I made some additions and best of all I finally got out and shot it this last weekend. When I have some free time I will give a run down on the new parts, post some pics and write a range report. In the mean time it suffices to say I was well pleased with how things have turned out so far.
Saiga 12 project
- Thread starter Girodin
- Start date
- Status
post_apocalyptic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2009
- Messages
- 24
That polly choke is really long, I keep thinking about buying one, but I think if I ended up using it I would have my barrel cut down and the choke welded on the end to make 18.5inches.
I saw they just started making win choke adapters, I may get one of those instead.
I saw they just started making win choke adapters, I may get one of those instead.
post_apocalyptic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2009
- Messages
- 24
You're right, the vented Polychoke II is pretty long. Since taking those pics, I've sold it, and have a shorter, non-vented Polychoke on the way.
post_apocalyptic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2009
- Messages
- 24
Yep, that's a CAA UPG-47 grip. I like it pretty well, but will most likely replace it with one of Mike Davidson's grips when he releases em, (beginning of next year). The stock is an ACE Ultra-lite modular, and I love it. Less is more with this design.
I like the Tromix bolt-on charging handle quite a bit too. It makes the charging handle less "pointy" and with it installed, it's comfortable to charge the weapon from any angle, with any combination of digits.
Looks nice, are you planning on upgrading the tapco fixed stock?
When I first got my shotgun I picked up one of those for a cheap basic conversion, then I did the side folder.
MAA has a billet stock for about $50, and their internal adapter is about $45.
When I first got my shotgun I picked up one of those for a cheap basic conversion, then I did the side folder.
MAA has a billet stock for about $50, and their internal adapter is about $45.
Probably in time. It works and I had one in my AK parts bin so it made sense to use it, but I am thinking I might use this
it is a tube that allows that allows use of an AR stock without needing to cut the tang, etc.
I would like to put a magpull stock on it like this one (allow not forcedly this exact one
The two combined
I actually will probably use this set up on a rifle project I will be starting soon and see how I like it. It runs a little more than some setups but people seem to like them. I have also considered a folder. For now the basic tapco stock is fine. It is functional and that is what matters most to me. Honestly, I probably wont change it real soon. I would like to make some other modifications to the gun to improve the ergonomics and make it more functional. I have at least five more big modifications or additions planned. After that I'll perhaps change the stock. I am also wanting to build an AK SBR which I might do first and the afore mentioned .223 project that has been on the back burner for a while.
Not bad, I thought about that to keep things simple.
Switching from AR to shotgun may go a little more smooth..
But in the end I decided I wanted to beable to make my shotgun shorter, two main reasons, I can use the shorter case that does not look like a gun case for my neighbors... and I can also shoot with the stock folded for the unknown with 3gun...
I read about guys that had to shoot from the inside of a car for a stage and having the folding stock helped them, I don't see our group ever having something like that, but it's nice to have options.
What I really wanted was the orignial style side folder, but that would require lots of mods to the gun... to much work for me.
Switching from AR to shotgun may go a little more smooth..
But in the end I decided I wanted to beable to make my shotgun shorter, two main reasons, I can use the shorter case that does not look like a gun case for my neighbors... and I can also shoot with the stock folded for the unknown with 3gun...
I read about guys that had to shoot from the inside of a car for a stage and having the folding stock helped them, I don't see our group ever having something like that, but it's nice to have options.
What I really wanted was the orignial style side folder, but that would require lots of mods to the gun... to much work for me.
ThePants
Member
Looks good Girodin, nice job! I'm going to be restoring my Dad's Saiga-12 for him soon and this is almost exactly what I had in mind. The quad rail is a nice touch especially with the VFG and light, it shows the usefulness of it. Ignore the haters, for some reason every time someone puts a quad rail on a Russian gun someone has to cry Mall Ninja. If it works it works.
I have yet to meet any "AK purists" that use their gun for anything besides plinking. When I had occasion to be around Polish military guys their AKs looked like this.
Check out these mall ninja's.
The fact is the AK design is great but readily improved upon. Further talking about being a purist is pretty laughable on a Saiga shotgun that is a its self of recent origin and total non tradition.
I modify my guns to serve my purposes. Rails let you add useful things to the gun. Not being willing to make a weapon more capable, or aquire training to properly use useful gear out of dogmatic "traditionalism" is just as stupid as weighing it down with too much junk and not having the skills to use the equipment. Of course neither group uses their guns for any purpose where it will matter so I guess there is no real harm done in either case. I did enjoy someone who owns one saiga (and not a shotgun) informing me that they know all about them and further that they know better than me what I ought to put on my S12. Oh well that's the internet for you (well I would actually expect to encounter that in a gun shop too)
Check out these mall ninja's.
