I have had my newest S12 stuff for a while but not had the time to update this thread. With some time off for the holidays it is time to rectify that.
The saiga obviously is a box mag fed weapon. Its greatest stregnths and often the things it is the most vehemently critized for relate to that fact. Whether one believes that the box mags are part of what makes the S12 one of the top combat shotguns in the world or what make it a dud one thing is certain, without a mag the S12 is an overly complicated single shot. Without spare mags it has ten (5, 8, or 12 depending on the mags) shots and then is rather slow and complicated to reload. What that means is that if one wants to run a S12 they need mags. I am one that believes you can never own too many mags. I always like to own at least ten mags for any box mag fed weapon that I own. I'm not sure that there is anything magical about ten, it is just a nice round number, additionally it is often more mags than I can carry meaning I have plenty to use and some spares to boot.
I ordered my self 10 AGP 10 round mags. Mags are IMO part of what makes the S12 great. They are, however, not cheap and thus stocking up on mags adds hundreds of dollars to the end price tag. This is something to factor in when considering the S12.
I have a bunch of other AGP 10 rounders and they all ran great. Thus in the interest of keeping common mags (more on why this was an important factor for me later) and based on my previous experiences I decided on the AGP. It also helped that I was able to get a great deal on them and they cost my $12-$15 less per mag than surefire mags would have. When one is buying ten mags the difference adds up.
Unfortunately I took out the mags for some testing and two of them had issues. I have an idea of what the problem is but I need to test my theory before I make any claims. I'm hopeful that I can regulate the issue myself if not, I have read AGP has good customer service.
I have long been unhappy with the stock sights. They work but are fairly rudimentary. I have had a hard time deciding what sights I wanted to add. I have considered the Krebs ghost ring set up with the addition of a XS tritium post. I have also considered HK sights with a tritium front post. The Hk set up would run around $215 ($90 for the sights and $125 for the tritium front sight) and requires welding. The Krebs runs roughly $90 and the XS post is around $60 or $70 IIRC. I have seen some other setups but these two were the ones I was leaning towards.
I decided to punt rather than make a choice. I had the top rail to make my Chaos tri rail a quad. I ordered a Burris Fast Fire II and mounted in on the Chaos rail. I figured that I had another use for the Fast Fire if I didn't like it on the S12 or ultimately wanted a different setup.
Upon mounting the fast fire I found that it sat too high for my liking. If I maintain my typical cheek weld I cannot see the dot. If I raise my head it works fine but it is not the position that I am accustomed to.
Upon shooting with the fast fire I found what I have come to expect from red dot sights, target acquisition is quick and quick accurate fire is greatly facilitated. After shooting I was pretty happy with the red dot. I may try to add a raised cheek rest and see if that resolves my biggest issue with the optic. If I decide to keep it on the S12 I will also order a protector mount to shield the optic from damage it might otherwise have inflicted upon it.
Some people think that a red dot on a shotgun is silly. This thread is not the place for that debate. I will simply say that like most things it has its trade offs. I believe that in terms of performance, for the type of shooting this gun is intended for, a red dot is hard to beat. The flip side is that it is not as sturdy or reliable as iron sights. People will complain of the potential for battery failure. While it is possible the battery life of the fast fire is very long. Further at room distances simply looking through the rectal and centering the target is enough to get on on center mass of a humanoid target. Another factor on the con side changing the battery does require dismounting the sight so it takes some time. A big con that is particular to the way I have it mounted is that I have no back up irons. The top rail of the chaos quad rail covers the factory sights. Even if the sight can be quickly removed the top rail cannot.
I do like that the sight is very light weight. I also like the way the gun shoots with it on. I think a red dot is as fast a sight as anything it is definately faster than the stock sights. I have a fair amount of experience shooting with HK sights and the dot is faster that the open notch setting of the HK drum sight. The dot also allows for greater accuracy with slugs than a bead.
The fast fire has some pros and cons. Some of them are the general ones of an optical sight, others are specific to the fast fire, and others still to the way it is set up on. Ultimately I am not sure if I will keep this setup or not. I will most likely try to tweek it a little to get it more to my liking. Over all I am happy with the way it shoots and the sight is still on the gun and a big improvement over the crude factory open sights.
Here are some pics:
Here is the S12 with the Fast Fire mounted and 9 of the 10 mags plus the factory five rounder.
