Safest way to seat primers?

[GW Staar]

What say you?

I have heard lots of stories about primer tubes going Kaboom since they are all sitting on top of each other, which is one reason the Dillon encloses their primer tubes inside of another steel tube. If there is an issue seating a primer and it ignites, it can cause the rest of the tube to ignite as well.

On the Lee Safety Prime system on my Classic Turret Press, it separates the primer from the rest of the batch before loading, so if it happens to go off during a seating event, it shouldn't ignite the rest of the batch. I see this as a fairly safe way to seat primers.

But... I am looking for a way to seat primers when not using the Lee Classic Turret press, and I am having a hard time trusting the tube system on my new Dillon XL650.

Maybe paranoia, but I thought I would try to get some feedback from the brain trust on this site.


RCBS has some systems that use the plastic strips, but I am not sure this is any safer than a tube system, and it is certainly more work to load the strips.

Is there anything else? Maybe I just need to consider the Dillon steel tube protection as the best of the bunch, or just batch process on my LCT.

Thanks for any advice/opinions.

The worst accidents I know about where people get hurt are, when one moves tubes full of primers around. One such story was reported here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...fortunate-events-warning-graphic-very.776339/
Which press was not important.....too much handling of filled tubes (pipe bombs IMO) was. The problems even pre-date Dillon. People had accidents with RCBS rock chuckers loading tubes in the '70's......that's why Lee came out with the first hand primer I know about, back then......and I quit loading tubes on my R.C. and bought a Lee that loaded one at a time. In those early days there was no primer tube sleeves.....I think Dillon invented that. I think somebody must have gotten hurt really bad in the 70's because RCBS suddenly started putting out safety warnings....and Dillon started making sleeves.

Many years later when I decided to get a progressive, I picked the RCBS Pro 2000 with its primer strips. They are almost as safe as one at a time, but just as fast as tubes as long as you don't mind snapping on a strip every 25 rounds loaded. That system is also very safe for hand primers and bench primers, with RCBS making strip models of those products. You can still buy preloaded strips in CCI, which is the best of both worlds. Like having pre-loaded tubes you can store......which of course is super unsafe with tubes. But even if you load strips by hand with a strip loader, it isn't any slower than pecking tubes full. There are auto-tube loaders out there that are faster, but I've never used one so can't vouch for their safety.

BTW, here's a picture of what I think is the worst accident ever reported on a strip fed primer system.....actually the only accident I've read about: in Groundsclown's on words, "Running a batch of .223 and a crimped primer case got thru when I first got my press. Instead of backing off when I felt some resistance the knuckle dragger in me floored it, so to speak & crushed a primer, setting off 4 or 5 in the strip."

 

[Dudedog]

That said I use a Lee hand primer and do it when I'm relaxing.

No rush and I can inspect the brass and make sure everything feels and looks right.

This is pretty much what I do.
I like to clean the cases after deprimng. Once I have clean cases I prime them up and have the primed brass reading for a reloading session.
I have primed on my LNL but I just prefer not to have to worry about priming when loading, slower yes, safer maybe.

"...heard lots of stories about primer tubes going Kaboom..." Don't listen to whoever told you those BS fairy tales.

HHmm hard not to believe it happens when you see pictures.
Are tube type priming systems unsafe, I would say no, but like any system failure is possible. So possibly a kaboom if things go really wrong.
Most of the ones I have read about usually have some type of comment like "I felt something wrong but...."

 

[buck460XVR]

I use both a RCBS hand primer and their bench mounted priming system. Both have safety systems to isolate the primer being seated from the rest of the primers in the tool. After seating hundreds of thousands of primers, I have yet to have one go "KA-BOOM!, even when applying enough pressure with the bench primer to bend the rims on .380 brass.(I like to make sure my primers are seated and preloaded.) Still, I always wear safety glasses when doing anything reloading related.

 

[hdwhit]

I hand prime everything as a separate step.

That way, if I get a case where there's a problem with the primer pocket and I have to crush the primer to free the mechanism up again, it's only one primer that is going to detonate. Still, in nearly 40 years of reloading, I have never had a primer "ignite" while being seated - even where it was being crushed.

