Guillermo
member
Nope. The public is buying expensive guns, with all of the cost cutting measures in place.
Again...give them credit. They are selling crap at caviar prices.
Or put another way....They are selling Taurus quality guns at S&W prices.
S&W views on their MIM parts
- Thread starter buck460XVR
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Nope. The public is buying expensive guns, with all of the cost cutting measures in place.
Again...give them credit. They are selling crap at caviar prices.
Or put another way....They are selling Taurus quality guns at S&W prices.
OldCavSoldier
Member
Waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa, MIM, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa, UGLY, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa, LOCK, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa......
Come on folks, give the company a break. If you don't like MIM parts on your gun, then don't buy a gun with MIM parts, if you think they are ugly or don't like the lock, then don't buy a Smith. Your not buying a Smith will keep demand lower and will potentially lower the price, which is GREAT for me, because I don't mind the MIM parts nor the lock...I go for function over appearance [and, thankfully, so does my wife!] and Smith revolvers, new and old, function for me without fault, and have done so for 36 years.
Come on folks, give the company a break. If you don't like MIM parts on your gun, then don't buy a gun with MIM parts, if you think they are ugly or don't like the lock, then don't buy a Smith. Your not buying a Smith will keep demand lower and will potentially lower the price, which is GREAT for me, because I don't mind the MIM parts nor the lock...I go for function over appearance [and, thankfully, so does my wife!] and Smith revolvers, new and old, function for me without fault, and have done so for 36 years.
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Guillermo
member
Old Cav,
Thank you for supporting the former Smith & Wesson.
Because you are willing to purchase the cheapened, Taurus-quality revolvers and pay top dollar for them, they stay in business. This is good as they still make parts for the good revolvers that they once manufactured.
In addition, this keeps you out of the used market. The law of supply and demand says that this helps me purchase quality revolvers at reasonable prices.
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you for supporting the former Smith & Wesson.
Because you are willing to purchase the cheapened, Taurus-quality revolvers and pay top dollar for them, they stay in business. This is good as they still make parts for the good revolvers that they once manufactured.
In addition, this keeps you out of the used market. The law of supply and demand says that this helps me purchase quality revolvers at reasonable prices.
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
By purchasing a used firearm you are denying S&W the sale of a new gun. So, it is true, you have voted with your pocket book.
S&W gets no benefit, except maybe service and repair, from someone purchasing a used firearm.
As a consumer, you have the choice of what you buy. New, used, S&W, Colt, Taurus, metal, plastic and more. Fortunately, the consumer has choices.
As a company, S&W only makes money when you buy a new product from them. If they don't sell their products, their investors will not be happy. So, S&W wants to maximize sales at the risk of alienating a few potential customers.
How many great firearms have gone out of production in the past because the company could no longer make a profit producing them. The pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 comes to mind. Maybe the pre-MIM S&W revolvers are just another in the list.
Bottom line, S&W will not keep making revolvers that do not sell just to keep me happy.
JohnBT
Member
"the tastes of the average gun buyer tend to not be all that refined!"
Yeah, the refined folks are over on the Colt forum discussing Pythons.
Yeah, the refined folks are over on the Colt forum discussing Pythons.
Actually, there shouldn't be any argument. As others have pointed out those who are satisfied with the currently available revolvers, cheapened by necessity as they may be, can pick out whatever they like from the company's latest catalog. If it makes any difference I believe they represent the majority. In some ways, from my perspective, that's good.
The rest of us have an almost endless supply of the older guns that we prefer, with a selection going back into the 19th Century.
Why argue when we are in an environment where just about everybody can have what they want? Even those who are hopelessly misguided.
The rest of us have an almost endless supply of the older guns that we prefer, with a selection going back into the 19th Century.
Why argue when we are in an environment where just about everybody can have what they want? Even those who are hopelessly misguided.
Check out S&W's stock price and performance over the last year.
Perhaps they have alienated more than "...a few potential customers."
Some how they stay in business. Maybe not this time, eh?
by no means i am an expert , let me start with that.
some men buy a new car , use it and after some years sell it buy another.
some even have a prefference for a kind of brand and stick to that.
the car would simply forfill a task , transportation from a to b .
and there is nothing wrong with that .
there are some men that buy a classic car , they would gather all the information about it and become very impressed on the various details.
these are the men that find themselves sometimes in the garage just staring at the car , feeling it , enjoying it , lovin it.
they could spent countless hours with other interests talking about it , sharing their experiences and many more .
two different men , two different cars and none of them is wrong or right.
theyre just that , different men.
some men buy a new car , use it and after some years sell it buy another.
some even have a prefference for a kind of brand and stick to that.
the car would simply forfill a task , transportation from a to b .
and there is nothing wrong with that .
there are some men that buy a classic car , they would gather all the information about it and become very impressed on the various details.
these are the men that find themselves sometimes in the garage just staring at the car , feeling it , enjoying it , lovin it.
they could spent countless hours with other interests talking about it , sharing their experiences and many more .
two different men , two different cars and none of them is wrong or right.
theyre just that , different men.
motorcycle-charlie
Member
very nice edwin. i like that analogy. great way to put it. some like new, some like classics. i would wish no ill will on the Smith and Wesson company. buy it if you like but stay away if you disaprove. if they went out of buisness, many families would suffer from the job loss in an economy that cant support it. we need to keep American workers working. (and ones in Holland too)
Guillermo
member
I totally agree.