The fact is the AK design is great but readily improved upon. Further talking about being a purist is pretty laughable on a Saiga shotgun that is a its self of recent origin and total non tradition.
I modify my guns to serve my purposes. Rails let you add useful things to the gun. Not being willing to make a weapon more capable, or aquire training to properly use useful gear out of dogmatic "traditionalism" is just as stupid as weighing it down with too much junk and not having the skills to use the equipment. Of course neither group uses their guns for any purpose where it will matter so I guess there is no real harm done in either case. I did enjoy someone who owns one saiga (and not a shotgun) informing me that they know all about them and further that they know better than me what I ought to put on my S12. Oh well that's the internet for you (well I would actually expect to encounter that in a gun shop too)
Diamondback6
Member
Bingo--the lesson is "outfit your gun so it's useful for you"--just like techniques, tools aren't "one size fits all" either.
The critics? Heck with 'em--when the balloon goes up, they won't be in the same situation as you are and won't be the ones using your iron.
The critics? Heck with 'em--when the balloon goes up, they won't be in the same situation as you are and won't be the ones using your iron.
Norinco982lover
Member
Yours looks sweet! I just finished my conversion and while it isn't a S-12 (yet) I wanted to show ya.
I used the CSS internal adapter and an ACE FX stock I picked up used at a gunshow. Since I wanted to keep the stock handguard I asked Nalioth how to properly mount a rail to the bottom of it and he gave me a GREAT tip: use a piece of metal (I used a drive bay cover from the back of my desktop) on the INSIDE of the handguard/forearm and to sandwhich the rail to the handguard. With the bolt and nut holding on the rail it is extremely sturdy. You will see it in the picture.
I may add a folding adapter at a later date.
) I wanted to show ya. I used the CSS internal adapter and an ACE FX stock I picked up used at a gunshow. Since I wanted to keep the stock handguard I asked Nalioth how to properly mount a rail to the bottom of it and he gave me a GREAT tip: use a piece of metal (I used a drive bay cover from the back of my desktop) on the INSIDE of the handguard/forearm and to sandwhich the rail to the handguard. With the bolt and nut holding on the rail it is extremely sturdy. You will see it in the picture.
I may add a folding adapter at a later date.
So I haven't updated the S12 for a while. I have been trying to write a range report but I have been so busy it is only half done. I did want everyone to know that I have a decent excuse for not working on the S12 lately, and it is pictured below.
It is a 5.56 with the stock mentioned above, a magpul MOE. It is far from done but is at least usable now. I plan to add a AR magwell relatively soon. I am also torn between buying a SGL-21, a Draco Pistol for an SBR or a sig P226. It is all taking time and money away from the S12. I did get a couple goodies for my favorite AK though. I will be adding them soon with short write ups and pics.
It is a 5.56 with the stock mentioned above, a magpul MOE. It is far from done but is at least usable now. I plan to add a AR magwell relatively soon. I am also torn between buying a SGL-21, a Draco Pistol for an SBR or a sig P226. It is all taking time and money away from the S12. I did get a couple goodies for my favorite AK though. I will be adding them soon with short write ups and pics.
Last edited:
Here are the latest updates:
The hammer spring I had was really affecting the trigger pull. It either rubbed on the BHO or one spring leg would come off the trigger leg or both. I replaced it with the a standard power JTE spring from Carolina Shooter Supplies. The spring cost $15 and was worth every penny and then some. The trigger pull is greatly improved and it allows all of the polishing work to be felt now as well. The trigger is very smooth and breaks cleanly. I had considered going with the 25% reduced power spring but I also plan to add a tromix firing pin and spring. I have read reports that combing the two can cause light strikes. Reliability paramount on a weapon like this and it is simply not work compromising it. I need to go shoot it but still but I am very very please with the feel of the trigger now. I could still shim the trigger up to take out a small amount of take up and perhaps could modify it for slightly quicker reset but I am pretty happy with it as is and I think for the time being I will leave it be. The trigger is so much better than the factory pull that I lack the words to articulate the difference. I am ready to purchase these springs for my rifles too.
I then installed the tromix charging handle. It simply slip on over the stock handle and is held in place by a set screw (which should get some blue lock tight to keep it in place or if you were sure you didn't want to remove it I guess one could use red, but I am not that committed.) I really like the feel of this charging handle. It is larger and easier to get a hold of when one is trying to be quick. It also is more comfortable than the stock piece and its relatively sharp edges. I had it on the S223 above and it made me want it on the S12 as well. Additionally I like to keep a common feel between the carbine and shotgun. Here are some pics:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=109001&d=1258090960[/IMG
[IMG]http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=109002&d=1258090969
The above pic is a bit blurry but the set screw can be seen.
