SBR for hogs

[Sgt_Mike1]

Ok I'm dumping the .300 Black and kicking it completely out of my Safe... shifting back to the 5.56mm for this.

I decided on trying a Ballistic Advantage barrel for this, as such I had been debating internally between 12.5" or a 14.5". Had made up my mind to go with the 12.5" then what did I do?? ordered the 14.5" guess too many years humping a M4 overruled. While I would have preferred the 1-12" twist to double as a walking gopher gun.
The 1- 7" will do fine for hogs just have to remember to shoot the longer projectiles no 55 grainers for her lol.

The 14.5 incher is a mid- length, so went with a Seeking Precision Adjustable gas block, YHM 12" KR7 Rifle handguard. Set the Optics up for Leupold 1.5-4x cowitnessed to Trjicon Skeet IR Thermal clip on. Lets see how this barrel works out, if all good. Then it's screw on the suppressor and assassinate a sounder one by one. Just have to drag my BIL along.

 

[12Bravo20]

I would still try some good 55 grain bullets in that barrel. You might be surprised. Some 1-7 barrels will shoot 55 grain bullets quite well.

 

[horsemen61]

@Sgt_Mike1 Why are you dumping the .300 blackout?

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

I would still try some good 55 grain bullets in that barrel. You might be surprised. Some 1-7 barrels will shoot 55 grain bullets quite well.

Yes very few will you are correct in my experience, although I didn't write it I was planning on using the metric ton of 55gr I have to break in the barrel / tune buffer / and setup the gas system with no accuracy expectations except minute of barn. Then start load development.
On that note I was looking around after posting seen the Barnes 55gr, MPG bullet at .935" length it might perform well for accuracy in this twist. Also had forgotten that I think its fort scott munitions has a solid turned 55grs that like the Barnes is a long for weight bullet that probably do well.

@Sgt_Mike1 Why are you dumping the .300 blackout?

The .300 Black / Whisper did nothing great ballistically for me, except noise report (when subsonic) suppressed. When I went to the round I wasn't interested, rather peers seems to want me to go there. I've played with it for over 8 years now, in super / sub sonic, and even cast I developed loads that consistently fired extremely well under 200 yards. It is my least grabbed caliber now when going to the range now. Understand I don't hate the caliber. Just simply have other calibers that will do what it does and way more. The 99.9% reason is ammo mix up. The ability to inadvertently load a .300 black mag into one of my four other 5.56mm and the round to chamber . As I get older it is getting way too easy to mix up a magazine, it is that bolt face /magazine commonality that got it kicked out.
It is kind of hard to feed my 9mm AR SMG mag into my 5.56 or vise versa.

The reason I started the post as this is the first time for me trying a ballistic advantage barrel and having a Barrel that is nitrated / QPD or what ever they call it. I'm expecting it to rival the plain CM barrels I have in performance on paper.

 

[horsemen61]

Yes very few will you are correct in my experience, although I didn't write it I was planning on using the metric ton of 55gr I have to break in the barrel / tune buffer / and setup the gas system with no accuracy expectations except minute of barn. Then start load development.
On that note I was looking around after posting seen the Barnes 55gr, MPG bullet at .935" length it might perform well for accuracy in this twist. Also had forgotten that I think its fort scott munitions has a solid turned 55grs that like the Barnes is a long for weight bullet that probably do well.



The .300 Black / Whisper did nothing great ballistically for me, except noise report (when subsonic) suppressed. When I went to the round I wasn't interested, rather peers seems to want me to go there. I've played with it for over 8 years now, in super / sub sonic, and even cast I developed loads that consistently fired extremely well under 200 yards. It is my least grabbed caliber now when going to the range now. Understand I don't hate the caliber. Just simply have other calibers that will do what it does and way more. The 99.9% reason is ammo mix up. The ability to inadvertently load a .300 black mag into one of my four other 5.56mm and the round to chamber . As I get older it is getting way too easy to mix up a magazine, it is that bolt face /magazine commonality that got it kicked out.
It is kind of hard to feed my 9mm AR SMG mag into my 5.56 or vise versa.

