Ruger Security 9, Walther PPS, Sig p365 which to get?

[Ralph III]

Thanks Priler,
No, no. I do not plan on purchasing anything from a local Pawn shop. I have however purchased several from Dahlonega Pawn out of Georgia and recommended them to others because of their low prices. They use drop shipping for online sales. I just stopped by a local one to see if they had any of the guns I was interested in because they have been unavailable at the local guns shops, etc.

Yes, the CCP was upgraded. The CCP m2 doesn't require a break down tool and they included a red striker indicator on the back of the slide. I think the trigger may have been tweaked also.

Ralph

 

[MidRoad]

To OP

I'm in the same boat as you, looking for a new CCW. Many of the guns I am looking at are the same as you. Intoo am very interested in the Kahrs. They feel fantastic. The one thing holding me back is the plethera of magazine issues (particularly the 7 rounders) reported on the web. Magazines emptying in your pockets or not feeding properly. Or the base The base plate walking out during firing. There are a few mods out there you can do for them I guess.

MagGuts has a few kits listed on their web page for kahr,but they aren't released yet. They use your factory magazine,but replace springs and fallower giving you an additional round of capacity. So at 22 bucks a kit you may be able to cure magazine issues and add an additional round of capacity. Win win.

 

[zaitcev]

4. Kahr? These fit a lot of my criteria but they are lower capacity with longer and heavier trigger pulls.

Well, about that. I used to have a Kahr P45, loved the trigger for the same reasons. However, one day I shot S&W Shield 45. The trigger was unpleasantly gritty on it, yuk. Then, I looked at the target, and holy cow. I was noticeably more accurate with it. I decided to suck it up and deal with the Smith's trigger. The timer does not lie and the better feeling, smooth trigger does not necessarily translate into the results.

 

[FL-NC]

I prefer striker fired pistols for trigger consistency., but nearly all of my experience to speak of is with various Glocks and M&P pistols. I have fired the XD and Ruger SR pistols some, as well as some exposure to the Ruger security 9, and they seem just fine to me as well.
I don't care for transitional DA setups, as I like the first shot to be the same as the next 2 or 14. Also, I don't like having to de-cock after using my pistol prior to re-holstering, stowing, etc- it's another step inherent to the DA mechanism I would rather do without.
As far as a "good" trigger, are you really saying a "light" trigger? For self defense (putting rounds quickly into a kill zone to save your life), which differs greatly than the objective of most target shooting (a more controlled environment where tight groups in a scoring ring are the goal) a lighter trigger isn't always the best choice. Also, consider the "practical range" of using a self defense handgun- 20 to 25 yards is considered a pretty long distance in most cases, and almost always I think these things tend to happen at less than half that distance, but naturally, there are some exceptions. Also, consider that some of the prime counterterror organizations switched from race-tuned single actions like 1911's or BHP's (depending upon whom we are talking about) and switched to Glocks, because they found that match grade pistols just weren't needed, among other reasons.

 

[George P]

I have a Sig P365, yes it can be very snappy with hot ammo. Any 9mm that small will be.

Since the P365 doesn't have a manual safety nor a trigger flipper it has a trigger pull more like a good short DA revolver.

I have no problems with the trigger at the range. The P365 is also very accurate.

The 365 can be had with a manual safety
OP - go rent and shoot all of those you're considering and see which one fells the best to you

 

[Madcap_Magician]

1. Walther PPS. This and the Bersa Bp9cc were my top two initial considerations. The trigger is supposed to be excellent on the PPS. Any input in that regards and to it's accuracy and concealability?

2. Sig Sauer p365. Quite honestly I didn't come across this for my initial considerations. It is extremely interesting being so small; however does it's size cause it to be really snappy and does accuracy suffer due to it's size? Also, what is the trigger like at the range?

3. Ruger Security 9 "compact". Ok, this one is really jumping at me! It is a hammer fired pistol with a SA trigger. Man, I can only imagine it is really smooth? Is that the case and how does it carry for ccw work?

4. Kahr? These fit a lot of my criteria but they are lower capacity with longer and heavier trigger pulls. I can get night sights with my top pics at excellent prices as well. So the Kahrs seem low on my list unless someone can convince me they are better than the above?

The Walther PPS is a fine pistol from reports, but I have no personal experience.

The P365 is very shootable. I find it very controllable. It is harder to shoot accurately than a full-size pistol, but I find it almost as comfortable to shoot. The trigger is quite good for a striker-fired subcompact pistol.

