Ruger LCP Vs. Taurus TCP

[kokapelli]

I looked at the 238 and also the LCP. I bought the TCP

The 238 is considerably larger; I have a 2" snubbie for when I can deal with something that size. The TCP/LCP size works for dress pants front pocket carry (pocket holster), which was my particular need.

Accuracy has been WAY better than I expected. Almost as good as what I can do with a full size (heavy) 9mm. This was completely unexpected. This firearm has done what I wanted, and at a bargain basement price compared to my snubbies and my full size 9mmm....hundreds cheaper. Your mileage may vary.

The P238 is NOT "considerably larger" than the TCP/LCP and certainly much smaller than the already small PM9. Yes it is slightly larger than the TCP but just slightly.

I have a TCP and it works fine but it is not even close to having the shooting level of the P238.

For size comparison, here is my P238 next to my PM9 and we know the PM9 is quite small.

 

[docsleepy]

You know, when I look at their measurements, you're sorta right, there is not a lot of difference. However, when you multiply all their dimensions to find the size of a box that would enclose them, the tcp fits within 14.6 in-cubed, while the 238 fits within 23.6 in-cubed. The 238 is small, however. By comparison, my snubbie fits within a box of about 35.8 in-cubed. Clearly the 238 is smaller than the snubbie.

References where I got the sizes:
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-PT738.htm
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/...p238-subcompact-single-action-380-acp-pistol/
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=426513

 

[kokapelli]

I don't keep my P238 in boxes but I do know the P238 drops into my pocket as easily as the TCP does.

 

[harmon rabb]

depends on how big your pocket is, i guess

 

[kokapelli]

The size of the P238 is misrepresented in this thread and viewing this video clearly shows just how small it is.
http://www.youtube.com/v/1GTx4Rh2f0E&hl=en

 

[docsleepy]

Fits very nicely in his palm!
Quite a small firearm. Probably I should have said "slightly" larger!

 

[akadave]

I can shoot the LCR all day with hot or standard ammo. It may be your grips too. Im not sure if there alternative grips available. The LCR is suprisingly accurate as well. I shoot it better than my S&W M&P 340...which bothers me a bit..lol!

 

[stchman]

Got to love the Sig folks. I thought the OP asked for opinions on the LCP and TCP. Where does the Sig P238 fit come into play?

From Ruger's website:
Length: 5.16"
Width: 0.82"
Height: 3.60"
Weight: 9.40 oz.

From Sig's website
Overall Length 5.5 in
Overall Height 3.9 in
Overall Width 1.1 in
Weight w/Mag 15.2 oz

Looks like the Sig is longer, taller, wider, and heavier while having the same mag capacity. Not to mention it costs about $250 more. You can almost get (2) LCPs for the price of on P238. The Sig might be a better pistol, but not 2X better.

I own an LCP and it runs very well. I did not buy it to be a range toy to run thousands of rounds through.

As far as durability how do people think them purty wood grips are going to hold up over time during pocket carry. I imagine they are going to get all scratched up and the finish will start to come off the slide over time.

I have had nothing but good service from Ruger firearms and their customer service is excellent.

 

[stchman]

To the folks shooting +P ammo in their LCP. Ruger specifically state in the owners manual to NOT SHOOT +P ammo. I had Ruger CS tell me that the gun could break and injury could result. I happen to agree, the gun is very small and light, it has very little mass to absorb all that energy.

 

[MCgunner]

One is made and serviced here in the USA and one isn't. That's enough for me. So, I bought an LCP.

Wrong. The TCP is built in and serviced in Florida which I believe is in the USA.

 

[MCgunner]

And, well, if the Sig is going to be brought into a TCP//LCP discussion, why not consider the Kel Tec P11, 10+1 rounds of 9mm +P. Mines 14 years old and 100 percent reliable and 3.5" 25 yards accurate. Made in the USA with excellent CS I'm told, too. It's about the same size at the P238. Seems like a more direct comparison than Sig vs LCP/TCP in size. Which would I rather carry, 9mm +P hi cap or .380? DUH

 

[bigjohn08]

At the shop I work at we've not heard a lot of good about the TCP's as for the LCP we have sold a lot of them to concealed carry holders and law enforcement the main gripe we get is that the trigger pull is heavy and if carried everday the slides will rust especially in the rear. We started offering a duracoat package for them and it has proved popular so far. Love it or hate it duracoating the slides seem to help with the rusting problems and a lot of people love the color change from the run of the mill black. It's become pretty popular. Can't understand why RUGER didn't make the slides out of stainless and anodize them black like SIG does.

