S&W service - they don't answer the phone...and then it gets worse!

Status
Not open for further replies.
A note was enclosed with a person's name. It said there was "excess lead in the barrel". Guess I'll have to do a better job cleaning the barrel on this residue accumulating aluminum .22. I've been running a bore snake with some cleaning fluid through it. I'll be more diligent.

Then it said: "Excess thread lock on the yoke screw. this limited the yoke screw plunger travel and was not holding the yoke in place properly. This causes the cylinder to rub the barrel and bind."

So then the locking up problem was caused by my excess application of Locktite?! But it only locked up after shooting it a few cylinders full. Until then it worked OK.

Finally he said, "Excess dirt and firings from under the extractor." As i said above the extractor is very hard to work after just a few shots. "Dirt and firings" must accumulate very quickly. Do i have to clean it while practicing, every 16 shots or so?

The first time i sent this gun to S&W they just returned it to me with no notes and apparently nothing done.

I never had any problems like these with any other gun.
 
Last edited:
I hate to say it because I really like S&W products but next time buy Ruger. They have the beast CS in the business. As for the aluminum cylinder use jeweller's rouge in each cylinder that sticks after cleaning. Its not a great fix but it does work.
 
Last edited:
I hate to say it because I really like S&W products but next time buy Ruger. They have the beast CS in the business. As for the aluminum cylinder use jeweller's rouge in each cylinder that sticks after cleaning. Its not a great fix but it does work.



Jewelers's rouge? Where exactly would you put that in the cylinder? How can I make the extractor easier to push?

I read that their newest slightly heavier fully enclosed hammer (but I like the single action on my 317 even tho the hammer is ard to grip!) aluminum gun, the model 34C, also has the seizing up problem.

Well, it did work much better yesterday. It actually kept on working! The only problems were the extractor being so hard to push, and the failures to fire with two rounds, but I guess that's to be expected with bulk ammo.
 
I own two S&W firearms. The M&P Shield 9 and the M&P 2.0 9 5". So far so good with the firearms not giving me any trouble.
 
Jewelers's rouge? Where exactly would you put that in the cylinder? How can I make the extractor easier to push?

I read that their newest slightly heavier fully enclosed hammer (but I like the single action on my 317 even tho the hammer is ard to grip!) aluminum gun, the model 34C, also has the seizing up problem.

You put it (rouge) on your brass brush and put the brush on your electric drill. Then you run it through the business ends of each cylinder, where the expanded cases get stuck. basically you are polishing each cylinder. Extractors have springs and to lighten any spring you merely remove a couple of twists, or buy a lighter spring. That pretty much sums up my knowledge where this is concerned. I have personally used the rouge trick on lots of .22 WMR revolvers over the years and it really works. The hard part is finding rouge.
 
I have had the worst customer service from S&W in the industry. Have a family heirloom I've tried to get fixed on (4) seperate occasions with their service dept. (4) Times because I gave up after getting so discouraged. Never made it past talking on the phone each time. They wouldn't even let me handle my claim. Try talking a GS into handling a claim for my problem on something I didn't buy from said GS because it has to be shipped through them......That being said I will never own or purchase another S&W product. Ever. Very sad to open the safe and be reminded about something from your family that doesn't operate, that you can't get the manufacturer to fix.

I feel your aggravation!!!

I've had other great experiences with other companies that have fixed products that didn't work correctly with no issues.
I don’t know how old your heirloom is but, S&W will not work on gun manufactured prior to a certain date. I am not certain of that date but, perhaps someone here can provide that information.
 
Jeweler's rough comes in different grades depending on how much you want to remove via polishing.

JB Bore bright is the same stuff already graded for gun use. The gray is a bit more harsh and the red does a bit less polishing. In cleaning a bore or cylinder, you use the gray if it is pretty rough or the red if you have already lapped it with the gray or you have a new gun that should theoretically be clean.

Regarding fixing old firearms--S&W is a business that manufactures and sells firearms. The parts and repair business is a sideline necessary to help them sell firearms (and the parts come as a byproduct of manufacturing them). As firearms age just like every other mechanical device, they often need repairs on parts that commonly wear or those parts accidentally damaged by the user. They also have warranty claims. At a certain point, a model stops selling, the parts to repair them are mostly sold or used, and the inventory carrying costs get too great. They then sell the remainder of the parts to places like Numrich or Sarco.