The reason I started the post as this is the first time for me trying a ballistic advantage barrel and having a Barrel that is nitrated / QPD or what ever they call it. I'm expecting it to rival the plain CM barrels I have in performance on paper.

I understand I have a .300 blackout and a 5.56 AR’s and your point hits home and makes sense to me

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

Yeah, I was hoping that this would not turn into a caliber discussion, both work for hogs well .

BTW sidebar the BIL wanted the upper for his pistol. As his only Armalite Rifle format is a pistol, I don't see him making a mix up as easily as I would. He is extremely Happy, I'm happy ... worked out great, LOL what made him really happy was the 500 rounds that accompanied that upper. Couple that with him knowing that he could use my other "can" when we are hunting together.

Just thinking out loud here and thinking of what has been said of the nitrite /melonite / QPQ process. I might need to re-evaluate my barrel break in procedure. Thinking I might need to do as I would a chrome lined barrel vs a CM / SS barrel. And not too sure it's a moot point which I suspect it is.

 

[mavracer]

I would still try some good 55 grain bullets in that barrel. You might be surprised. Some 1-7 barrels will shoot 55 grain bullets quite well.

I would change that to most will as long as you are using good concentric bullets cheap FMJ are not concentric. Especially from an SBR where lower velocities reduce RPM.

ETA I have a 12.5" BA barrel on my SBR and has shot lights out with 50gr AE grey tip varmint or 77 SMKs from day one.

 

[CapnMac]

Probably depends on what sort of size pigs, and in what situation you're likely to meet up with them.

If a person is stalking, even workign a stand, I would likely want the sort of "surety" something in 6.5/6.8-30 cal provides in "knock down" if only to reduce the number of things to consider in brush or twilight or both. Maybe that's me.

My "reflex" would be to suppressed rather than SBR, unless all I was intending was clearing pig traps (which might want a suppressed handgun, instead).

Nothing wrong with using 5.56 on pigs, other than maybe wanting to skip head shots on boars--where it's not the skull penetration so much as getting enough damage to "turn off" a stubborn boar.

For my 2¢ dealing with feral pigs, 7.62x39 is near ideal in my book (other than being over-loud clearing pig traps).

 

[12Bravo20]

I would change that to most will as long as you are using good concentric bullets cheap FMJ are not concentric. Especially from an SBR where lower velocities reduce RPM.

ETA I have a 12.5" BA barrel on my SBR and has shot lights out with 50gr AE grey tip varmint or 77 SMKs from day one.

I didn't mention cheap FMJ bullets since the OP is using the rifle for hog hunting. And I have seen cheap 55 grain FMJ bullets not shoot well in 1-9 and 1-12 twist barrels too. In the end, one needs to see what bullets shoot best in their rifles.

 

[mcb]

I have not hunted hogs. But if I was going to hunt hogs with a 556 gun it would be a 20+-inch gun. I am not seeing any advantage to a SBR for 95% of the hog hunting I have watched. The long barrel is going to give you better velocity making it better for both Hog and long range gophers.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

Acting on my thoughts of the barrel I cleaned the new barrel before installing. Yeah this Nitrite / QPQ process seems to produce a feeling with jag and patch very familiar to a new chrome lined bore. I did get some residue out, but really a small amount, common for a new barrel.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

....... Especially from an SBR where lower velocities reduce RPM.

This got me to thinking before I drag the rifle to the range (it's closed today BTW) and try the 55grs while breaking in, and I'm bored so there is that.

Before I begin this silly drift understand I'm not saying Mavracer is wrong He is correct !! and I think he will be spot on with the word quality bullet not a crappy 55gr FMJ.

But the point is rather attempting to state that the twist effects the RPM more than velocity. Now I know that Temperature and altitude plays a radical effect, but I won't go down that route I'll use 59 degrees at sealevel.

