Safety and no shooting areas

[George P]

There's absolutely no substitute for actually reading the law:


"IC 14-22-31.5-5


Local government regulation

Sec. 5. Except as specifically prohibited by this chapter and

subject to IC 35-47-11.1, a local unit of government may regulate the

location, use, operation, safety, and construction of a shooting range.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.152-2011,

SEC.1.

IC 14-22-31.5-6

Liability relating to noise

Sec. 6. A person who owns, operates, or uses a shooting range is

not liable in any civil or criminal matter relating to noise or noise

pollution that results from the operation or use of the shooting range

if the construction and operation of the shooting range were legal at

the time of its initial construction or initial operation, and the

shooting range continues to operate in a manner that would have been

legal at the time of the inception or initial operation.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.289-2013,

SEC.16."




https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2015/title-14/article-22/chapter-31.5/chapter-31.5.pdf

And we aren't talking about noise but projectiles

 

[LiveLife]

build a backstop on your property and shoot in it, maybe if they here muzzle blast pointed twords there direction it will change their perspective on the situation

You know, two wrongs don't make the situation right. If neighbors are complaining about the renters, they would have to complain about the OP too if he shot at towards structure/people.

As far as we know, OP has not even talked to the renters or the landlord. If the renters are as OP describes, shooting towards them would likely escalate the situation.

I think the best course of action for OP is exactly what's happening, gathering information and examining options to pursue. In time, most appropriate course of action to take would become evident based on further information OP could obtain, perhaps from the renters, landlord and county code enforcement along with perhaps legal counsel/assessment.

Problem is, we aren’t talking about a “shooting range”. What is being discussed is someone who has constructed a makeshift backstop out of logs in a rural residential area. If they always hit the backstop fine, but if they miss for any reason there are buildings, and on occasion, me, less than 75 yards (being conservative here, probably 50 yards tops) downrange.

After doing my initial check of shooting ordinances, I really didn't find anything for county as most shooting restrictions applied to city ordinance. That's why I suggested approaching the situation from "private range" perspective to see if it qualified and whether there were any rules/guidelines applicable to check with county code enforcement department.

Looking at the picture, looks like what the renters set up could qualify as "private range" if usage frequency is regular and I would agree with others if backstop was adequate depending on firearms/calibers fired. And is the shooting area more than 50 yards from public road?

Perhaps you should contact the county and talk to code enforcement and find out how much land is required for private shooting range, how far away other people's property or buildings are required for private shooting range and any noise restriction.

I believe for rural counties, shooting on property must be done at least 50 yards from public roads.

 

[Speedo66]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. That's sick that anyone, i.e., shooter, deputy, etc. would consider that safe shooting towards an occupied building.

I'm surprised the neighbors on either side haven't burned them down yet. lol

 

[LiveLife]

I'm surprised the neighbors on either side haven't burned them down yet. lol

Now now, let's not be haste.

While many community ordinances/regulations/laws lean on the "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" like those governing noise/disturbance, they also cannot violate the individual's rights.

So you have the right to operate your noisy equipment like chain saws and trimmers but so as to not disrupt your neighbors' sleep.

Many city banning recreational target practice in backyard is obviously done for public safety due to high density living situation but in rural counties, I believe the recreational discharge of firearms is more lax or non-existent to support our Second Amendment rights.

Situation for OP is to determine whether the renters are in violation of any applicable rules/guidelines/ordinances/laws governing the recreational target practice/discharge of firearms. If none exists, as local LE already told the neighbors, then OP must engage the renters to workout a reasonable agreement whatever that may be, which was my initial reply and subsequent replies with addition of other suggestions.

I believe it is still possible to cordially approach the renters to work out a reasonable agreement to ensure OP's safety.

When I set up 50 yard BB/pellet targets on our property, my neighbor was alarmed (like the OP) as .177" caliber pellets zipping at 1000+ fps makes quite a noise, especially when hitting plywood/steel/2 Liter bottle targets. To ease his safety concerns, I showed him my 2" steel bar stock targets were placed right at the ground and in front of trees so if I missed the target, BBs/pellets would go into the trees or ground from the elevated angle I was shooting from the back porch. Once he saw that targets were well situated to prevent stray shots, he was satisfied and told me to enjoy BB/pellet shooting. (We have very good relationship with our neighbors)

And to not disrupt our neighbors with noise, I will shoot quieter BBs in the early morning hours and only shoot louder pellets later in the morning or afternoon when most of the neighbors are at work (I am retired). And yes, I live in rural county where shooting is allowed and my neighbors will shoot 22LR and pistol calibers during waking hours on their property which is perfectly fine with me. And when we hear gun shots at night, it is often for animal control in protection of chickens and livestock many of us keep on our acreages. While I have shot 22LR on our property, it was done only for animal control and I choose to do all of my shooting on BLM land 30 minutes away because I do fast rapid fire double taps/action pistol shooting/magazine dumps while shooting 500-1000+ rounds in a range session.

 

[Speedo66]

If they are shooting pellet guns, or maybe even .22's, that's one thing. If they're shooting center fire rifles, I don't care what time it is, I wouldn't want that going on as close as the surrounding houses appear to be, especially if there are children in those houses.

A shooting session would be traumatic for anyone that close. I wouldn't want to have to wear ear protection in my house.

