S&B Primer Pockets

[d'Artagnan]

1. So now that S&B primers are available for reloading here, I decided to prove/disprove the stories I've heard about S&B primer pockets being tight and people having trouble seating other brands in them. Previously, I have chosen primers to match the brand of case thinking that they were designed/optimized for each other. So I deprimed, cleaned, and primed 5@ S&B 9x19 10 or 11 cases with: Federal, Remington, Winchester, CCI, Fiocchi, S&B, and Magtech primers. Without doubt the hardest to seat were the Federal primers, then 3 out of 5 S&B primers seated without difficulty but the other 2 were as difficult as the Federals. The easiest to seat were Winchester, 3 out of the 5 S&B, and Magtech. Remington, CCI, and Fiocchi all seated with little difference in pressure, same as they seat in Remington, Speer/CCI/Blazer, and Fiocchi cases, respectively. Every brand but S&B seated uniformly with only the Federal and some S&B primers requiring more than usual pressure.
2. Now what was I going to do with all these primed cases? I loaded each with 5gr Unique and a 125gr lead bullet and fired them in my Astra 600. Those strings I thought held promise I repeated. Average muzzle velocity and bullet placement were as follows:
Federal 1215/1206.2 mostly dead on, 2 of 10 4in at 9:00
Remington 1201.2 4in high
CCI 1186.6 2in high
Winchester 1189.4 less than 1in high
Fiocchi 1191.8 strung from 8:00 to 2:00
S&B 1190.6/1206 2in at 8:00/2in high
Magtech 1196/1201.5 dead on with bullets keyholing/dead on
3. Muzzle velocities of 1200fps are too hot for the Astra-600. 4.0 Unique gives a more useful around 1080fps.
4. Primers obviously make a difference.

 

[rcmodel]

O.K.

I just loaded about 500 S&B 9mm for my son last fall and I had no problems at all priming them with CCI primers and a RCBS hand priming tool.

No different then the other 500 Win and Starline I loaded at the same time.

I load a lot of S&B .380 ACP for myself and have no problems with them either.

rc

 

[Rule3]

I use Wolf primers and have no problem with SB brass. I can feel when I hit one, it is a little more force required but I would not call it a "problem" Using Winchester primers it is a bit easier but can still feel a bit of a difference.

Tight is good.

 

[1SOW]

Maybe "on-press' priming is where primer size/fit problems show up first, depending on the press.

 

[steveno]

I had the tight primers pockets with 38 special and 45 acp. I don't save that brass anymore. However once you do get the cases primed they seem to last fairly well. just not worth the hassle to me

 

[gamestalker]

I've heard of some having complaints about S&B brass in general, but nothing about primer's fitting, not fitting correctly. I've reloaded a fair amount of S&B as well, and I used CCI and didn't notice any difference what so ever.

 

[amlevin]

My issue with S&B cases isn't that the primer pockets are tight, just that they don't have much radius on the mouth of the pocket.

I just run them through the swager like a rifle case and there's no problem.

 

[LiveLife]

I decided to prove/disprove the stories I've heard about S&B primer pockets being tight and people having trouble seating other brands in them.

Make sure your test includes "once-fired" S&B cases. I hand and press prime my cases and S&B once-fired cases definitely take extra effort to seat Winchester primers fully to .004" below flush. Once fired S&B cases with larger Wolf/Tula primers are "NO-GO" for me. When I encounter resistance at the start of primer seating, I check to see if I got military crimp primer pockets and often they are tight primer pocket S&B cases.

Maybe "on-press' priming is where primer size/fit problems show up first, depending on the press.

Absolutely! When I press prime on the Pro 1000 with "less than perfect" gravity based priming attachment, I tend to prefer using Winchester primers as they seat better/easier than Tula/Wolf. With S&B cases with tighter primer pockets, even with Winchester primers, I have to grab the frame with my left hand as I press harder with my right hand on the ram lever with a "Oooommmmph!".

 

[Blue68f100]

The only S&B brass that I found tight are the ones with the RED Sealer on the primers. These have the primers crimped and sealed. I seperate these and run them through my swedger or I use my pocket reamer on them. After that they primer like all the rest of my brass.