Here are some various views of the fast fire mounted up.
The saiga obviously is a box mag fed weapon. Its greatest stregnths and often the things it is the most vehemently critized for relate to that fact. Whether one believes that the box mags are part of what makes the S12 one of the top combat shotguns in the world or what make it a dud one thing is certain, without a mag the S12 is an overly complicated single shot. Without spare mags it has ten (5, 8, or 12 depending on the mags) shots and then is rather slow and complicated to reload. What that means is that if one wants to run a S12 they need mags. I am one that believes you can never own too many mags. I always like to own at least ten mags for any box mag fed weapon that I own. I'm not sure that there is anything magical about ten, it is just a nice round number, additionally it is often more mags than I can carry meaning I have plenty to use and some spares to boot.
I ordered my self 10 AGP 10 round mags. Mags are IMO part of what makes the S12 great. They are, however, not cheap and thus stocking up on mags adds hundreds of dollars to the end price tag. This is something to factor in when considering the S12.
I have a bunch of other AGP 10 rounders and they all ran great. Thus in the interest of keeping common mags (more on why this was an important factor for me later) and based on my previous experiences I decided on the AGP. It also helped that I was able to get a great deal on them and they cost my $12-$15 less per mag than surefire mags would have. When one is buying ten mags the difference adds up.
Unfortunately I took out the mags for some testing and two of them had issues. I have an idea of what the problem is but I need to test my theory before I make any claims. I'm hopeful that I can regulate the issue myself if not, I have read AGP has good customer service.
I have long been unhappy with the stock sights. They work but are fairly rudimentary. I have had a hard time deciding what sights I wanted to add. I have considered the Krebs ghost ring set up with the addition of a XS tritium post. I have also considered HK sights with a tritium front post. The Hk set up would run around $215 ($90 for the sights and $125 for the tritium front sight) and requires welding. The Krebs runs roughly $90 and the XS post is around $60 or $70 IIRC. I have seen some other setups but these two were the ones I was leaning towards.
I decided to punt rather than make a choice. I had the top rail to make my Chaos tri rail a quad. I ordered a Burris Fast Fire II and mounted in on the Chaos rail. I figured that I had another use for the Fast Fire if I didn't like it on the S12 or ultimately wanted a different setup.
Upon mounting the fast fire I found that it sat too high for my liking. If I maintain my typical cheek weld I cannot see the dot. If I raise my head it works fine but it is not the position that I am accustomed to.
Upon shooting with the fast fire I found what I have come to expect from red dot sights, target acquisition is quick and quick accurate fire is greatly facilitated. After shooting I was pretty happy with the red dot. I may try to add a raised cheek rest and see if that resolves my biggest issue with the optic. If I decide to keep it on the S12 I will also order a protector mount to shield the optic from damage it might otherwise have inflicted upon it.
Some people think that a red dot on a shotgun is silly. This thread is not the place for that debate. I will simply say that like most things it has its trade offs. I believe that in terms of performance, for the type of shooting this gun is intended for, a red dot is hard to beat. The flip side is that it is not as sturdy or reliable as iron sights. People will complain of the potential for battery failure. While it is possible the battery life of the fast fire is very long. Further at room distances simply looking through the rectal and centering the target is enough to get on on center mass of a humanoid target. Another factor on the con side changing the battery does require dismounting the sight so it takes some time. A big con that is particular to the way I have it mounted is that I have no back up irons. The top rail of the chaos quad rail covers the factory sights. Even if the sight can be quickly removed the top rail cannot.
I do like that the sight is very light weight. I also like the way the gun shoots with it on. I think a red dot is as fast a sight as anything it is definately faster than the stock sights. I have a fair amount of experience shooting with HK sights and the dot is faster that the open notch setting of the HK drum sight. The dot also allows for greater accuracy with slugs than a bead.
The fast fire has some pros and cons. Some of them are the general ones of an optical sight, others are specific to the fast fire, and others still to the way it is set up on. Ultimately I am not sure if I will keep this setup or not. I will most likely try to tweek it a little to get it more to my liking. Over all I am happy with the way it shoots and the sight is still on the gun and a big improvement over the crude factory open sights.
Here are some pics:
Here is the S12 with the Fast Fire mounted and 9 of the 10 mags plus the factory five rounder.
Here are some various views of the fast fire mounted up.