Most people never think about where the parts come from but they have to be manufactured and then stocked into a warehouse. During that time, the machines, tooling, and even how the part was made and functions within a firearm fade, it also costs a bunch of money to keep a parts warehouse going--both in labor and inventory carrying costs (warehouse, insurance, utilities, inventorying, spoilage, and property taxes). Smith and Wesson is not going to reopen an assembly line for parts on a revolver last made in 1945 (let's say a Victory model)-they likely do not have the machines, tooling, the technology, nor the workers to reproduce the parts which will cost a lot to replicate. What's worse is that these parts were often then handfitted to some extent (to a great extent for Colts) to a particular revolver--they are not mostly drop and fit. So even if they could make the parts, the parts would require handfitting by a craftsman familiar with the Victory model. At the same time, they would also be competing where a bunch of old parts are out there in parts warehouses or through junking old firearms which would hold the prices received for the parts down. There is no way to make a profit.

Imagine complaining about your Ford dealer because they will not service or provide parts for your Model A as an example.

To that end, S&W will give technical support to individual gunsmiths to let them take on these headaches and a good gunsmith can make and alter/fabricate/reuse parts if necessary to individually fit a firearm.

As a side not, while people are cursing the MIM process, on the flip side, molding technology is easier and cheaper to make small runs rather than the old style forging and machining. Done right, it can also have tighter specifications thus lessening the old handfitting problem. It just might allow for parts to be made in small batches to do warranty work for a longer period of time on a number of firearms.

Direct from the horse's mouth,

"Smith & Wesson’s Lifetime Service Policy begins after the warranty period has expired. Smith & Wesson will repair, without charge, for the lifetime of the original owner, any Smith & Wesson handgun purchased on or after February 1, 1989, and any M&P15 series rifle, that is found to have a defect in material or workmanship." https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/warranty

Note: the warranty only applies to defects in materials and workmanship--not ordinary wear and tear or abuse. They do no promise to fix any and all Smith and Wesson firearms either nor to provide parts for them.

Ruger does not have a written warranty for example and people have been upset with them too--one example with when the original firearm had a forged part and it was replaced during service with an MIM or cast part.

Have a family heirloom, go to an excellent gunsmith or a reputable shop such as Cylinder and Slide, Turnbull, etc. and pay the man for his time, possible fabrication of parts, and fitting labor. Expect that it will take some time--good ones almost always have a backlog. A good one will also tell you the truth--in some cases, any repair will have to be made by a high priced specialist in restorations--Doug Turnbull, etc. and might never be able to be fired again--some damage cannot be fixed so as to safely allow firing it again.
 
My experience with S&W Customer Service has been satisfactory but would not have been necessary had their QA people did their job in the first place.

327 Night Guard - barrel crown unfinished. The rifling has burrs. Sent it back. They said “No defect found” and sent it back. Burrs gone and crown looked nice. 2 week turnaround.

60 Pro - could not release cylinder. Good thing it was not loaded. Sent it in. They said the ejector rod had not been properly or completely threaded. It back out a little and locked up the gun. 2 week turnaround.

63 - Now I have to contact them about my 63. The left side cylinder gap is 0.015” and the right side cylinder gap is 0.005”. Grrrr :mad:
I just got this gun a little over a month ago.

I called S&W a few days ago about my model 63. (I quoted my own post above) They sent me a shipping label and I sent it out Friday. Hopefully they will repair it quickly.
 
Boom boom - good points. I haven't heard of JB Bore Bright but if it is designed for use in/with guns, that sounds like a better compound. Some years ago, I either heard or read a story about somebody using fine jeweler's rouge rubbed thinly on the bullets to be fired from a gun. I believe they called this "fire lapping" the barrel and was an easy and effective way to polish the bore.
 
I don’t know how old your heirloom is but, S&W will not work on gun manufactured prior to a certain date. I am not certain of that date but, perhaps someone here can provide that information.
They "worked on" my 29-2, but had no replacement barrels. I had to supply one on my own. Fortunately, I bought two as one of them had been turned in too many times and couldn't be used.
 
Boom boom - good points. I haven't heard of JB Bore Bright but if it is designed for use in/with guns, that sounds like a better compound. Some years ago, I either heard or read a story about somebody using fine jeweler's rouge rubbed thinly on the bullets to be fired from a gun. I believe they called this "fire lapping" the barrel and was an easy and effective way to polish the bore.

For rifles, you can buy either the bullets that are impregnated with the stuff or at one time there was loaded ammo for "firelapping". As a result, folks tried kinda a DIY approach by using the jeweler's rouge on bullets. The major issue with that is pressure spikes from the abrasive on the bullet slowing it down in the bore. Here is the David Tubb's stuff for rifles http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-bullet-kits and the homemade technique via Kitchen Table Gunsmithing https://www.ktgunsmith.com/firelapping.htm

Impartial review of the technique, https://www.gun-tests.com/issues/13_8/features/4953-1.html

For revolvers, it really is not necessary as the cylinder, throat, and barrel are readily accessible--the cylinder and chamber can be polished quite well with the drill/bore brush/polishing compound technique and the barrel is easily lapped by hand due to the length of it. Ditto for a pistol. 50 full strokes on a rifle barrel 26 inches long is a workout--50 strokes on a 4 inch barrel, not so much. In addition, most people aren't accurate enough with a handgun outside of a Ransom rest to notice much change in accuracy. Polishing the barrel can help lessen fouling and maybe a tad on accuracy but it would be difficult to tell.