The hammer spring I had was really affecting the trigger pull. It either rubbed on the BHO or one spring leg would come off the trigger leg or both. I replaced it with the a standard power JTE spring from Carolina Shooter Supplies. The spring cost $15 and was worth every penny and then some. The trigger pull is greatly improved and it allows all of the polishing work to be felt now as well. The trigger is very smooth and breaks cleanly. I had considered going with the 25% reduced power spring but I also plan to add a tromix firing pin and spring. I have read reports that combing the two can cause light strikes. Reliability paramount on a weapon like this and it is simply not work compromising it. I need to go shoot it but still but I am very very please with the feel of the trigger now. I could still shim the trigger up to take out a small amount of take up and perhaps could modify it for slightly quicker reset but I am pretty happy with it as is and I think for the time being I will leave it be. The trigger is so much better than the factory pull that I lack the words to articulate the difference. I am ready to purchase these springs for my rifles too.
I then installed the tromix charging handle. It simply slip on over the stock handle and is held in place by a set screw (which should get some blue lock tight to keep it in place or if you were sure you didn't want to remove it I guess one could use red, but I am not that committed.) I really like the feel of this charging handle. It is larger and easier to get a hold of when one is trying to be quick. It also is more comfortable than the stock piece and its relatively sharp edges. I had it on the S223 above and it made me want it on the S12 as well. Additionally I like to keep a common feel between the carbine and shotgun. Here are some pics:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=109001&d=1258090960[/IMG
[IMG]http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=109002&d=1258090969
The above pic is a bit blurry but the set screw can be seen.
Attachments
I also decided to add the AR 15 stock to the S12. It is a CAA arms adapter with a MOE magpul stock, same as on the S223. I really like this stock. It feels better than the tapco (I guess it ought to at 5x the price). The tapco worked fine and it could have stayed but I prefer the magpul stock after shouldering it and handling the gun a bit. I still need to shoot it but I think it will stay. The adjustable legnth of pull is nice since the temperature and thus my clothing various greatly here. It should also be nice for when I let others shoot it. I may add a recoil pad but I do not think the S12 really needs it. Even with 3" magnum slugs and 000 buckshot I do not find it uncomfortable. Here are some pics of the new stock
I am really happy with how this gun has come together thus far. I have invest a fair amount of money over the price of a stock gun but the current configuration puts the stock sporter gun to shame. I look forward to shooting it with the newest upgrade.
Although the gun is a huge step up from stock and I really like it I still believe there are some important modifications yet to be made that will dramatically improve them weapon. I still have 2-3 big modifications in works and a few smaller ones. I believe I can still greatly enhance the ergonomics and handling of the S12 and most of the mods will revolve around that. I may make a few changes to enhance reliability and I still need to address the factory sights which leave much to be desired. And then there are always more mags to buy.
I am really happy with how this gun has come together thus far. I have invest a fair amount of money over the price of a stock gun but the current configuration puts the stock sporter gun to shame. I look forward to shooting it with the newest upgrade.
Although the gun is a huge step up from stock and I really like it I still believe there are some important modifications yet to be made that will dramatically improve them weapon. I still have 2-3 big modifications in works and a few smaller ones. I believe I can still greatly enhance the ergonomics and handling of the S12 and most of the mods will revolve around that. I may make a few changes to enhance reliability and I still need to address the factory sights which leave much to be desired. And then there are always more mags to buy.
Attachments
ChileRelleno
Member
I very much enjoyed reading your thread, watching your progression and the end result... A nice S12.
Nice work!
................................
Allow me to share mine with you.
BEFORE
AFTER
Nice work!
................................
Allow me to share mine with you.
BEFORE
AFTER
ChileRelleno
Member
Yeah, they're Krebs, and I love'em.
Very accurate, sight pic is great, fast target acquisition and they look good too.
I shoot alot of slugs, and putting them on 8" round target at 50-75yards is as easy as farting.
Very accurate, sight pic is great, fast target acquisition and they look good too.
I shoot alot of slugs, and putting them on 8" round target at 50-75yards is as easy as farting.
ah64mech13
Member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 3
I'm drooling over all of the projects. Can't wait to get Christmas over with and have the budget open up again, a S12 is definitaly on the (very long) wish list.
Great job everybody, and F* the "traditionalists." Its your gun, do what you want, unless it makes the gun mechanically unsafe, everybody else can pound sand if they don't like it.