Ok lets look at the M193 military load (with a crappy FMJ measures about .760" in length and has a boat tail just to get a SG factor when using a quality varmint FB the SG factor is kinda moot as the miller formula is really used for Boat tails) in the 5.56 that I think rifle shooter did in a article to show the velocity loss per inch (they also did .223 Rem loads, just picked the 5.56mm as a basis and as the .223 is held to a lower pressure the loss per inch is greater) . I'll start with the standard rifle length of 20" for the comparison

20" barrel 1-12 twist velocity 3306 fps will produce a rpm of 198,360 and SG factor of 1.274 This will be the baseline.
Same length barrel with a 7 twist produces 340,046 rpms SG of 3.743 that is a 141,686 rpm increase.
14" barrel with a 7 twist velocity drop to 3039 fps, RPM 312,583 SG 3.64.
14" barrel with a 8 twist same velocity Rpm is 273,510 SG 2.786
12" barrel velocity drops to 2919 fps a 7 twist will produce a RPM of 300,240 SG of 3.591 .
12" barrel change the twist to 8 the Rpm 262,710, Sg is at 2.749

Now is a 1-7" twist or a 1-12" twist exact ?? NO there are deviance that each manufacturer accepts so in reality could my or mavracer's barrel be closer to a 1-8 twist or the opposite direct close to a 1-6 twist, Yes sir it very well could be.
The only thing that this post proves is that twist rate affects the RPM greater than velocity as well as velocity losses per inch of barrel loss.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

But if I was going to hunt hogs with a 556 gun it would be a 20+-inch gun. I am not seeing any advantage to a SBR for 95% of the hog hunting I have watched.

20" barrel with a 5" to 7" suppressor adds that length to the overall length so a 27" barrel , if I used a 26" barrel add a 7" suppressor so 31". 14.5" with a 7" suppressor is 21.5" long . and is way lighter to hump around even with the suppressor. a 12.5" is just two more inches shorter.

 

[mcb]

20" barrel with a 5" to 7" suppressor adds that length to the overall length so a 27" barrel , if I used a 26" barrel add a 7" suppressor so 31". 14.5" with a 7" suppressor is 21.5" long . and is way lighter to hump around even with the suppressor. a 12.5" is just two more inches shorter.

I hear you, especially on the weight, but you give up a lot of range/terminal effectiveness with such short 556 barrels. Unless you are hunting hogs in really close dense terrain I would still rather have the barrel length in that cartridge for critters the size of hogs.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

yep close dense terrain here. Unlike Texas way more open, And yes I know exactly where your coming from and if I was in terrain similar to Texas I'd use my PD/gopher AR 26" barrel and a ATV.
But let's see I might go 2 or 3 times with my BIL maybe more depends on if the BIL really likes it, close dense terrain with a suppressor, at night with thermals at 61 years old and 100% disabled by the VA.

 

[BreechFace]

Close distance, dense terrain, hogs...

I would build a 10" 450 Bushmaster and hammer them, would probably still chunk a 250gr at 2,100fps.

I wouldn't trust a 5.56 short barrel on hogs, but that's me.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

.........ordered the 14.5" guess too many years humping a M4 overruled. While I would have preferred the 1-12" twist to double as a walking gopher gun.

I'm hoping that even though it's a 7 twist it will be accurate enough at 200yds and less (varmint loads) to work as a walking gopher gun too.

@BreechFace .450 Bush is a real good option and NOT a bad recommendation ... definitely can't chamber into the other AR's I have.
Might just might have a can that may support the .450, but it's a PCC can so I would think right off the bat it won't quick phone call to Yankee Hill to confirm. But honestly rebated rim, round up brass, different bullets different powder, dies, new can (maybe OMG a 2 year wait). could be done and is a good option.

added this after Breechfaces following post :
Although I have seen the .450 bush before went and looked up it up again ... yeah seeing how it is really close to a 45-70 kinda. I'm of the impression Nope my Yankee Hill can will not support that cartridge, will need a new one too much volume for the can to survive. But the cartridge is intriguing in a SBR, expectation of a .45 win mag on steroids comes to mind. (.460 SW to be exact)

 

[BreechFace]

@BreechFace .450 Bush is a real good option and NOT a bad recommendation ... definitely can't chamber into the other AR's I have.
Might just might have a can that may support the .450, but it's a PCC can so I would think right off the bat it won't quick phone call to Yankee Hill to confirm. But honestly rebated rim, round up brass, different bullets different powder, dies, new can (maybe OMG a 2 year wait). could be done and is a good option.