 

[kokapelli]

I own an LCP and it runs very well. I did not buy it to be a range toy to run thousands of rounds through.

As far as durability how do people think them purty wood grips are going to hold up over time during pocket carry. I imagine they are going to get all scratched up and the finish will start to come off the slide over time.

I have had nothing but good service from Ruger firearms and their customer service is excellent.

Yes Ruger is a good company and I own a few of their guns but I shot my son's LCP and as far as I was concerned it isn't what I want. I have a P-3AT that I like better and I like the P238 way, way better than both the LCP and P-3AT. My son shot my P238 and his LCP is history and yes he has rosewood grips on his new P238 too.

I have had wood grips on other guns and they have not been a problem. As a matter of fact I pocket carried an NAA 22 magnum pistol for years and it's rosewood grips look as good today as when they were new.

Since you say "Looks like the Sig is longer, taller, wider" you must not have actually held one let alone shot one! Why is it you feel compelled to knock a pistol you obviously know little about?

If your satisfied with your LCP thats fine and I haven't any problem with the LCP, but I think the sig is a better pistol by a long shot and yes I gladly paid for that and I like having rosewood grips and I don't know why that bothers you, you need to learn to live with it.

Yes the P238 cost more than the LCP and your right it's not 2X better, probably more like 3 or 4 times better and believe me it's worth every penny of it.

As far as shooting thousands of rounds through it, you bet I will. It's the pistol thats in my pocket everyday and I want to be as good shooting it as I can.

And it "Looks like the Sig is longer, taller, wider", that sounds like it's huge compared to the LCP!

How much bigger is the P238 compared to the LCP? Take a look. Here they are overlaying each other. As far as thick, aside from the safety, they are pretty close in width.




I will never understand why some people have to knock pistols other people have without good reason.

 

[benzy2]

I must say the P238 is a pistol I want to love but can't. It has those great 1911 lines. It's small enough for pocket carry in most situations a LCP/TCP can. It has a SAO trigger. But the problems seem unending with them. I wouldn't doubt it is the vast minority making a lot of wake but for a defensive pistol, reliability is the biggest issue for me. I want a pistol I can count on. I have not had a single issue with my LCP. Every trigger pull went bang (short of those where I was dryfiring). I personally haven't noticed the recoil to be excessive. Compared to the little FEG PA63 I think the Ruger feels mild. I also find accuracy to be good enough. Slow fire I tend to be getting 2-3" groups at 7-10 yards and rapid fire is WELL within a torso size group. I'm not looking for better shooting than that from this pistol. At the range I would enjoy a lighter pull, but in the defense setting it is fine.

I guess for me the LCP hits all the notes needed. It's 100% reliable. It's chest accurate in rapid fire at 10 yards. It isn't so unpleasant to shoot that I can't run at least 50 rounds through it a session. It fits size wise with my goals. It was priced where I like. It has CS to back up any malfunctions.

The TCP does most of that but I have heard a few issues with reliability and CS is practically nonexistent.

The Sig p238 is a great pistol when it works. It is a bit of a show piece and with the reports of recoil springs giving up after a few hundred rounds I would be hesitant to use it as a defensive piece. The price is a bit above what I would like to pay for a gun I know is going to be beaten on but if it buys reliability I can justify the price. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems you buy the looks, the feel, the trigger, the accuracy, but not the reliability. If you have one that has worked for thousands of rounds without issue, enjoy it and shoot the sucker. Until I see a better trend I am waiting them out.

 

[harmon rabb]

I guess for me the LCP hits all the notes needed. It's 100% reliable.

