S&W is overrated...

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I really like my M&P core 9L. 10K+ rounds now and 3 FTF malfunctions, 2 of which were limp wrist malfs in the first couple hundred rounds by a young shooter. Very accurate. I've won a couple local handgun matches with it. OEM trigger was shootable, Apex made it better. Only thing I don't like about the pistol is the way they connect the trigger spring. PITA.
 
This debate comparing S&W vs Ruger breaks out like range fires in the summer. S&W was about a Century old when a USMC Capt. gave Bill Ruger 2 rare Baby Nambu pistols.
Bill retired to his shop where he made hand tools. As the legend goes. Ruger copied the Nambu and had made his first .22 Auto by sun up.
These are both fine arms companies. We are lucky to have these manufactures in America. And if you own their stock right now you are hitting "Bullseyes".:D
 
After taking the time to read the OP and the subsequent replies, let me first say that I have never found a perfect duty size, duty priced, duty grade pistol. I've tried, but it's never happened. I've owned an M&P45 for the past three years and shot it plenty, and while I like it and wouldn't trade it, still not a perfect pistol. The trigger was bad out of the box, and at my police academy when almost every person there (of 40) had an M&P instead of a Glock, because it was just months after Sandy Hook and Glocks were $800 locally, I saw at least 7-8 where the factory night sights fell apart after a couple hundred rounds. OTOH, they fit the hand very well, give the shooter of the option to have a manual safety, and I have yet to see any fitment or accuracy issues. I still consider them to be good pistols, because even though they have some rough edges out of the box, they are easily transformed into excellent pistols with a few modifications.

Here's the thing, people are entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean you (or me) need to place any importance on that opinion. Generally, being a competitive shooter, I don't place much importance on people's opinions unless they can show me something from their real life that demonstrates they have risen above the crowd of recreational shooters. And that certainly excludes the "I've owned a lot of guns so I should know" gun forum mentality. Outside of people who have actively refined their craft and have some known standard to compare themselves against, opinions are random. People are entitled to them, but another person could just come along and say the exact opposite and neither is the wiser. I'm not saying the OP does or doesn't fall into this category, because I don't follow him, but that's my standard for deciding which opinions I consider important.
 
The manufacturing brand wars comprised of Right - Wrong & Indifferent usually based on a limited sample to the existent of a sample of one. Opinions everyone has one, what matters is it based on experience and how extensive was that experience. I saw it on U-Tube.
 
I recently bought a Ruger 9-E for $300 out the door and in my opinion, its the best full size 9mm value out there. I would say its equivalent to the M@P for at least $100 less money.

The M@P's have never really drawn me in.
 
iu

:neener:
An exploded view of the Glock system. nice.
 
Well, since the OP's last statement that he is a "defender of belief," I would just offer that basing one's beliefs on a sample size of exactly one doesn't normally impress the "seekers of truth" when it comes to touting one's beliefs publicly.
 
"I've never been thrilled by the quality of S&W revolver"

I've been shooting, and hanging around shooters, for 50+ years, and I've never heard anybody utter those words.....
 
this is not just a rant about the M&P. I've never been thrilled by the quality of S&W revolvers, nor have I ever noticed any difference in quality between S&W AR15s and other equivalently priced AR15s from other manufacturers,

Yet you bought one of the cheapest centerfire pistols they make and I assume with higher expectations?
 
Yet you bought one of the cheapest centerfire pistols they make and I assume with higher expectations?

The M&P isn't "one of the cheapest centerfire pistols" they make. It is their flagship line, they don't make a more expensive or featured duty pistol.
 
basing one's beliefs on a sample size of exactly one
my sample size is half a dozen pistols spread out over the last 5 years, this is merely the only M&P I've ever bought. but pray, do tell how many thousands of dollars of my hard earned money am I to spend on the same model of handgun before I have enough of a sample size to convince other's of the credibility of my claims? you have worked with a great deal, over 300, I can only assume that you are an armorer for a very large police department, otherwise I can only assume that you either sell them, and base your claims on the fact that once you sell them, they never come back to your shop. in the if you are not an armorer, then I can only assume you base your claims off the fact that you haven't heard any of your fellow officers complaining about their arms, and does not actually constitute experience with 300+. in any case I know first hand the indoctrination that people go through to convince them that the arms they are issued(or the ones they sell) are the best around and that they will never fail and I know enough about appropriation contracts and acceptance trials to know better.
Yet you bought one of the cheapest centerfire pistols they make and I assume with higher expectations?
wrong, that would be the sigma and sigma derived lines, the M&P is their top tier semi auto line. all other semi autos have been discontinued.
 
Go here.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/pistols

Where is says "price"

Click on the three most expensive price levels and see if the pistol you bought is in one of them. If not look in the bottom two levels.

Not sure what you paid for yours but they can be had under $350.

http://www.gunbuyer.com/p-13662-smi...-3-barrel-7181-single-stack-black-180021.aspx

To the $430 range if it's not a shield version.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...h+&+Wesson/S&W+Pistols/S&W+M&P9+17+1+9mm+4.25

My question remains, if you have always though negative of them why did you buy another with higher expectations?
 