 

[Fishslayer]

S&B definitely makes a distinctive "ping!" when decapping and sometimes needs a bit of futzing to seat a primer, but I've never had one fail to accept a primer. I use CCI & Winchester primers in 9mm, .38/.357 & .45ACP.

I use range pickup brass & sort by headstamp. I get a noticable variation in seating effort from case to case even within the same group of non S&B headstamps.

 

[Walkalong]

I had the tight primers pockets with 38 special and 45 acp. I don't save that brass anymore.

Just pack em up and send them to me.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Perhaps 15 years ago I bought a whole bunch of S&B ammo from SGI in Ohio when they had it on sale. I was able to purchase a number of foreign calibers that were not usually very easy to find with boxer primers and also non corrosive. They had 303 British, 7.62X54 Russian, 8MM, 6.5X55 Swede, 9X18 Makarov, and I bought several cases of each. You could buy surplus ammo in those calibers a little cheaper, but not by that much.

Perhaps the S&B ammo today has different primer pockets, but the S&B ammo I got back then was and still is great brass. I never had any problem sizing or repriming, and I used CCI, Remington, and Winchester primers. It has been great brass for me.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[thorn-]

I find SB 9mm used brass to be so tight to decap and resize that when I first encountered it, I thought I was going to snap something in the process.

It's still usually still that tight, but every one i've used has seated a primer (though more effort than other brass) and worked well.

thorn

 

[mallc]

Never know it

I know I have a few hundred in the coffee cans I load for season. I too hear that little primer crunch on the 650 but never a problem or a mis-seated primer.

Scott

 

[evan price]

Yeah, the S&B brass reloading with Wolf primers is a bear especially. But it works, you just need to squash them suckers in there.

 

[GLOOB]

Personally, I can always feel the difference on an S&B primer pocket in 9mm and 45 ACP. But I assume the extra effort is usually only a problem with hand priming tools with little leverage. Or for working a progressive press where it can throw off your rhythm. I've never considered it to be an issue, at all, on my single stage.

It might be different between lots, but another area where I have had different results than the OP is with the Remingtons. I found the 1 1/2's much easier to seat than any other SPP I've tried. All the rest are more or less the same, but the Rem's went in with barely any resistance. The 1 1/2's have the thinner cups than the other Rem SPP, so that might be part of the reason.

 

[TigerBight]

no problem here.

No problem here with S&B brass depriming in my Rock Chucker or repriming with the CCI primer I use. It seems to work well.

 

[Clark]

Depth min max diameter min max
small rifle primer pocket .117 .123 .1730 .1745
small pistol primer pocket .117 .123 .1730 .1745
Large rifle primer pocket .125 .132 .2085 .2100
Large pistol primer pocket .117 .123 .2085 .2100


Height min max Diameter min max
Small rifle primers .115 .125 .1745 .1765
small pistol primers .115 .125 .1745 .1765
large rifle primers .123 .133 .2105 .2130
large pistol primers .115 .125 .2100 .2120"

SAAMI specifications on primers and primer pockets per "Sinclair International's Precision Reloading & Shooting Handbook" 10th edition 1999


I have had no problem with the S&B 7.62x54R brass meeting these general dimension tolerances.
But 10 years ago I had a problem with the radius down in the corner.
A Lyman pocket uniformer tool will fix it, by making little brass chips.

 

[1SOW]

The only S&B brass that I found tight are the ones with the RED Sealer on the primers. These have the primers crimped and sealed. I seperate these and run them through my swedger or I use my pocket reamer on them. After that they primer like all the rest of my brass.

I'm lucky enough to have plentiful 9mm range pick-up brass. I've never paid for a 9mm case. I also don't have to go through additional processing to have 5X as many cases as I can shoot.

I throw 9mm S&B, WCC, et al in my damaged brass storage for later sale at the scrap yard.

 

[kingmt]

I ran some through the sizing die & thought they felt odd then they primed tight. I set the loaded case on the desk. It jumped to the magnet setting a few inches away.

 

[evan price]

@ kingmt:

S&B also makes a variation of the 9mm which has a brass-plated steel case. They use an identical case in all brass as well and the onyl way to tell the two apart is the magnet. Has a red primer sealer. I keep a sample of the two in my odditties box for show and tell.