That, and the size, is about all I can say good about my LCP. I hate the trigger and I'm not a very good shot with it. But the darn thing has functioned as well as my glock from day 1, and it carries as easy as a cell phone. I guess that counts for something

 

[kokapelli]

I personally believe most of the P238 problems were due people installing the recoil spring backwards. In any event Sig has upgraded the recoil spring and my P238 has the newer spring and has so far been a joy to shoot.

When people point out that there have been problems with the P238 or the TCP and then espouse how trouble free LCPs are try doing a Google search for "LCP problems" and you will get 340,000 items. Hardly what I would call a trouble free gun!

I'm not singling out the LCP but it's been so hyped as trouble free I wanted to point out "it ain't so!"

 

[MCgunner]

I will never understand why some people have to knock pistols other people have without good reason.

Then don't buy a Taurus. Everyone (on the internet at least) will pee in your cherrios. What matters is what works for you. For me, same size as Sig lists that P238, I can carry a high cap Kel Tec 9. I really prefer DA for pocket carry, too. Not into SA guns.

 

[kokapelli]

Then don't buy a Taurus. Everyone (on the internet at least) will pee in your cherrios. What matters is what works for you. For me, same size as Sig lists that P238, I can carry a high cap Kel Tec 9. I really prefer DA for pocket carry, too. Not into SA guns.

I have a TCP and think is a pretty good gun for it's price. I also had a PF9 and it worked ok but my PM9 is so much easier to shoot and far more accurate so the PF9 went bye bye.

 

[benzy2]

When people point out that there have been problems with the P238 or the TCP and then espouse how trouble free LCPs are try doing a Google search for "LCP problems" and you will get 340,000 items. Hardly what I would call a trouble free gun!

I think that stat is a bit misrepresented, at least with the current offerings. The recall and the issues it addressed have to play a large portion of those hits. Add on that the LCP is basically the single pistol that pushed the .380 craze, or at least the biggest player, and those numbers quickly become over inflated compared to the others in the class. How many LCPs do you think are out there per TCP or p238? I bet its well over 20 to 1. I know locally the LCP is and has been one of if not the best seller for many stores. I have asked about their TCP and P238 volume and a couple shops have sold a handful at best and the others haven't sold any.

I won't say every LCP is perfect. I will say mine has been so far. I think currently Ruger is putting out one of the most reliable .380 options made. Maybe the issues with the p238 are user error, I don't know. Maybe the TCP gets a bit of bad press strictly for being Taurus. All I can say for certain is that two LCPs I have are flawless to date. They are both post recall. For me, the current Ruger LCP appears in my eyes to be at the top of the list in the reliability category. And in my eyes that is the single most important factor in a defense pistol.

For fun I googled "LCP problems" and received "about 292,000" results. Then I went to advance search and put exclude all results that include the word recall and the number dropped to 1,310. Something tells me the mass of those hits really were dealing with the recall and pre-recall issues.

 

[kokapelli]

I think that stat is a bit misrepresented, at least with the current offerings. The recall and the issues it addressed have to play a large portion of those hits. Add on that the LCP is basically the single pistol that pushed the .380 craze, or at least the biggest player, and those numbers quickly become over inflated compared to the others in the class. How many LCPs do you think are out there per TCP or p238? I bet its well over 20 to 1. I know locally the LCP is and has been one of if not the best seller for many stores. I have asked about their TCP and P238 volume and a couple shops have sold a handful at best and the others haven't sold any.

I won't say every LCP is perfect. I will say mine has been so far. I think currently Ruger is putting out one of the most reliable .380 options made. Maybe the issues with the p238 are user error, I don't know. Maybe the TCP gets a bit of bad press strictly for being Taurus. All I can say for certain is that two LCPs I have are flawless to date. They are both post recall. For me, the current Ruger LCP appears in my eyes to be at the top of the list in the reliability category. And in my eyes that is the single most important factor in a defense pistol.

For fun I googled "LCP problems" and received "about 292,000" results. Then I went to advance search and put exclude all results that include the word recall and the number dropped to 1,310. Something tells me the mass of those hits really were dealing with the recall and pre-recall issues.