 

[FROGO207]

I have no dog in this fight for sure! I load on a SS or turret press in batches. I also use a hand held primer to prime my brass. The lee old style round one is what I prefer/use. I only put in 40-50 at a time so that IF I had problems they would be minimal. In 30+ years of reloading I have never had a primer detonate yet though I will admit that I have crushed my fair share of them over the years. I agree that the priming is the most dangerous part of reloading and you have to be constantly alert. YMMV

 

[Decoy80]

Interesting read, lots of information. I finally figured out why they put primer arms on single stage presses: so you can still prime cases while your new hand primer or parts therof are in transit.
I've always used a single stage press and I just added another press to speed my operation up lol

 

[GW Staar]

Nitroglycerin or nitrocellulose?

Both.
https://www.federalpremium.com/downloads/msds/F4001_Small_Arms_Primers.pdf

Richard Lee warned people not to use anything but CCI and Winchester in his tray-fed products......I'm guessing that has to do with the more violent explosive attributes of the nitroglycerin additive.....and there isn't much.

Quoting Richard Lee (from Lee's manual and on the instruction sheet that came with the Auto-Prime:

Lee spends many hours on the phone and thousands of dollars adver[t]ising and advising customers that the only safe primers to use with Le tray primer feeders are CCI or Winchester brand.

We have bee[n] accused of playing favorites, taking handouts and simply being unreasonable. None of these are the case. We don't want anyone to get hurt.

We do not think that other brands are inferior or more powerful. They simply not safe to use with the Lee Auto-Prime.

In spite of our many warnings, we still get letters from lawyers advising that their client was injured with a Leepriming tool. After telling them the whole story, we usually never hear [f]rom the lawyer again.

What I'm saying is if you don't take my advice and believe the instructions that come with the tool, you may get hurt. If it happens, it is no ones fault but your own. We care about your safety and want you to enjoy reloading. It's a very satisfying and enjoyable pastime.

Some shooters perfer Federal brand primers. Just as some drivers perfer Ford or Chevrolet. Federal brand primers must not be used with any Lee tray feeder automatic primer feeding device. A single exception; a primer guard is available for the Lee Load-Master. Should you use primers other than CCI or Winchester brand, be sure that you feed them one at a time and, as with all primers, keep them in their original container until you use them. I have never found Federal primers to be better or wors than other brands.

And from page 37 and 38 of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee,

Use only Winchester or CCI brand primers. No other brand is safe. If a tray of Winchester or CCI primers should go off, they will blow off the cover.

Safety glasses will prevent any serious injury to the user. Other brands detonate with such force that it turns the tool into shrapnel."

And BTW, Federal and those "other" brands of primers have caused their share of detonations in Dillon tubes too.....but they don't account for all of them....so if you use tubes....clean the tubes often. Primer residue appears to be the match......friction (primer hulls/tubes) the striker. I read one post on a Dillon forum where the primers were CCI.

So why did I choose APS as safer? Only because the primers aren't touching each other, stacked or side by side, and 25 is less than 100. (not to mention I recognize being imperfect...perfectly capable of having a lapse in mental attention every once in a while.)

Over on AR15.com we were all horrified when one reloader told us that he emptied all his primer packages and dumped them all in a bottle!!! ....... but nobody gives it a thought to load 100 in tubes.

 

[goldpelican]

I now hand prime with the RCBS APS strips. Reloading them takes hardly any time - tip a tray of primers into the reloading gizmo, give them a shake to tip them right way up, and then feed strips in one after the other, gently shaking 25 into place at a time and pushing down on the lever to push them into the strip.

The only issues I've had with this system is the hand tool universal shellholder sometimes letting a 9mm case fly out along with a loose primer - but an inspection of the brass shows that the rim was damaged, and shouldn't have been reloaded anyway.

Grew up with a grandfather with one eye because of a reloading accident in the 50s. He went 60 years through life with one eye because of a primer.

 

[Newtosavage]

I just use the primer feature on my Lee press and put one in at a time in by hand. I used to have a Lee hand primer but gave it to my brother and I don't miss it. I already have the shell in the holder in the press so it just takes a second to put the primer in and prime the shell.

I don't think I'll ever be in such a hurry that I feel I need to stack primers in a tube or feed them automatically.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but some of the information offered is misleading. I've been reloading since 1963, and did it commercially for a short period of time, and when I was rangemaster for my department, where I loaded about 60,000 rounds of 38's per year for practice and qualifications. I've had the primer column on the department's AmmoLoad machine blow up twice. Once was with a full column of primers, and once with a nearly empty column. On the full column, the follower is still buried somewhere in the attic of the range house, but with the nearly empty column it just bounced off the ceiling. The AmmoLoad has a blast shield around the primer column and another Lexan shield in front of the rounds being loaded. It's also a motor driven machine, with a foot pedal for the operator.