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Where is says "price"

Click on the three most expensive price levels and see if the pistol you bought is in one of them. If not look in the bottom two levels.
you're cherry picking results. I stand corrected on price, I forget that S&W offered 1911s, however custom shop firearms are hardly an indicator of a higher quality mass production line, they are limited edition, and hand fitted items, not common, off the shelf items. the gun I purchased has an MSRP of $570, they usually retail a little under $500 to $550 in my area which is pretty standard for M&Ps in my area. the shield has an MSRP of $450 and usually retails for $350, however the shield single stacks and the service models don't command the same price.
My question remains, if you have always though negative of them why did you buy another with higher expectations?
perhaps it remains because you never asked it in the first place. you asked why I bought one of the cheapest guns they make and expected good performance.
to answer both questions, I bought it, because I really was trying to determine if comments like these were valid.
the company has substantially improved the accuracy (revamped the barrels) and the triggers (if you've procured a specimen from the last year and a half
One of the better .45 polymer guns in its class

like any other shooter, I have a certain set of personal tastes which the M&P disagrees with, however there are a certain amount that it does agree with. I'm not saying that the gun is garbage, I'm not saying it's useless, or that it's bad. what I'm saying is that I purchased a gun that is supposed to fit in the same price bracket as most glocks, Springfield XD, Ruger SR, FN Herstal FNS, and Beretta PX4, service pistol lines, and it does not compare favorably to any of the competition in terms of fit, finish, and accuracy. believe it or not, my opinion of the M&P line has actually improved since purchasing this handgun, but I will not claim that it is the equal of other similarly priced handguns of different brands.

I recently bought a Ruger 9-E for $300 out the door and in my opinion, its the best full size 9mm value out there. I would say its equivalent to the M@P for at least $100 less money.
I would not say it's better across the board, but it's better for many different reasons. my 9E already has pretty noticeable wear in the cheaper bluing, and if I didn't already have spare mags from owning a SR9C I would be pretty upset about the fact that it only comes with one magazine, but I would largely agree, I've had no failures, it is more accurate, the ergonomics are good, and the trigger is pretty decent. the only thing that I would like would be a slightly larger safety lever, but I've never failed to actuate it under stress, it's just a preference thing.
 
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Go here.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/pistols

Where is says "price"

Click on the three most expensive price levels and see if the pistol you bought is in one of them. If not look in the bottom two levels.

Not sure what you paid for yours but they can be had under $350.

http://www.gunbuyer.com/p-13662-smi...-3-barrel-7181-single-stack-black-180021.aspx

To the $430 range if it's not a shield version.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/38991/Firearms/Handguns/Smith+&+Wesson/S&W+Pistols/S&W+M&P9+17+1+9mm+4.25

My question remains, if you have always though negative of them why did you buy another with higher expectations?

Don't be an troll. No one is talking about the Shield. Feel free to disagree with the OP, but we are talking about the full size M&P 9mm, not the Shield.
 
like any other shooter, I have a certain set of personal tastes which the M&P disagrees with, however there are a certain amount that it does agree with. I'm not saying that the gun is garbage, I'm not saying it's useless, or that it's bad. what I'm saying is that I purchased a gun that is supposed to fit in the same price bracket as most glocks, Springfield XD, Ruger SR, FN Herstal FNS, and Beretta PX4, service pistol lines, and it does not compare favorably to any of the competition in terms of fit, finish, and accuracy. believe it or not, my opinion of the M&P line has actually improved since purchasing this handgun, but I will not claim that it is the equal of other similarly priced handguns of different brands.

While I don't agree with you, I will say that I agree with the fact that not everything has to be black or white, good or bad, excellent or garbage. There are some in this conversation that aren't grasping that idea.
 
well, at least somebody gets it. even if he doesn't get it, I guess I just have to work on my S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats;)
 
Don't be an troll. No one is talking about the Shield. Feel free to disagree with the OP, but we are talking about the full size M&P 9mm, not the Shield.

Ok, $430 at the link in the same post you quoted, still more than $1000 from the top of the line.

I don't like the m&p either but I also didn't buy one expecting them to be better than anyother S&W I own, and I have owned and own a number of them.

Lets say, I have an opinion that McDonald's burgers "suck" for the last 30 years and I buy another one tomorrow and it still "sucks", again in my opinion, is there any reason I should be surprised?

You don't like them, I get it, just quit buying them. It's really that easy...
 
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more than 1000 from a custom engraved, and hand fitted firearm. again you are cherry picking results and comparing mass production with custom work.
 
Did you even click on the link I provided?

These firearms are offered with a variety of enhancements yet still remain true to "stock."

That is from the highest priced centerfire pistol at the link I posted.

If you want "custom engraved" and such that will just make one more expensive as will one "enhanced" by the "performance center".

Seems like you thought whatever model M&P you wound up with was a turd compared to
Ruger SR9 compact, LC9s, and 9E, a Springfield XD-s 9mm, and a Canik TP9SF

So I don't think I am cherry picking, rather thinking you could be happy and save money.
 