The LCP started the 380 craze! Oh please! Kel-Tec was pumping out 1000 P3ATs a week for at least three years before Ruger even began imitating the P3AT.

Of course those figures are not a true reflection of how many problems there are with the little Ruger but they do show the LCP us not the trouble free pistol a lot of people want us to think it is.

 

[David E]

I shot a Sig .380 I had in the shop recently. This target was the FIRST TIME I'd ever shot it. The gun is very shootable.

Paper was placed 5+ yds away. Start position was high ready. I used a Colt Mustang magazine. (no problems at all)

I used a shot timer, so the time written is the elapsed time from the start signal to the last shot.

If you're comfortable with a .380 for defense, this is a very good choice.

 

[MCgunner]

If I get a micro .380, I'll get the stainless slide TCP without trepidation. I like it, points well, love the stainless slide. But, I can carry my 9x19 Kel Tec or my 9x18 P64 Mak for 99 percent of my carry and never carry the little Grendel P12 I have now. It's a little thicker than the LCP, but otherwise the same size and a couple of ounces heavier. For that, I get 12 rounds capacity. But, I never carry it. The P11 or the P64 carry nearly as small. The P64 is more accurate and the P11 is more accurate and a LOT more powerful. I shoot both of these guns well, so I just really prefer them to any of the .380s I might buy. I doubt I'd ever carry one if I bought it. I might just buy one anyway, but for the fact that .380 brass is hard to come by. 9x19 is all over the ground at the range for the taking.

 

[kokapelli]

If I get a micro .380, I'll get the stainless slide TCP without trepidation. I like it, points well, love the stainless slide. But, I can carry my 9x19 Kel Tec or my 9x18 P64 Mak for 99 percent of my carry and never carry the little Grendel P12 I have now. It's a little thicker than the LCP, but otherwise the same size and a couple of ounces heavier. For that, I get 12 rounds capacity. But, I never carry it. The P11 or the P64 carry nearly as small. The P64 is more accurate and the P11 is more accurate and a LOT more powerful. I shoot both of these guns well, so I just really prefer them to any of the .380s I might buy. I doubt I'd ever carry one if I bought it. I might just buy one anyway, but for the fact that .380 brass is hard to come by. 9x19 is all over the ground at the range for the taking.

The TCP is not a bad choice.

I also thought I would like to carry a 9mm and I have a PM9 that I thought I would carry most of the time, but the size difference between the PM9 and P238/TCP is substantial and I almost always end up carrying a 380.

Here's my P238 and PM9.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't know about the PM9, but the P11 I have near matches the P238 dimensions listed here, fractions of an inch longer and taller, same width, same unloaded weight, though 10 rounds of 9mm weighs a little more in the magazine.

From Sig's website
Overall Length 5.5 in
Overall Height 3.9 in
Overall Width 1.1 in
Weight w/Mag 15.2 oz

From the Kel Tec site:

Weight unloaded: 14 oz. 400g
Loaded magazine: 6 oz. 159g
Length: 5.6" 142mm
Height: 4.3" 109mm
Width: 1" 26mm
Barrel Length: 3.1" 79mm
Sight radius: 4.6" 116mm
Muzzle Energy Max: 400ft-lbs 540J
Capacity: 10 + 1
Trigger Pull: 9 lbs 40N

 

[kokapelli]

I don't know about the PM9, but the P11 I have near matches the P238 dimensions listed here, fractions of an inch longer and taller, same width, same unloaded weight, though 10 rounds of 9mm weighs a little more in the magazine.

Really! Well it may be interest to you to know that the PM9 and P11 have exactly the same dimensions and when I put my PM9 into my pocket it's a very tight fit but when I drop my P238 into my pocket it feels very close to the size of my TCP and or my P-3AT.

Now look at my photo of my P238 and and my PM9 and tell me they are about or nearly the same size!

Here is a shot of my pocket pistol collection with my PM9 and P238 opposite each other on the bottom and despite your opinion that the P11/PM9 and the P238 are approximately the same size, clearly anyone that isn't visually impaired can see that simply isn't the case!