Great job everybody, and F* the "traditionalists." Its your gun, do what you want, unless it makes the gun mechanically unsafe, everybody else can pound sand if they don't like it.
No I have had zero problems with this saiga from the very get go, with the glaring exception of Winchester bulk ammo from wal mart. When I have shot that particular ammo it runs roughly 3 out of every 5 rounds. This is genuinely a problem with the ammo. This ammo has been a problem in other guns as well. The federal bulk has run 100% as well as every variety of high brass load I have put through it. Many people report problems with the winchester ammo and it is simply best avoided.
Some people do have trouble running lighter target loads in saigas. The first thing to check for is to see if the gun has the right number of gas ports. Some guns were imported with only two ports. They will not run light loads. If you have one it will be warranteed. If the right number of ports are there, the next thing to do is check to make sure they are really open all the way.
If the gas system looks good but it is not reliable with light loads there are a few things that will generally take care of the problem. 1 "break it in" with heavy loads first. 2 alternately is to simply polish the bolt, bolt carrier, hammer, and rails, similar to what I have done here. 3 Another good option is the gunfixer gas plug. It gives a wider array of gas settings to dial in the right amount of gas. It is also a good cure for an over gassed gun.
At the time I wrote that I had a gunfixer plug and the polishing in mind. Despite no reliability problems I polished simply to have a smoother action. I will also likely add a gunfixer plug. The reason in my case is not really reliability issues but rather, I would like to be able to switch gas settings by hand and the gunfixer plug allows this. The factory plug requires some sort of "tool" like a quarter or cartridge rim. The hand adjustment alone makes the plug worth it to me. The wider spectrum of gas settings to choose from cannot hurt either.
There is talk of a self regulating plug being developed. That if it were reliable would be ideal. Right now the current gunfixer plug is a good investment for a S12 owner. I have not gotten it yet because my gun runs fine, but I will. For now I still want to concentrate on the ergos. There is definately more room for improvement there.
I wont address them with the stuff I am currently waiting for but it will probably be the next step. It will be mods that I think really help take the S12 to the next level and make it a much better fighting (or competition for that matter) gun.
I'm glad some people have enjoyed this thread or found it interesting. What I really wont to do is go shoot some 3-gun esque courses on the clock with this gun, a stock s12 and some other shotguns maybe a pump and a coach gun. I wanted to do so at each step of the project to get numbers and quantify the improvements to some extent. Sadly I simply have not had time to do that. I likely will not until December at the soonest. I will in time do so. I personally am very interested to see what the results would be and to do it with various shooters and see what the data shows. One day.
Some people do have trouble running lighter target loads in saigas. The first thing to check for is to see if the gun has the right number of gas ports. Some guns were imported with only two ports. They will not run light loads. If you have one it will be warranteed. If the right number of ports are there, the next thing to do is check to make sure they are really open all the way.
If the gas system looks good but it is not reliable with light loads there are a few things that will generally take care of the problem. 1 "break it in" with heavy loads first. 2 alternately is to simply polish the bolt, bolt carrier, hammer, and rails, similar to what I have done here. 3 Another good option is the gunfixer gas plug. It gives a wider array of gas settings to dial in the right amount of gas. It is also a good cure for an over gassed gun.
At the time I wrote that I had a gunfixer plug and the polishing in mind. Despite no reliability problems I polished simply to have a smoother action. I will also likely add a gunfixer plug. The reason in my case is not really reliability issues but rather, I would like to be able to switch gas settings by hand and the gunfixer plug allows this. The factory plug requires some sort of "tool" like a quarter or cartridge rim. The hand adjustment alone makes the plug worth it to me. The wider spectrum of gas settings to choose from cannot hurt either.
There is talk of a self regulating plug being developed. That if it were reliable would be ideal. Right now the current gunfixer plug is a good investment for a S12 owner. I have not gotten it yet because my gun runs fine, but I will. For now I still want to concentrate on the ergos. There is definately more room for improvement there.
I wont address them with the stuff I am currently waiting for but it will probably be the next step. It will be mods that I think really help take the S12 to the next level and make it a much better fighting (or competition for that matter) gun.
I'm glad some people have enjoyed this thread or found it interesting. What I really wont to do is go shoot some 3-gun esque courses on the clock with this gun, a stock s12 and some other shotguns maybe a pump and a coach gun. I wanted to do so at each step of the project to get numbers and quantify the improvements to some extent. Sadly I simply have not had time to do that. I likely will not until December at the soonest. I will in time do so. I personally am very interested to see what the results would be and to do it with various shooters and see what the data shows. One day.
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