On rifles, a major problem with used ones is the throat can be a disaster along with roughness on the barrel's lands. Both of these conditions can also be a safety issue as you see weird cases of a kaboom where the loads supposedly were normal, no pressure signs on the primer, but the rifle simply blew out the barrel. The theory, which is almost impossible to test, is that a rough throat and barrel can slow a bullet down or stop, allowing a pressure spike in the barrel, and that causes the barrel to kaboom. The powder used, the bore roughness and throat roughness, the bullet, fouling, barrel strength, etc. are thought to be key variables in such a thing happening.

Overall, firelapping is simply a quicker way to lap the barrel than using the JB bore paste and with the additional advantage of possibly evenly removing the scaling etc. from the throat. Lapping manually can have the effect of making the throat non-concentric (non-round) with a definite effect on accuracy unless you cast a slug to do it like the barrel makers do. Firelapping supposedly takes care of that by the even dispersion of the lapping compound in the throat and barrel.

For the most part, firelapping a rifle barrel is kind of the last resort when other techniques have failed and you do not want to rebarrel it or retire the rifle for whatever reason--historic, fit and finish, etc. I'm sure some people have done it in handguns but I am not one of them. Have used JB Bore Paste in both flavors to very good effect even in old military surplus rifles. Just be sure to thoroughly remove the stuff before firing.

Oh, a fair number of people use valve lapping compound which comes in a variety of grit levels depending on how much you want to remove. Can't speak to that as I haven't used such in a bore or cylinder.
 
I called S&W a few days ago about my model 63. (I quoted my own post above) They sent me a shipping label and I sent it out Friday. Hopefully they will repair it quickly.



Did customer service answer the phone when you called - or did you have to use my dial operator trick to get through?
 
You put it (rouge) on your brass brush and put the brush on your electric drill. Then you run it through the business ends of each cylinder, where the expanded cases get stuck. basically you are polishing each cylinder. Extractors have springs and to lighten any spring you merely remove a couple of twists, or buy a lighter spring. That pretty much sums up my knowledge where this is concerned. I have personally used the rouge trick on lots of .22 WMR revolvers over the years and it really works. The hard part is finding rouge.


I have buffing compound (for sharpening knives). Will that be good?
 
Did customer service answer the phone when you called - or did you have to use my dial operator trick to get through?

I got someone on the phone after I listening to the selections and I believe I pressed 3 and within a couple of minutes I spoke to a nice lady there that set up my work order and emailed me a shipping label. I was done in about 6 minutes.
 
Ruger has their problems also. I had a new 22-45 that the barrel developed a rotational looseness send it in they said. I paid the $37 overnight air freight that took 3 days to get there. When it came back I took it down to see what had been done. The frame has a hook that fits inside a loop on the bottom of the barrel to hold it all together. They had taken a hammer and beat hell out of the loop to tighten things up. I put it back together and dumped it on Cabelas in a trade. Don't have warm feelings for Ruger or Cabelas either one.
 
I don’t care what brand you buy, you will eventually have a problem and may go to the maker for help. I have found that I usually get excellent service but I have had a couple of episodes where the service was crap and the results were crap...until readdressed with a manager. Those “crappy” events were with Remington and Marlin. My customer service experience with Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Glock and Henry have all been very good.

Oh, I forgot about a wonderful :mad: experience I had with Rossi. I will never own a Rossi product again.
 
I got someone on the phone after I listening to the selections and I believe I pressed 3 and within a couple of minutes I spoke to a nice lady there that set up my work order and emailed me a shipping label. I was done in about 6 minutes.



Naturally. Murphy's Law, like when something is haywire with your car but when you show it to the mechanic it's not doing it. I wait on the S&W customer service line 15 minutes, 17 minutes, until i finally hang up and dial the operator. This guy gets through right away.

:cuss:
 
I tried to call them last week. Got an automated answering system that kept me on hold for 20 minutes without talking to a live person. Then I emailed them and got a response within 12 hours. Go figure.
 
I tried to call them last week. Got an automated answering system that kept me on hold for 20 minutes without talking to a live person. Then I emailed them and got a response within 12 hours. Go figure.


The only way I was able to get anyone on the phone at S&W was through the operator, not "customer service". They don't answer that number at all, at least they didn't when I was calling them. I didn't try email.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top