As long as people are willing to buy the cheapened (in manufacturing cost) revolvers and paying giraffe-ass-high prices S&W prospers.
They keep supporting there good products and it keeps a large pool of people out of the used market.
It is a PERFECT situation. I only wish MORE people would get out of the used revolver market.
I sincerely thank them all.
MIM is a slick powered metal process, sophisticated and modern, and it's effective use depends on the skill and the use of rigorous testing by engineers responsible for the item. That is the way any modern product is made.
My company uses powered metal. We make gears out of it. These gears are hard - like 72 rockwell C, and really hard steel is about 62C. Despite being hard, they go into a housing, and are spun up to 7000 rpm, immersed in jet fuel, and are expected to take large shocks like foreign object damage, not shatter and keep working, which they do. Their lifetime is expected to be 10's of thousands of hours.
Powdered metal products have become so sophisticated that materials are made that no metal melt or forging process can duplicate, especially when cost is factored in. I can tell you there's no steel that can get to Rc72 and if you could it would shatter if you dropped it.
My company uses powered metal. We make gears out of it. These gears are hard - like 72 rockwell C, and really hard steel is about 62C. Despite being hard, they go into a housing, and are spun up to 7000 rpm, immersed in jet fuel, and are expected to take large shocks like foreign object damage, not shatter and keep working, which they do. Their lifetime is expected to be 10's of thousands of hours.
Powdered metal products have become so sophisticated that materials are made that no metal melt or forging process can duplicate, especially when cost is factored in. I can tell you there's no steel that can get to Rc72 and if you could it would shatter if you dropped it.
We have about a dozen local guys and gals running S&W revolvers in IPSC and ICORE matches. Most of these people shoot 15,000 rounds or more per year. I've not seen or heard of any MIM failure. I agree that the Forged and case hardened parts look better. But, the MIM parts work fine.
Walking Dead
Member
Maybe S&W should forget about the ever changing landscape of manufacturing technology. It seems to have worked so well for Colt.
Gee... All this "sophisticated and modern" stuff leaves me all warm and fuzzy. But, "its effective use depends on the skill and use of rigorous testing by engineers responsible for the item," leaves me a bit worried. I'm not so sure that S&W (not to mention Taurus) have engineers doing rigorous testing of hammers and triggers. The vendor that makes them might, but I have my doubts. In a desperate attempt to save every penny, S&W doesn't even bother to flash chrome plate hammers and triggers that go into stainless revolvers to obtain a better appearence. In this economic environment extra careful testing and inspection is unlikely.
All too true, which makes the older products even more attractive.
Guillermo
member
some of us care about quality...some hardness
MIM does not take plating, (the way S&W makes it) it is the same hardness all the way through, is brittle, does not play well w others, does not polish (although does burnish)
Walking Dead
Member
I wish I had a Internet metallurgy degree too.
Some folks are more interested in telling you how wrong you are than they are interested in shooting. I, for one, am really pleased that there are so many active manufacturers in the gun industry and that there is increased interest in shooting and shooting sports in America.
We trust our lives to engineers and their decisions every day - in cars and airplanes and elevators and buildings, so this is really a discussion about preferences. Marketing and product preferences.
Until someone can present "facts" of the type which engineers use, as opposed to merely strident "opinions" about MIM, I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I recently saw a new blued S&W Classic Model 17, and it was simply beautiful. And if it shoots like the recent-vintage 617 which I have shot, there will be no complaints about accuracy from the new owner.
I'm certainly glad that I don't wake up every morning with a grudge against some company. Life is too short.
gd
We trust our lives to engineers and their decisions every day - in cars and airplanes and elevators and buildings, so this is really a discussion about preferences. Marketing and product preferences.
Until someone can present "facts" of the type which engineers use, as opposed to merely strident "opinions" about MIM, I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I recently saw a new blued S&W Classic Model 17, and it was simply beautiful. And if it shoots like the recent-vintage 617 which I have shot, there will be no complaints about accuracy from the new owner.
I'm certainly glad that I don't wake up every morning with a grudge against some company. Life is too short.
gd
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Guillermo
member
Hey walkingdead,
Please tell us how u know what people do for a living, their education and experience.
Is it ESP, google fu or just the ability to pull things out of your posterior with the ease a magician pulls a rabbit out of a top hat?
Please tell us how u know what people do for a living, their education and experience.
Is it ESP, google fu or just the ability to pull things out of your posterior with the ease a magician pulls a rabbit out of a top hat?
Walking Dead
Member
The fact that your profile says realtor probably helped with my hat trick. Also when you do have actual experience with something it's easy to call bull on Internet rumors. I imagine you own a bunch of guns as I have seen your posts, but that hardly makes your opinions anything more than just that "an opinion". Everybody takes this MIM stuff so personal. The funny part is its all the same complaints and same comments from both sides. With as much metallurgy and engineering experience as a realtor has you should fire up a machine shop and go to town making replacement parts for all the broke MIM stuff. There must be a heck of a market for it out there. Also I'm trying to populate my 2nd shift with experienced cnc machinists so if you know any.
Silent Bob
Member.
LOL Thaddeus Jones there is more to life then Smith & Wesson. We get it, you hate the new S&W. You have become the raving street preacher around here for S&W hate. I guess we all need something to keep us going.
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