Saiga conversion .308 or 7.62x39

[mark87]

I am looking to get my first semi rifle so I have decided to get a Russian American Saiga and convert it to ak style. I know 7.62 which I will call AK ammo is cheaper mil surplus than the .308. Is the higher priced .308 ammo worth it or the AK ammo being cheaper and still damaging? Thanks

does the RAA saiga have any difference in reliability chambered in either round using mil surplus?

 

[Quiet]

Depends on what range you want to be shooting at.
7.62x39mm for under 300m.
7.62x51mm for over 300m.

 

[mark87]

since it would be something to go to the range with and SHTF it would be under 300m of course

 

[Sam1911]

7.62x39 -- less recoil, faster follow-up shots, easier to find magazines, cheaper ammo, lower velocity, shorter range, less power, lighter bullets

7.62x51, 7.62 NATO, (dimensionally identical to .308 Win.) -- more recoil, more power, more velocity, longer range, more expensive ammo, harder to find magazines, variety of bullets weights and styles

Accuracy is going to be about the same (o.k. -- not great) which really doesn't help you use that longer range potential from the 7.62 NATO round. Few purposes you're likely to use the carbine for really need the extra energy and velocity of the heavier round.

In the end, it comes down to what you'd like more. The world's militaries have moved away from heavier cartridges like 7.62 NATO. But they are more flexible for hunting and certain civilian purposes. And some folks enjoy the extra bang and push!

 

[MIL-DOT]

I would definately go with the x39 ( and I have ) over the x51. Sam covered the facts pretty well, but I would add that the rifle was designed around the x39. I don't know about the x51 versions, but I've read that the .223 version isn't as reliable as the x39's, but granted, that's internet hearsay.
Also, if you convert it, then standard, high-quality,steel military mags are at, or under, ten bucks and widely available.
But the major factor here,IMO, is ammo cost. A 1000-rd. case of Golden Tiger ( my favorite steel cased ) ammo can be found for well under $200.
If this gun is for recreational blasting, and possible future SHTF, then I'd say the x39 is a no-brainer.

 

[okiewita40]

You have to remember that the saiga is a sporterized version of an AK. If it were me I would stick to the x39. The ammo is cheaper plus you can get quality hunting ammo for it also.

If you convert the saiga all you are doing is returning it to what it should be in the first place. A well made russian AK.

 

[Kymasabe]

I agree with Mil-Dot. I've owned quite a few Saiga's, converted almost everyone one of them. One was the .308 and decided one was enough, too hard to find mags and cheap ammo for. One was a .223...never again.
All the rest were 7.62x39s and all were great guns. Based on my experience, the x39 version is the easiest to convert, easiest to find mags for, and there's lots of cheap ammo for it. Barnaul/BrownBear worked well for me, HotShot wasn't bad, Golden Tiger was my favorite when I could find it. Wolf was most available but last choice is it was usually slightly less accurate and much dirtier ammo than the others.
So, do yourself a favor, get the x39.
Go to www.dinzagarms.com and get your conversion parts.
and check out http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com for more conversion parts and ideas.
One of the best front handguard with a tactical rail on it is from SGM Tactical, is an exact replacement for the Saiga handguard, fits perfectly, super-easy install and looks good too. Has tr-rail for stuff but still has an un-railed area to place your hand. At $85 or so may seem expensive but is worth every penny, very well made. http://sgmtactical.com/index.php3?pageid=TacticalRails.htm
Trigger: use a Tapco G2 single hook. Many builders will say the double hook works better or is smoother, I've used both but the single is easier to install and unless you've been building/shooting AK's for a while, you won't feel the difference. Also, I'd recommend getting the Tapco axis pin retaining plate to hold everything together. Don't rely on the cheap little wire shepherds hook thingy. If you want a lighter trigger pull, Carolina shooter supply offers a 25% lighter hammer spring.
Good luck with your build.

 

[Maverick223]

For your intended use, 7.62x39mm hands down, especially when in an AK platform.

 

[wally]

One was a .223...never again

Why? They are a bit more accurate than the 7.62x39 because the barrel is a bit thicker, hence stiffer and the lower recoil flexes the receiver less.

Standard capacity magazines for them was a problem -- either use Galil mags (hard to find and rather expensive if in good condition) or modify the receiver to use the Bulgarian circle 10 mags (but still rather expensive). But Tapco makes a nice 30 round Galil mag for $14 now so this problem is solved.

Getting one in 5.45x39 and converting will be the cheapest shooting with 2160 rounds of corrosive surplus available for ~$240. Cleaning an AK after shooting corrosive ammo is a piece of cake. Surplus mags are currently plentiful at $9-12 each. For SHTF the sealed spam cams will keep your ammo fresh for probably another 20 years or so (based on the 1950s Polish surplus 7.62x25 I've been shooting).

