that bullet is a favorite of mine for hunting. If you like Hornady bullets, their manual is good also and is very realistic. Hodgdon's website has load data for Hornady's 240 and 300 gr XTP-MAGs, but it tends to be a tad hot in my gun and I don't get much above their starting loads. I started out using primarily H110/W296 in the .460, but have found IMR4227 really likes the long pipe and is much less temperature sensitive. It also can be downloaded safer than H110/W296.

 

[CraigC]

I believe the jacket separation concern is unfounded though expansion at the terminal end should be impressive.

Try it and see how that works for you. Expansion is one thing, instantaneous deconstruction is quite another. Push jacketed bullets designed for standard pressure .45Colt to .460S&W rifle velocities and they will act like varmint bombs. Especially with a bullet like the XTP that is not bonded and already has a reputation for jacket/core separation.

 

[noylj]

Wouldn't a bottleneck case based on the .500 S&W be "better" for a rifle?
Since you don't have to load to maximum, why not start with some light loads and work up--as you find the "required" bullets.
I would think a good hard cast bullet at 350-400gn would be great.
Tell us how the rifle performs, OK?

 

[CraigC]

Wouldn't a bottleneck case based on the .500 S&W be "better" for a rifle?
Since you don't have to load to maximum, why not start with some light loads and work up--as you find the "required" bullets.
I would think a good hard cast bullet at 350-400gn would be great.
Tell us how the rifle performs, OK?

Smells an awful lot like a .45-70. All the performance without the blistering pressures.

 

[JohnM]

? Since when was the 45-70 a bottle neck case?
Even the hottest Contender type loads for it don't come close to the 460S&W Mag.

 

[Grumulkin]

Try it and see how that works for you. Expansion is one thing, instantaneous deconstruction is quite another. Push jacketed bullets designed for standard pressure .45Colt to .460S&W rifle velocities and they will act like varmint bombs. Especially with a bullet like the XTP that is not bonded and already has a reputation for jacket/core separation.

I'm OK with shooting a so called "bomb." This is a Hornady 250 gr SST/ML bullet recovered from an Impala I shot. The "bomb" left the barrel propelled by a hefty load of 2400 at about 2,350 FPS out of a braked 15 inch Encore 460 S&W Magnum barrel. The Impala was DRT. The "bomb" also easily took down Zebra, Red Hartebeest and European Fallow Deer. European Fallow Deer, by the way, go about 600 lbs.

 

[buck460XVR]

Isn't the .45 caliber 250 gr FTX/SST bullet designed for the 450 Bushmaster and not .45 Colt? Could be the major reason it holds together better than standard XTPs @ .460 belocities.

 

[kludge]

jlineman, 250gr Hornady SST in .452" ? are you sure about that :scratch head:

There is a 250gr XTP meant for the .45 Colt - Don't use that one - and a 250gr FTX meant for the .450 Bushmaster - you might be able to use that one, but there's no cannelure, so YMMV.

I would either use the XTP-Mag (240gr and 300gr, I'd use the 300gr) if you are concerned with cost - they are great bullets for the money, or I'd use one of the Barnes bullets if you want slightly better BC (I'd go with the 275 gr).

 

[CraigC]

? Since when was the 45-70 a bottle neck case?
Even the hottest Contender type loads for it don't come close to the 460S&W Mag.

I didn't say it was but he's talking about 350-400gr cast bullets and the discussion is about a .460 rifle, not handguns. The .45-70 will do that with a FAR better selection of bullets in that weight range. Sorry if it makes more sense to me to use an existing cartridge to do what you want it to without creating a new wildcat and having a custom reamer made.

This is a Hornady 250 gr SST/ML bullet recovered from an Impala I shot.

That's not a .45Colt bullet. That's also classic jacket/core separation and while that's not a good thing, it's not what I was talking about either. While it may have resulted in a dead critter, your bullet failed and you'd be better served with the aforementioned 300gr Speer. Or the 270gr Gold Dot.

I believe the jacket separation concern is unfounded...

I'm confused, you say the concern is unfounded and then post a picture of a bullet that separated.