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since you obviously have not attempted to understand a single point I've tried to make in this thread, I will no longer bicker with you. I never once said it was a turd and you have quite obviously allowed emotion to control your interpretation of my posts rather than logic. enjoy your M&P.
 
since you obviously have not attempted to understand a single point I've tried to make in this thread, I will no longer bicker with you. I never once said it was a turd and you have quite obviously allowed emotion to control your interpretation of my posts rather than logic. enjoy your M&P.

I don't own an M&P, I was just going from what you have posted.

ok, I'm throwing on my flame suit for this one....
the fit is horrible, the slop in the slide, especially when dissassembling and reassembling is the worst of any handgun I have ever owned....the trigger is heavy, even when compared to single stacks like the XD-s and LC9S...the M&P is the least accurate...I will never buy another...

What point(s) am I not understanding? I actually think we might agree on some points, likey not that the M&P is the "flagship" of their line but I'm not sure you claimed that anyway.
 
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my sample size is half a dozen pistols spread out over the last 5 years, this is merely the only M&P I've ever bought. but pray, do tell how many thousands of dollars of my hard earned money am I to spend on the same model of handgun before I have enough of a sample size to convince other's of the credibility of my claims? you have worked with a great deal, over 300, I can only assume that you are an armorer for a very large police department, otherwise I can only assume that you either sell them, and base your claims on the fact that once you sell them, they never come back to your shop. in the if you are not an armorer, then I can only assume you base your claims off the fact that you haven't heard any of your fellow officers complaining about their arms, and does not actually constitute experience with 300+. in any case I know first hand the indoctrination that people go through to convince them that the arms they are issued(or the ones they sell) are the best around and that they will never fail and I know enough about appropriation contracts and acceptance trials to know better.
A half-dozen? Surely you put them through the wringer, shooting hundreds of rounds before finally deciding to purchase the only M&P you've ever owned, right?

Nope, not currently an armorer -- though I have been one -- and never sold guns as a retailer. I am, however, a fairly experienced (former) military and (current) law enforcement firearms instructor with a metric butt-ton of experience shooting, watching folks shoot, field-stripping/disassembling, maintaining and cleaning the M&P line.

And gosh, it's great that you know first hand the indoctrination we law enforcement persons go through in order to brainwash us in believing our issued guns are the best around and will never fail ... oh, wait: seriously? You just said that? On the internet? Sure you want to go on record with that statement, because that's pretty much a slam on all of us in blue, almost insulting. You really think we don't know any better? If you do think that, then I do have a more serious issue with you. And you also know "enough" about appropriation contracts and acceptance trials to "know better?" Pray tell: elaborate. I'm all ears. I'll be up another two or three hours ...

At any rate, I'm not a huge fan of S&W, except for its 3rd Generation autoloaders and all its revolvers made prior to 1994 (which I love). Personally, I'd rather pack a SIG, H&K, Beretta or CZ on duty. I just won't let you come around and say an entire manufacturer's line is "over-rated" based on the fact that you didn't like the one pistol you bought.
 
I have no love for the M&P line, but they seem to function fine, and they are pretty decent looking, unlike a lot of polymer guns. Back a while, someplace had trade in M&P 9mm full sized pistols really cheap. I forgot about them being available so I missed getting one. A friend bought one of the 9's and a 40 "Unissued" from Bud's. The used gun functions fine and I would grade it at 90%+. It's trigger is odd, but it shoots fine. The unissued gun was new, and I don't think it was fired after it left the factory. It has the same weird trigger the 9 does and accuracy is good, if not great.

But soon after, PSA had FNH FNS-40's for $369 and I grabbed one. Just because it was cheap. I would have preferred a 9mm, and a hammer fired FNX-9 instead, but I decided to give it a try. It's a great gun. My only complaint about it is the overly aggressively "checkering" on the grip. It's the one thing that makes it almost certainly the gun I will be selling soon. Rather than going at it with sandpaper to take the points off, I will sell it instead. I think it's a better gun than the M&P in every way, but the M&P guns are much more pleasant to shoot, and in the .40, a whole lot more pleasant. I don't know why they are selling so cheap, but if you can stand the grip, or don't care about resale value, it's a good buy. I have a lot of other guns I would much rather shoot. With gloves on, it's tolerable, if barehanded, my nickname for it is
"Cheesegrater Jr", with the old S&W revolver grips being "Cheesegrater Sr". I swapped those grips on my 19 about 10 minutes after I shot it the first time. The FNH grip isn't as bad, but it's just overdone. I greatly prefer the "sandpaper" grips of my Taurus PT111 G2 than checkered grips, and I like grooved ones most of all. I have no shortage of grip power and the smooth grips of the gun in my avatar are just dandy.

My favorite S&W guns are the 3rd gen semiautos and the N frame revolvers, the old pinned and recessed ones. The new ones, they can keep 'em.
 
It's perfectly clear when tahunus001 started this thread saying, "ok, I'm throwing on my flame suit for this one" he was looking to stir the pot so why are you all falling for the trap? Why does anyone care if he buys and dislikes a pistol he knew he didn't like before he bought it?

In this case the words "don't feed the troll" seem to fit.
 
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