The steel Kahr pistols are superior to the polymer ones in recoil, ergonomics, and aesthetics, I think. The K9 is just about the most ergonomically pleasant pistol I've ever held. The triggers are actually not heavier than the striker-fired guns, they are just long with a long-ish reset.

 

[Ralph III]

Hello All,

Instead of responding to everyone I will give a few general responses because obviously there are others who may be going through the same considerations.

I have been shooting for many decades but I've only recently began to conceal carry. In this day and age I felt the need to be able to protect my family while out and about. Consequently, I sold my full size 92fs and purchased several Bersa Thunder 380's for ccw. Those are all DA/SA hammer fired pistols.

I love those guns but I really prefer something with a consistent trigger pull. Consequently, I started considering striker fired 9mm guns. After much consideration, I purchased a Bersa Bp9cc but found the trigger to be quite gritty with a significant "wall" prior to the break. This didn't allow me to be as accurate as I am accustomed to. Both with quick firing, rapid firing and precision firing. I realize a ccw gun may not be a good range gun but I will not carry anything that I cannot be at least acceptably accurate with. The Bp9cc is at the Service Center right now because they feel the trigger or striker mechanisms may have a bur and need servicing.

I however think it is just an inherent feature of most striker fired guns. They just are not as smooth as a good hammer fired gun. So I have been searching for a striker fired with a smooth trigger that would serve well as a ccw.


*The Kahrs have the smoothest trigger by far of the 9mm I have felt. The only striker fired trigger that equals the Kahrs, believe it or not, is my Diamondback Db380. Both however have a very long trigger pull and long reset which can be challenging for rapid fire accuracy. I would have to shoot one to know exactly how challenging this could be.

*The Walther PPQ m2 has probably the next best trigger that I have felt and maybe better suited for self defense. The PPQ models are much wider than I desire in a ccw though. I am hoping the CCP m2 trigger will be similar to it. If so then it would probably suit me fine.

*Yes, I would prefer to shoot all of these guns prior to making a decision but none are available to rent locally. We will be visiting family soon so maybe a few will be available for rent in their home towns. Otherwise, I may resort to purchasing and reselling if needed. That is where I kinda am now.

God Bless,
Ralph

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Hello All,

Instead of responding to everyone I will give a few general responses because obviously there are others who may be going through the same considerations.

I have been shooting for many decades but I've only recently began to conceal carry. In this day and age I felt the need to be able to protect my family while out and about. Consequently, I sold my full size 92fs and purchased several Bersa Thunder 380's for ccw. Those are all DA/SA hammer fired pistols.

I love those guns but I really prefer something with a consistent trigger pull. Consequently, I started considering striker fired 9mm guns. After much consideration, I purchased a Bersa Bp9cc but found the trigger to be quite gritty with a significant "wall" prior to the break. This didn't allow me to be as accurate as I am accustomed to. Both with quick firing, rapid firing and precision firing. I realize a ccw gun may not be a good range gun but I will not carry anything that I cannot be at least acceptably accurate with. The Bp9cc is at the Service Center right now because they feel the trigger or striker mechanisms may have a bur and need servicing.

I however think it is just an inherent feature of most striker fired guns. They just are not as smooth as a good hammer fired gun. So I have been searching for a striker fired with a smooth trigger that would serve well as a ccw.


*The Kahrs have the smoothest trigger by far of the 9mm I have felt. The only striker fired trigger that equals the Kahrs, believe it or not, is my Diamondback Db380. Both however have a very long trigger pull and long reset which is not preferred in a ccw.

*The Walther PPQ m2 has probably the next best trigger that I have felt and maybe better suited for self defense. The PPQ models are much wider than I desire in a ccw though. I am hoping the CCP m2 trigger will be similar to it. If so then it would probably suit me fine.

*Yes, I would prefer to shoot all of these guns prior to making a decision but none are available to rent locally. We will be visiting family soon so maybe a few will be available for rent in their home towns. Otherwise, I may resort to purchasing and reselling if needed. That is where I kinda am now.

God Bless,
Ralph

Actually I prefer the DAO trigger on a CCW. And the Kahr is smooth as butter. I moved away from Light Striker fired triggers a few years agi and never looked back. The Nano and the Kahr both are great "Striker fired, DAO". Not really a true DAO and no restrike capability. For me they seem the best of both worlds. Both guns are very pleasant shooters that you can put a lot of ammo down range in one session. I do not target shoot these guns, only fast action. They are as accurate and fast as much as you want to make them. I like the Kahr in the fact that all there models have the same trigger.I also own the CW380.
I prefer the Kahr over the Nano trigger because it does not have the Glock style trigger safety. Not fond of those. Just a smooth flat surface.Any new model gun I buy in the future, will be a Kahr. JMO

 

[Ralph III]

Hey Jeb,
Yes, I agree with what you are saying. I really need to get my hands on a Kahr to try out some self defense drills to see how the long trigger pull affects me.

