SA For EDC

[Rexster]

Just started a week of vacation. Must get to the range with at least one of my SA sixguns!

 

[Rexster]

For me it is about the slow reloading time IF I'm in a situation where I'm likely to need more than six shots.

If that is the case, then an auto loader is called for.

Most private-citizen self-defense shootings are solved with six shots, or fewer. Really, I believe one usually runs out of time before running out of ammo. If the engagement becomes prolonged, well, that is why a G26 or G19 makes for a good "speed" reload, so you are right, in that regard, about the auto-loader being called-for. The best of the late 19th Century, plus the best of the late 20th Century; what's not to like? I am smiling, but I am not kidding.

Since at least 2002 or 2003, I have been saying, in public, that I would be comfortable toting a Single Action Sixgun/Baby Glock combo. The revolver gives me better long-range accuracy potential, and the Baby Glock gives me more volume of fire for close-range emergencies. The only thing that has changed, in that time, is that I have grown to favor the Gen4 G19, because it is almost always small enough, and because its rail allows mounting a Surefire X200/X300-series light. An upcoming change is that I will soon retire from LEO-ing, and be free of rules that say what I can carry, to defend myself or others, 24/7/365. I will soon the able to tote a Single Action revolver for reasons other than mere sport.

Carrying multiple weapons, during personal time, is nothing new. When I was still very serious about carrying SP101 snub-guns as "primary" weapons, I noticed that it was not much more bulky to carry another SP101 in the space where I would wear a speed-loader holder on the belt, so I carried as many as three revolvers at belt level somewhat regularly, and even a fourth from time to time, especially if one would be for my wife, if going to a place where she could not legally carry.

 

[shafter]

A single action can be pretty much as fast as anything else. Reloading is what get's you.

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

Blackhawk 45 never had a failure to feed or failure to eject or failure to knock down what needed to go down.

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

There is a saying that really fits this discussion. "Any Gun will Do,,, if You will Do."

If I knew I was going to a gunfight I'd be taking a Rifle and my G21 as a backup.

I don't usually go to gunfights,,, but in todays world you never know, so having something "near me" is where I'm at.

Not going to do much cover fire with my .44's but I can hit a man sized target most of the time out to beyond 100 yards, and getting hit with one .44 SWC would probably have more of an effect than a few 9mm's.

I think you should carry whatever you shoot best as long as it doesn't weigh too much. My SBH Bisley weighs a little over 3 lbs so I don't cart it around that much. My S&W 696 is only 5 shots but I have speed loaders, and it is about 2lb.8oz so its a little more easy to carry.

My G21SF when loaded weighs 2lb 6 oz. and has a lot more firepower and I shoot it best of all my handguns. So that pretty much defines what I'm showing up with.

But if I only had my SBH with me, I'd just have to adapt quickly.

Randy

 

[paulsj]

This is meant to be a serious discussion so lets please not stoop to belittling. I will start off by saying that I would never consider carrying a SA revolver for SD.

HOWEVER, I am very interested in understanding how those that do, well, do. What's your technique during drawing and firing, and do you worry about reloading?

There are many videos about this subject online and after having watched a few I just thought it would be nice to hear some feedback from folks who actually carry this set up every day.

If I lived near Richmond Va I would not carry s-a either, but in most places chance of needing a gun are so low that carring one is not necessary. For most s-a would be ok to carry.

 

[murf]

Most private-citizen self-defense shootings are solved with six shots, or fewer. Really, I believe one usually runs out of time before running out of ammo. If the engagement becomes prolonged, well, that is why a G26 or G19 makes for a good "speed" reload, so you are right, in that regard, about the auto-loader being called-for. The best of the late 19th Century, plus the best of the late 20th Century; what's not to like? I am smiling, but I am not kidding.

Since at least 2002 or 2003, I have been saying, in public, that I would be comfortable toting a Single Action Sixgun/Baby Glock combo. The revolver gives me better long-range accuracy potential, and the Baby Glock gives me more volume of fire for close-range emergencies. The only thing that has changed, in that time, is that I have grown to favor the Gen4 G19, because it is almost always small enough, and because its rail allows mounting a Surefire X200/X300-series light. An upcoming change is that I will soon retire from LEO-ing, and be free of rules that say what I can carry, to defend myself or others, 24/7/365. I will soon the able to tote a Single Action revolver for reasons other than mere sport.