 

[LiveLife]

And that's what OP is trying to find out.

We have a lot of hunters in my area and before the hunting season, many zero their rifles/scopes on their property. And bow hunters too but done much quieter.

Sound of gun fire, especially loud magnum calibers are like artillery fire. But after a few shots, they stop because they are done zeroing.

Such activity is not only legal but a way of life where I live. It's like fishermen working on their nets and crab pots before the season.

 

[hps1]

And that's what OP is trying to find out.

We have a lot of hunters in my area and before the hunting season, many zero their rifles/scopes on their property.

Sound of gun fire, especially loud magnum calibers are like artillery fire. But after a few shots, they stop because they are done zeroing.

Such activity is not only legal but a way of life where I live. It's like fishermen working on their nets and crab pots before the season.

Another issue with wooden backstops is that continued shots (especially with competent marksmen and larger calibers) tend to chisel their way through the backstop with time; dirt banks not so much.

At any rate, I personally would not consider this location to be suitable for a range, even with a suitable backstop, no matter if it was a master class marksman or a "clown" using it. Anyone ever heard of a negligent or accidental discharge?

Regards,
hps

 

[LiveLife]

Anyone ever heard of a negligent or accidental discharge?

I am actually with OP on this situation as things can happen and potential for harm exists when structure/people are down range within the effective range of firearms being fired.

Personally, I would have politely met the renters and explained my concern and allowed the renters to explain how they would ensure safety of structure/people down range. If that was not feasible, I would work with renters to designate a shooting area that was safe.

But that's what I would do.

 

[F1]

Here are some unlawful discharge of weapon crimes described by a defense attorney. It sounds to me that they are violating most of them - misdemeanors or felonies.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Unlawful-discharge-weapon.htm

 

[LiveLife]

Here are some unlawful discharge of weapon crimes described by a defense attorney. It sounds to me that they are violating most of them

And if you actually check the ordinances/laws, they are written for discharging within city limits.

OP lives in rural county where those city ordinances and laws don't apply, as already expressed by local law enforcement who responded to other neighbors' complaint for concern of safety.

 

[LiveLife]

Shooting in the direction of an occupied building has to apply everyplace.

Yes, we are all in agreement that being down range while mowing or inside the shop building is a concern for safety and that's what we are trying to help the OP with.

But OP has yet to make contact with the renters or the landlord as examination of options are continuing as to best course of action to take. I have thus far suggested OP contact county code enforcement to see if renters' shooting backstop qualifies as a "private range" and if so, whether there are requirements that apply. Other members have suggested to check with the neighbors if they are interested in obtaining a local legal counsel familiar with country ordinances to see if there are any violations. And some other members suggested reporting a complaint with the landlord but I believe that should be done after checking with county code enforcement and perhaps legal counsel.

 

[bdickens]

I live on 2 acres myself and while I could shoot on my property legally, it would be too much of a hassle and expense to build a backstop that I would be comfortable with. Even though there is a very large property right behind me with almost nothing on it.

 

[Flintshooter]

I was going to just let this die a quiet death but it keeps showing up so......
A great deal is being made about my not talking to the renters. For some reason I can’t quite fathom, some have decided that the initial request to not shoot at the location made by others was made in an abusive manner, and if I would just go over and talk to the renters they would be understanding and find somewhere else to shoot. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that most if not all those making that suggestion have never had to deal with the public from a position of non-authority. If your a LEO or a code enforcer it doesn’t count. You words are backed with authority.
The two individuals doing the shooting have clearly demonstrated that they don’t give a hoot in Hell what effect their actions have on others. Three different neighbors have asked them not to what they are doing and have been informed that there is nothing they can do about it. Sheriff deputies have confirmed as much on two different occasions. I am flattered that anyone thinks I have some supernatural ability to convince them they should stop. I don’t. As a utility worker for the last dozen years of my working life I dealt with people like them almost daily. Nobody else matters. It’s all about them. Words are nothing. I’m guessing a few reading this carry. Why don’t you just talk to a mugger so he will understand he shouldn’t rob you?
And it goes beyond that.
I do not reside in my wood shop. I live about eight miles and fifteen minutes away. The shop itself has a wireless monitored alarm system, but it is only for someone actually breaking in. If my neighbors get on the bad side of these two, at least someone is home most of the time, especially at night. By bringing their dog over to dump on the property I maintain (but do not own. It belongs to a cousin who lives out of state and my use and upkeep is mutually beneficial) which I have seen on several occasions, and by dumping garbage there, which I haven’t actually witnessed but strongly suspect because it was never a problem before they have pretty well demonstrated the type of people they are.
I can confront them, explain (politely of course) a few basic rudiments of firearms safety, tell them that I am unhappy being downrange inside or out when they are shooting, and ask them, as three neighbors already have, to not do it. Then the next time I go out there I can inspect the vandalism, call the Sheriff, make a report, and hope against hope that they are satisfied that they showed me to keep my mouth shut, opinions to myself, and not to try telling THEM to not do something.
While I would still like to pursue an ordinance that addresses shooting too close to (or toward) neighbors, the idea of talking to the landlord is the best immediate route. I went to school with one brother, my sister’s crowd in high school included another brother, and our mothers were good friends albeit in different financial levels.