A good friend also had his Dillon 650XL blow the primer column just last month while loading .45 acp. I shoot with him monthly, and he said it scared him pretty good, but the Dillon rep just laughed and had a ready list of the parts at hand to send to him, so it does happen enough that it didn't shock the rep.

I've also seen a primer go off on a C-H Auto Champ that we used for loading practice ammunition when I was on the department pistol team.

My 1954 Load-a-Matic, made by Tri-Standard Manufacturing, also has a blast shield around the primer column, so it was an occurrence prior to that time, or they wouldn't have included it in the manufacturing of that machine. I don't recall whether or not the Star machines have a blast shield, but they've been on machines prior to when Mike Dillon started making his.

Primer explosions do occur, but fortunately they don't happen often. Keep the machine clean of residue and don't force anything. Those two things will help to reduce the odds of it happening, but nothing is foolproof.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I stopped using the primer tubes years ago. I just dump them in the green RCBS primer tray, get 'em all right side up, and put one at a time in the RCBS Rockchucker primer sleeve for seating. It goes quickly enough, and I take care to inspect and "feel" each seated primer before continuing.

I've never had a primer ignite unintentionally. Close to 20,000 rounds loaded.

 

[irishlad]

My RCBS bench primer works great.

 

[Reloadron]

Safest way to seat primers?

I believe the safest way is by remote control from a minimum distance of at least one city block, a country mile is also good if you can manage a remote that distance. A good camera helps too!

I hand prime but any of several priming tools will all do a good job for you. Choose whatever works best for you. Below are a few basic hand priming tools.

The small bench unit top left is a one at a time affair which I like because it seats the primers so nicely, either the old Lee or RCBS hand tools work just fine also. I really do not see any single tool as much better than the next, they all do the same thing. I can't hink of a single instance where a primer went bang and injured someone where a mistake wasn't made. Lee does come right out and tell people which primers to use in their tools, use it! When priming it is like any other step of cartridge reloading, we need to be 100% focused on the task at hand. When seating a primer and we meet resistance it is a good idea to stop and see why things do not feel right. Never force a primer. Anyway, when used correctly and good hand loading practices are followed just about any priming tool will get the job done.

Ron

 

[HOWARD J]

I have been using a RCBS auto-prime tube fed tool for about 40 years.
I have never set off a primer

 

[TigerCreek]

I started using the RCBS Universal Hand Priming Tool and have really enjoyed the ease with which it does the job.
Every case and prime gets inspected, I can do it while relaxing and this one tool primes every type of brass with a quick primer holder change.

 

[Walkalong]

I use an old RCBS hand primer and have crushed a few small rifle primers to get the case out of the tool when a crimped case that wasn't prepped well (99.9% the ones I purchased as "processed" many years ago.). Once they were stuck I had to finish seating them to get the case loose. So far I have never set one off, neither by slowly crushing them or even knocking out a live one with a punch. But never say never, we are playing with an explosive product. I bought the new RCBS strip priming tool but it takes a lot more force/leverage to operate the handle and it's tough on my hand.

 

[rsrocket1]

I don’t see how you could design a system safer than the XL 650. Each primer is separated by a steel disk and individually advanced into the priming station. If something should go wrong the steel tube surrounding the primer stack would direct the blast upward away from the operator. Nobody gets hurt and Dillon will replace all damaged parts. I have been loading on a XL 650 for 25 years and never had a problem or concern.

Sorry but that is just wrong. The Dillon priming system allows you to force the primer shuttle with all the leverage of the handle working with it. If it binds, there is nothing to stop the operator from forcing it with the handle of the press causing the above mentioned kabooms. The LnL AP primer shuttle is spring operated and the tension on the spring is handled by the press moving up and down. If there is a primer bound up in the shuttle the spring simply extends fully and the shuttle does not move from under the primer tube. In fact it regularly operates that way because the fiberglass primer rod drops into the primer shuttle when the tube is empty and you'll see that the primer shuttle is locked under the primer tube.

You can still blow up a primer by trying to force something in the press but the explosion would be several inches away from the primer tube with all the rest of the primers.

The Lee presses with the Pez-type primer dispensers also prevent press handle forces from detonating more than one primer at a time in the event of operator error.