Carrying multiple weapons, during personal time, is nothing new. When I was still very serious about carrying SP101 snub-guns as "primary" weapons, I noticed that it was not much more bulky to carry another SP101 in the space where I would wear a speed-loader holder on the belt, so I carried as many as three revolvers at belt level somewhat regularly, and even a fourth from time to time, especially if one would be for my wife, if going to a place where she could not legally carry.

sounds like you are a modern day jose wales.

murf

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Went hiking with the blackhawk and had a great time. Hard to conceal though... maybe I should go IWB

Here is my california slim jim leather from Graveyard Jack. Pack is a Hill People Gear Tasamujara. Knife by Adventure Sworn.

 

[bannockburn]

Tony_the_tiger

Nice hiking rig and accoutrements. Really like the knife too.

 

[the Black Spot]

Tony_the_tiger

Nice hiking rig and accoutrements. Really like the knife too.

X2, but i think he jilted those grips by not posting a color photo....

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

X2, but i think he jilted those grips by not posting a color photo....

Yes sir, and that rich oxblood holster

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Why is it that so many holsters for SA's have an exposed trigger? While I understand that with the hammer down and the little "lasso" that goes behind it would make it just about impossible for the gun to go off while holstered, it just seems like it's "inviting" the finger to get in there early on a draw.

Is there another reason for this design on SA holsters?

 

[35 Whelen]

Why is it that so many holsters for SA's have an exposed trigger? While I understand that with the hammer down and the little "lasso" that goes behind it would make it just about impossible for the gun to go off while holstered, it just seems like it's "inviting" the finger to get in there early on a draw.

Is there another reason for this design on SA holsters?

Some of those are a Tom Threepersons design. He was a lawman in the early and mid 1900's. Undoubtedly the design facilitated quicker and easier access to ones sidearm. I don't imagine they worried as much about safety in those days.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Some of those are a Tom Threepersons design. He was a lawman in the early and mid 1900's. Undoubtedly the design facilitated quicker and easier access to ones sidearm. I don't imagine they worried as much about safety in those days.

Thanks for sharing that with me. Along with answering my question, you gave me about an hours worth of good reading (googling) to someone who had never heard the name Threepersons. I sure won't forget it now.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

The one shown above with trigger exposed is a California Slim Jim. I don't know much about the history of the pattern except that most I've seen show the trigger like that.

I believe the hammer loop to be a retention device as opposed to a safety feature related to negligent discharge.

In any case, the gun can't be fired without cocking the hammer, and I never draw with my finger on the trigger, so I always figured it was cosmetic. I'm no expert though, and I am open to learning more about SA safety and leather history.

 

[Jim K]

Using a 7 1/2 inch barrel SAA for self defense in, say, New York City, would at least make for a lot of fun at the local cop shop.

Jim

 

[fastbolt]

I hear ya fella's. But I have seen some folks on here post in some "Carry SD" threads post that they carry a SA revolver, so they must be out there.

Here's one of the interesting videos I found on this topic...

Howdy.

There was a time, as a young cop and new firearms instructor, when I sometimes carried a Ruger Blackhawk off-duty. Why?

Well, I'd grown up learning to shoot revolvers using Ruger SA's, and had carried one or another of them in the backwoods when Jeeping with my father. My favorite was an old 4 5/8" 3-screw Blackhawk .357/9 Convertible, but I've also owned some other 4 5/8" Blackhawks, including a .45ACP/Colt Convertible and a one of what was apparently a short run of .44 Magnum Blackhawks, and even used a .30 Carbine and .41 MAG in the older 3-screw models.

The tips discussed and demonstrated in the video you linked were pretty common and well known among SA revolver aficionados back during the heyday of the TV westerns in the late 50's & early 60's. They were things my father taught me when I was old enough to start shooting SA revolvers. Finger-off-the-trigger during drawing and strong hand thumb-cocking was a good idea, especially with some of the people trying to emulate western "fast-draws" in those earlier days, but ending up putting a hole in their foot or down their leg.