A 450 Bushmaster upper will pin right onto an AR15 lower.

Edit: After re-reading your post I get what you are saying. You were talking about the problem of your 300blk chambering in a 556.

 

[mavracer]

20" barrel 1-12 twist velocity 3306 fps will produce a rpm of 198,360 and SG factor of 1.274 This will be the baseline.

Just following ya down this rabbit hole but a SG of 1.274 is in the marginal range for stability and losing effective ballistic coefficient. With a 14" barrel the SG would be down to 1.22 dropping ~20 points off the BC.
If you're gonna hunt pigs I'd wanna shoot something heavier than 55 so a 1 in 12" wouldn't be great, maybe a 1 in 9 or 1 in 10. Bryan Litz at Applied Ballistics has plenty of articles on the subject.
This is from my 16" 1 in 7 twist with American Eagle 50gr grey tip Varmint at 100

 

[CapnMac]

Unlike Texas way more open,

Not all of Texas is wide open spaces, and our piggies then to find all the draws, sloughs, washes and the like, handy cover.
River, stream, and creek (crik) bottoms are all excellent pig habitat. 15 yards is as likely as 150.

Texas may be 800 miles across-both ways--but not all of that is good pig habitat. But, even up on the Edwards plateau, you'd not be out on the arid scrub grass plain, the pigs will be in the breaks and badlands that "crinkle" the plain.

The Panhandle has a feature, Palo Duro Canyon, the second larges US canyon behind the Grand Canyon. It's a habitat for all sorts of things.

You get in the scrub and bottom lands, and 14-16 inch barrel makes a lot of sense.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

With a 14" barrel the SG would be down to 1.22 dropping ~20 points off the BC.
If you're gonna hunt pigs I'd wanna shoot something heavier than 55 so a 1 in 12" wouldn't be great, maybe a 1 in 9 or 1 in 10. Bryan Litz at Applied Ballistics has plenty of articles on the subject.
This is from my 16" 1 in 7 twist with American Eagle 50gr grey tip Varmint at 100

(remember, I listed the Temp at 59 degrees in the calculations change that to 62 and higher and the SG drives up massively 1.3 to as high as 1.8 in the summer temps of Arkansas with a crappy BT FMJ, didn't use my Varmint bullet for the calculation which are shorter thus driving SG Higher)

Nice Grouping before I forget to mention it gives me hope (my Factory Colt 16" 1-7 Carbine can't touch it !!! the best I can get using a quality 40 to 55 gr bullet is 7" 5-shot group. Give it 69 to 90grainer yeah she will hold a 5 shot just like that at 200 yards)

YEP tracking with you on the pigs and 55grs and below sooo 69 -77 plus to 90 grs pills are onhand, ready to load, about 4K in 5.56mm brass ( LC) cleaned deprimed, sized and ready to prime. Not counting what I have loaded in varmint loads. My other 1-7's Like CFE223 with the 77gr SMK.

(using the 55grs to break in the barrel and just test to see if they will shoot, As for the hunt I will be using a more appropriate bullet)

 

[mavracer]

(remember, I listed the Temp at 59 degrees in the calculations change that to 62 and higher and the SG drives up massively 1.3 to as high as 1.8 in the summer temps of Arkansas with a crappy BT FMJ, didn't use my Varmint bullet for the calculation which are shorter thus driving SG Higher)

I had to go to 125 degrees at 7200 feet elevation to get a m193 bullet @ 2920 (your 14" velocity) to a 1.8 SG.