Thanks,
Ralph

 

[John_R]

I'm a fan of the Kahr pistols, the trigger is outstanding when you get used to it. It is capable of excellent and consistent accuracy when you do your part. Kahrs are reliable, simple, thin, easy to conceal, and affordable.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Of the guns listed, I like the P365. But the others are good choices too.

 

[viking499]

I have a 365 that I really like. I have never shot a PPS. Have shot a Kahr, but never owned one. Nice shooting gun.
I bought my daughter a Ruger compact that I'm going to give her this weekend so I will know more about it after she opens it up and we get a chance to play with it. For the price, I like the way it feels. Also has a good trigger dry firing it.

 

[Labguy47]

Ruger LC9s with an extended floor plate magazine. Currently carried in a bikini strap OWB. It fits your requirements and takes you back to cheaper ammo, which makes practice a good thing.

 

[Tcruse]

It seems like you need to try Glock 48

 

[Ralph III]

UPDATE TO THREAD

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to update the thread as I made a decision on a pistol. Much thanks to Unclemunzie (and others) for encouraging me to take a closer look at the Kahr pistols. I ended up purchasing a Kahr S9 last week and was able to shoot it yesterday. It is absolutely sweet and performs exactly as I desire in a pistol! I just did not like any of the other striker fired guns triggers, period. The pull and feel varies on all of them which I do not like. They are all excellent guns, just not my personal preference in a trigger.

The Kahrs have a longer pull BUT the trigger is absolutely consistent, extremely smooth and they don't have that ridiculous wall prior to the break! The gun just fires after some unbeknownst point which I am more accustomed to. I prefer this type trigger because it encourages you to stay on target. Absolutely sweet!

Anyhow, here is my impression of the Kahr S9.

1. It is a good looking gun.

2. It feels good in the hand and a very nice weight for a ccw.

3. It is an excellent size for a ccw. The gun actually seems more like a full size than a smaller ccw to me, which is a good thing. It however will conceal very well, especially given it is only .90in. wide.

4. Recoil was excellent. It jumps slightly more than my Bersa Bp9cc but only slightly. That is impressive considering it is smaller and quite a bit lighter than the Bersa.

5. The gun is highly accurate! Keep in mind, I had never shot a Kahr nor a gun with bar-dot sights as mine mistakenly arrived with. So I was really happy with my results on my first outing. All shots are free hand and one take so I didn't cherry pick results. The makeshift bullseye on the board targets is right at 2in.

**At 15 ft my 7 shot grouping was 2in. These were my first shots and I wasn't sure exactly how to aim with the bar-dots. The lower right shot was a pulled shot, btw. I considered this an excellent start to the range session.View media item 2505
*At 20 ft my 14 shot grouping was about 2 1/4 in.View media item 2506
*At 50 ft my 7 shot grouping was 3 in. Oddly, I was pulling those to the right but again I was trying to figure out the bar-dot sights. No matter, consistency/groupings is all I was interested in. This got me real excited because my groupings with my Bp9cc was extremely poor at around 14 in or so, if lucky. This type grouping is comparable to what I get with my Bersa Thunder 380's in single action mode. View media item 2507
*At 90 ft my 7 shot grouping was 6 1/2 in on the silhouette target. I shoot from that distance on occasion mostly for kicks and giggles but also for precision purposes. It tells me a lot about a gun and it makes the bullseye from 20ft and 30ft seem basketball size. So it generates a lot of confidence when you step up to shorter distances. I always practiced with my compound bow in this manner.View media item 2508
6. Rapid fire and quick fire at 15ft was excellent as well, the gun points well. This was one of my major concerns with the longer Kahr trigger pull but I had absolutely no issues with it at all! I could shoot it as quickly as I desired and it remained on target. My results with rapid/quick fire was impressive because I expected it to be slower but it wasn't at all. I also never had an issue with trigger reset. My Kahr S9 pull weight is about 6.25lbs.

7. I ran about 100 rds through it yesterday using Fiocchi FMJ 115gr and American Eagle FMJ 115. In all those rounds, I only had two shots that I'd consider trigger jerks. Even with those two flyers they were still within inches of where I was aiming.

All in all, I was extremely pleased. I plan on adding some three dot night sights and I may install the Galloway spring kit in order to get the pull weight around 5lbs.