Anyway, I did use a couple of those well known tips when actually taking one of my Blackhawks to a range qual back then, and I remember how it attracted some odd glances and smirks ... right up until I put 6 rounds of .45 Colt into a tight cluster, faster than most of the 9mm shooters could fire the same number of rounds. IOf course, then my empty Blackhawk became a big paperweight, or a bludgeon.

That period didn't last long, and some years later we actually had to institute a policy prohibiting the carrying of SA revolvers off-duty. It coincidentally came about when one of the other former firearms instructors, who had gotten involved in CAS, had decided he wanted to carry one or more of his CAS revolvers as off-duty weapons.

I used to volunteer to help teach some private citizen classes for people interested in having CCW licenses, and over the course of almost 10 years of doing so, I doubt there were more than 4 or 5 guys who wanted to use a SA revolver for a listed CCW weapon. Since the type of handgun permitted on a CCW license can be limited or restricted to suit the issuing authority in CA, it's not unusual to find out that there are jurisdictions won't permit SA revolvers to be used on their licenses. (My father had a couple of his short Blackhawks on his CCW license back in the 70's, in Sacto, but that was many years - and elected Sheriffs - ago. )

I'd obviously not consider a SA revolver to be one of the more practical CCW weapons that could be chosen, but neither would I consider a private citizen who was familiar, knowledgeable, experienced and well-versed in safely and effectively using one to be "under equipped" for his/her needs.

The days of handgunners cutting their teeth on, and learning their foundation shooting skillsets with, revolvers - let alone single action revolvers - are in the past, though.

If I were still going to be doing a lot of "gentle adventuring" 4-wheeling and backwoods wandering nowadays, I'd still have no qualms about belting on one of my remaining Ruger SA revolvers, for potential defense against 4 or 2-legged threats.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Saw something new the other day.

I was asked to help out doing CCW shooting qualifications and a guy brought in a Single Action 45-70 revolver with something close to a 15" barrel. He was flinching pretty noticeably by the 3 round.

I didn't get a chance to ask him just how he figured on concealing that thing.

I can only assume he had some kind of cart...

ETA it looked like this:

 

[sonora]

This is what I carry just about every day, a 4 3/4" Uberti .44 Special:



I carry around the place here and also deer hunt with it. I'd have no earthly way of knowing how many thousands of rounds I fired through it, NOT Cowboy Action ammunition, but heavy SWC's running from 850 - 1000 fps. And I also do, and always have, carried 6 rounds loaded with the hammer pulled back to the first "click".

35W

 

[sonora]

Does an Uberti have a transfer bar safety? If not, isn't it rather unsafe and a break with tradition to carry at first notch and fully loaded with six rounds. As opposed to five rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sonora

 

[CraigC]

An exposed trigger is a Glock issue, not a revolver issue, especially a single action. If you need a holster to keep your finger off the trigger, that's a training issue, as you already have a bad habit.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Does an Uberti have a transfer bar safety? If not, isn't it rather unsafe and a break with tradition to carry at first notch and fully loaded with six rounds. As opposed to five rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sonora

Some Uberti's have a transfer bar and some don't.

Mine does not. You will have to check the different models available.

If you have a transfer bar, you should be able to safely carry 6 rounds.

 

[BobWright]

Why is it that so many holsters for SA's have an exposed trigger? While I understand that with the hammer down and the little "lasso" that goes behind it would make it just about impossible for the gun to go off while holstered, it just seems like it's "inviting" the finger to get in there early on a draw.

Is there another reason for this design on SA holsters?

When you're pulling a Single Action, the last thing you want is to have a layer of leather between your trigger finger and the trigger guard. You want to find that trigger as quick as possible.

Bob Wright

 

[W.R.Buchanan]

That's a damn nice lookin' SBH Bisley and Holster! Love the Oxblood Red and the Birdseye Maple.

Randy

 

[BobWright]

..................... it just seems like it's "inviting" the finger to get in there early on a draw.

Yep, that it does. And very well, too.

Bob Wright