My point is not that a 1 in 12 SBR wouldn't work as a walking gopher gun, it was that it's not gonna stabilize the "SBR for hogs" bullets and therefore not really suitable for "double duty".
Ultimately 77gr SMKs work a lot better on gophers than 50gr V max do on hogs anyway lol.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

My point is not that a 1 in 12 SBR wouldn't work as a walking gopher gun, it was that it's not gonna stabilize the "SBR for hogs" bullets and therefore not really suitable for "double duty".

Yes my friend I actually got your point (the thought/inability to locate a 1-12 on hand vs the available 1-7), and I was hoping that it "might" work as a walking gopher gun ( the 1-7 twist that I did obtain at my desired price point) in addition to a primary of hogs / range. And yeah can shoot a gopher with a 77gr smk (just expensive compared to a lightweight varmint bullet)

but OK I plugged the Nosler 55 gr FBHP (0.710"length) in the calculator instead of the LONGER crappy military fmj boat tail ( 0.741" length), ran it at 2918 fps SG 1.481 ,then dropped the velocity to 2000 fps SG 1.306 left the temp at 59 degrees /sealevel. Big difference and is directly related to the different length of the bullet. ( my point was to use the crappiest worst bullet available in the 1-12 that is normally used in the stability calculation)

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

After my last reply, the rains had quit and the range had dried up so I rounded up the SBR multiple differing rounds M193's, M855, varmint loads (55gr Nosler Varmageddon FBHP with H335), some of my match loads in the 77 gr with IMR 4895 / CFE 223 / Varget, etc as well as a few 90gr loads in short 8 full ammo cans. Cleaning rods, ear pro, etc and off I go.

Adjusted the gas block first (with my worst can on), I then sit down to break in the barrel. The worst performer was actually M855, at the 100 yard line the best was my nosler varmint loads. I will drag her back out to start the actual load development at the 200 yard line and see if the Noslers hold up, but will focus on heavier / longer bullets. All the brass ejected at the 3 to 3:30 o clock position into their own piles depending up load. All in all the Ballistics Advantage barrel was exceeding my expectations. This was my first experience with Ballistic Advantage, nitrite /QPQ/ melonite finished , mid length gas system on a 14.5" barrel. Outside the range personnel I was the only one there at the range, which was really nice.

On the way home stopped at a buddies house out in the country side we was talking in his driveway and he was admiring the SBR. About 125 yards from us a small sounder (maybe up to 10 or so ) eased out into one of his fields, we stood there watched them for a few, identified what we thought was the alpha by his mannerism. Buddy says to me betcha can't drop that ******. I grinned grabbed the rifle from him, a 20 round mag out of the back seat took a rest off my dually's bed. Put the reticle just below and slightly behind the Alpha's ear opening. With the pop the Alpha went down head first kicked about three times or so. I settled in on two other sows on the run rolled them within three shots each before the sounder made it into the woodline. I cleared the weapon it was then that I noticed that I had grabbed my varmint load ( I had about 4/5 loaded mags with different loads in the back seat). None of the pigs was really big, but the alpha was decent size, the sows was young so smaller nothing to actually brag on.
So far very promising. more work will tell.

 

[mavracer]

but OK I plugged the Nosler 55 gr FBHP (0.710"length) in the calculator instead of the LONGER crappy military fmj boat tail ( 0.741" length), ran it at 2918 fps SG 1.481 ,then dropped the velocity to 2000 fps SG 1.306 left the temp at 59 degrees /sealevel. Big difference and is directly related to the different length of the bullet. ( my point was to use the crappiest worst bullet available in the 1-12 that is normally used in the stability calculation)

There's your reason short 1 in 12 barrels are unavailable, it's really too slow to reliably stabilize 55s. Might be ok for a dedicated varmint gun where you shoot 40-50s.

The worst performer was actually M855, at the 100 yard line the best was my nosler varmint loads. I

Yeah I've never had 855 shoot well too hard to manufacture and keep steel core concentric.
As for a 1 in 7 barrel shooting a good 55 gr bullet well whodathunkit.