God Bless,
Ralph

 

[crcr29683]

I don’t know if it’s still a problem with the BP9CC, but early on they had a common issue of gunky striker assemblies straight from the factory.
A detailed strip and cleaning made a big difference on mine.
I thought it had a pretty good trigger once cleaned thoroughly.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

UPDATE TO THREAD


Hello everyone!

I just wanted to update the thread as I made a decision on a pistol. Much thanks to Unclemunzie for encouraging me to take a closer look at the Kahr pistols. I ended up purchasing a Kahr S9 last week and was able to shoot it yesterday. It is absolutely sweet and performs exactly as I desire in a pistol! I just did not like any of the other striker fired guns triggers, period. The pull and feel varies on all of them which I do not like. They are all excellent guns, just not my personal preference in a trigger.

The Kahrs have a longer pull BUT the trigger is absolutely consistent, extremely smooth and they don't have that ridiculous wall prior to the break! The gun just fires after some unbeknownst point which I am more accustomed to. I prefer this type trigger because it encourages you to stay on target. Absolutely sweet!

Anyhow, here is my impression of the Kahr S9.

1. It is a good looking gun.

2. It feels good in the hand and a very nice weight for a ccw.

3. It is an excellent size for a ccw. The gun actually feels more like a full size than a smaller ccw to me, which is a good thing. It however will conceal very well, especially given it is only .90in. wide.

4. Recoil was excellent. It jumps slightly more than my Bersa Bp9cc but only slightly. That is impressive considering it is smaller and quite a bit lighter than the Bersa.

5. The gun is highly accurate! Keep in mind, I had never shot a Kahr nor a gun with bar-dot sights as mine mistakenly arrived with. So I was really happy with my results on my first outing. All shots are free hand and one take. I didn't cherry pick results.

**At 15 ft my 7 shot grouping was 2in. These were my first shots and I wasn't sure exactly how to aim with the i-dots. So I considered this an excellent start.

*At 20 ft my 14 shot grouping was 2 1/4 in.

*At 50 ft my 7 shot grouping was 3 in. This got me real excited because my groupings with my Bp9cc was extremely poor at around 14 in or so, if lucky. This type grouping is comparable to what I get with my Bersa Thunder 380's in single action mode. I was stoked at this point.

*At 90 ft my 7 shot grouping was 6 1/2 in. I shoot from that range on occasion mostly for kicks and giggles but also for precision purposes. It tells me a lot about a gun and it makes the bullseye from 20ft and 30ft seem basketball size. So it generates a lot of confidence when you step up to shorter distances. I always practiced with my compound bow in this manner.

6. Rapid fire and quick fire at 15ft was excellent as well. This was one of my major concerns with the longer Kahr trigger pull but I had absolutely no issues with it at all! I could shoot it as quickly as I desired and it remained on target. My results with rapid/quick fire was impressive because I expected it to be slower but it wasn't at all. I also never had an issue with trigger reset.

I will post some images later and finish the review, so please wait to respond.

Congrats!! I knew you would like a Kahr. Great shooters, Might just have to get the S9 to add to the one's I have.

 

[Ralph III]

quote by CrCr. "I don’t know if it’s still a problem with the BP9CC, but early on they had a common issue of gunky striker assemblies straight from the factory. A detailed strip and cleaning made a big difference on mine. I thought it had a pretty good trigger once cleaned thoroughly."

Hey CrCr. Yes, that is correct. A lot of guns, especially manufactured in foreign countries, will often come packed with grease so they should be cleaned prior to taking them to the range.

The trigger on my Bp9cc was quite gritty though and shooting/cleaning/working it did no good. I ended up sending it in to the Gun Doctor who found the trigger was rubbing against the frame. Anyhow, he smoothed the trigger out at which point the trigger was then significantly smoother. It also decreased the pull from 5.5lbs down to 3.75lbs.

None of which improved my accuracy with it though. I love my Bersa guns and the Bp9cc is a fine pistol that most folks would be highly proficient with. I just couldn't get used to it's typical striker fired trigger. You have some take-up, then a mushy and/or somewhat gritty pull that then comes to a wall, then a heavier pull to the break. The Bp9cc, the Walthers, Sig Sauers and Smith & Wessons (strikers) are all fine guns and most folks would consider the triggers spectacular. My preference on the other hand is the Kahr type trigger which is silky smooth like my current and former da/sa pistols. Smooth all the way to the break.

God Bless,
Ralph

 

[Ralph III]

Thanks Jeb Stuart! You were correct!

From another southerner, have a good-ole-day.

Ralph