 

[Girodin]

since it would be something to go to the range with and SHTF it would be under 300m of course

I have and like both. For a plinker I would get the x39 simply because it is cheaper in every respect as others have said. For shooting over 200 yards or when you need more effect on target the 308 has the edge.

I've read that the .223 version isn't as reliable as the x39's,

In my experience the .223, x39 and 308 are all equally reliable. I have heard people posit ideas as to why the .223 might be less reliable in theory but I have never heard anyone says theirs was less reliable and I certainly haven't experienced that.

the x39 version is the easiest to convert,

I'm curious about this statement. A 308 is widely considered to be the easiest basic conversion because of the difference in trigger linkage and the fact a bullet guide isn't required. Of course that presumes you buy a drop in trigger like Dinzags that addresses all the unique 308 issues.

What makes a x39 easier than a .223? The only difference I can think of is the bullet guides and I don't see a difficulty difference there.

Now if you get a gun that requires you to cut your own PG hole or something then it might seem more difficult but that is not a caliber specific issue.

One was a .223...never again.

I rather like my S223, and for the money I am into it I cannot think of a better semi auto .223.

 

[mark87]

I'm definitely going to dinzag for pretty much everything and that retaining plate. Thanks Kymasabe for the helpful tips I'm going to need them. As for everyone's suggestions I believe I will stick with the x39 and about that conversion being easier I agree that the .308 is "supposed" to be less work, but that won't be fun now would it. I do plan on stocking up but I didn't know about the golden tiger ammo that's pretty cheap. As for conversions can I stick with a dremmel and vice? Also my biggest question is about the muzzle break. I'd like to make it a traditional style ak so how difficult is it to remove the factory break also one last thing I would like to re install the bolt hold open any thoughts thanks

 

[wally]

Also my biggest question is about the muzzle break. I'd like to make it a traditional style ak so how difficult is it to remove the factory break

Saigas don't come with any muzzle device or threads. Since the diameters seem to vary with the production run this will be the most difficult part of the conversion. But Dinzag can help a lot here with info and tool rental.

 

[Ignition Override]

mark87:
With 7.62x39 Golden Tiger ammo back to about $185/1,000 and nothing in .308 even close, you will be rewarded with so many more shooting sessions.

 

[wally]

With 7.62x39 Golden Tiger ammo back to about $185/1,000 and nothing in .308 even close

Aim Surplus recently had Tula .308 (same as Wolf without the red primer sealer as far as I can tell) for $5/20 which works out to $250/1000.

 

[Z-Michigan]

x39 given that the magazines are dramatically cheaper, easier to find, and proven in countless wars, compared to the x51 Saiga mags. Ammo cost is also a plus. That Tula ammo at AIM was marked as a clearance special, and is by far the cheapest .308 I've seen in a while.

 

[Girodin]

Saigas don't come with any muzzle device or threads

Actually more and more are showing up with threads underneath the shroud of the OME sight block. If you are buying a gun in person you could try to locate one.

There are various threads over on the S12 forum about adding a muzzle device.

 

[mshootnit]

I could not recommend other than the 308 with a good conscience. You have to take into account that the Saiga 308 is certainly the most accurate AK carbine ever brought into this country. I have one that hovers around 1 moa out to 200 meters. Sam 1911: have you ever actually shot a 16" Saiga 308. I can't believe that anyone would call their accuracy not great if they have been around one. Most I have read about are like mine going from 1.5-2 moa. You are talking a rifle that has very little recoil, and can be loaded with anything from 125 gr. Nozzler ballistic tips to approximate a "hotrod" 7.62X39 OR loaded up to 168 gr for accurate shooting or elk if you so desire. All this in a light little package that really is comfortable to shoot. (at least for me.) Also the Saiga 308's are the easiest to convert. You don't mess with a bullet guide, the grip nut hole was already there for mine. The 7.62X39 rifle for me is OK too but I could not pass down another 308 Saiga. I am thinking about getting 2 more one for each of my boys before they are all gone. I have owned 3 5.45 AK's ranging from 275 dollars to 800 dollars, two milled arsenal 7.62 AKs one Saiga and one Vepr 308. The Saiga 308 is the most accurate of all, while the Vepr 308 was close and a little more refined. I lucked out on my latest which is a SGL-31 and it is VERY nice. Got a Saiga 5.45 coming so I will be able to tell you about its factory accuracy as well.

 

[mark87]

great info thanks everyone I think I'll do both eventually maybe a .308 more of a sniper style target gun which would still be of use.

 

[rangerruck]

... Now I agree with the 762.39 here; the only way I would do a 308 saiga, is to get one allready converted-- that is to say, one that allready comes with either the hogsback or thumbhole stock. that way, you can keep a sporter version, which will allready have the better trigger group, and then you can also get some techno-ninja furniture as well, to make it more tacti-cool.
That will allow you to switch back and forth as you please.