Scandium Alloy Revolvers?

[CraigC]

I think that scandium is just for marketing. They don't use enough to make much of a difference, just to keep them from being liars.

Subtle endorsement of Ruger? I would pick a ruger if I wanted to shoot load after load in a portable package.

Sorta, it depends on the intended use. I love my S&W's but they simply don't hold up to a steady diet of full pressure loads. So I treat mine like slightly stronger .44Spl's and they're fed almost exclusively a 240gr at 1100-1200fps. They're not made any more and I want them to last. To me the 329 is a very specialized sixgun to be carried a lot and shot very little. Their light weight also makes them difficult to shoot accurately, in addition to the recoil aspect. I'd just rather carry a heavier, more capable gun.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I think that scandium is just for marketing. They don't use enough to make much of a difference, just to keep them from being liars.

That isn't really correct. It isn't the object to have pure or nearly pure scandium. The object is to make aluminum better. There isn't enough scandium to use it as the principal ingredient on a wide basis. Small amounts of scandium are able to considerably improve aluminum without much increasing its density or its cost. And if you look at the published specifications for the alloys, you will see that scandium does have an effect. Having said that, it is also true that it has largely disappeared from some of the other applications where it had been promoted like bicycle frames. It just wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[mcb]

You beat me to it. That's exactly right. Scandium sounds so much more exotic. While they are a pleasure to carry, you can wear them out. I never found the recoil objectionable even with pretty stout loads, but personally I would opt for steel. JMHO.

Most Scandium-Aluminum Alloys are only 0.1-1.0% scandium, but that small percentage makes a huge difference to the material properties. Scandium does allot to effect grain structure similar to the way carbon make Iron into steel. Steel typically has less 1% carbon to turn elemental Iron into Steel and yet you wouldn't want an iron revolver but steel is good to go. Even a modern alloy common in firearms like 4340 the highest alloying element is 1.6-2% nickle. All the other alloying elements are less than 1% each. 4340 is still >95% Iron. Yet its properties are significantly better than elemental iron.

 

[MrBorland]

Having said that, it is also true that it has largely disappeared from some of the other applications where it had been promoted like bicycle frames. It just wasn't worth the trouble

In the FWIW department, top-end aluminum bike frames have been upstaged by carbon fiber, but they still use scandium,and because it improves the qualities of aluminum for it's purpose.

In the early days (early 2000s), Easton was "the" company making scandium frames, and being the newest and coolest thing, their monopoly opened the door for ersatz knock-offs that had all sorts of problems. The problems (broken welds & frames) gave anything anything "scandium" a bad name, so while reputable makers of high-end aluminum frames continued to use scandium, they stopped using it as a brand.

 

[mcb]

In the FWIW department, top-end aluminum bike frames have been upstaged by carbon fiber, but they still use scandium,and because it improves the qualities of aluminum for it's purpose.

In the early days (early 2000s), Easton was "the" company making scandium frames, and being the newest and coolest thing, their monopoly opened the door for ersatz knock-offs that had all sorts of problems. The problems (broken welds & frames) gave anything anything "scandium" a bad name, so while reputable makers of high-end aluminum frames continued to use scandium, they stopped using it as a brand.

This is another place scandium as an alloying element shines, done right it makes Aluminum alloy welds significantly stronger.

 

[CraigC]

No kidding, guys. There's a lot of other crap in aluminum alloys too. The point is that there is only a tiny amount of scandium in their aluminum alloy but it is still an alloy comprised of mostly aluminum. Yet they call it simply "scandium". I'm sorry but "scandium" is used as a marketing term because it sounds more exotic. Calling an aluminum alloy "scandium" is like calling steel "carbon".

 

[1KPerDay]

The only Scandium revolver I've shot is a J frame. If course it's so light thereof recoil is greater than a heavier gun but not all that bad.

Some posts are telling you the recoil is unmanageable but felt recoil is subjective. I seem to be less sensitive to refill than some others. I feel it's in your mind and can be dealt with.

Was yours a magnum or a .38? I've let a lot of people, usually very experienced shooters, try one shot of full power 158s in my .357 and they invariably look at me like I'm a psychopath after one shot. Several have expressed that they would prefer having a bear chew their arm off rather than pull the trigger again. You are made of stout stuff, sir.

 

[rpenmanparker]

No kidding, guys. There's a lot of other crap in aluminum alloys too. The point is that there is only a tiny amount of scandium in their aluminum alloy but it is still an alloy comprised of mostly aluminum. Yet they call it simply "scandium". I'm sorry but "scandium" is used as a marketing term because it sounds more exotic. Calling an aluminum alloy "scandium" is like calling steel "carbon".

Thst’s exactly right. But if you know that going in, there should be no sense of getting ripped off because it isn’t 100% scandium. So many metal names are silly, it almost doesn’t make sense to bother noticing. Take for example “alloy” to mean aluminum alloy. Every metal in common use is an alloy. Why does aluminum get to wave that flag? Well it just does.

 

[CraigC]

I don't really care and make no judgments one way or another. I have exactly one lightweight revolver and it's an aluminum 442 that I don't even carry that much. I was just making an off the cuff comment.

It is irritating though how the term "alloy" is used in lieu of aluminum. I mean, we've only been in the age of alloys for what, 5000yrs and I don't think ancient civilizations were using 7075.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I don't really care and make no judgments one way or another. I have exactly one lightweight revolver and it's an aluminum 442 that I don't even carry that much. I was just making an off the cuff comment.

It is irritating though how the term "alloy" is used in lieu of aluminum. I mean, we've only been in the age of alloys for what, 5000yrs and I don't think ancient civilizations were using 7075.

Yep.. that’s what I’m talking about.

 

[Coop45]

Hey Coop45, I was in the 3/3 myself a long time ago!

2/3 Rent A Battalion here. A really long time ago. S/F Brother!

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Theyll stand up to the abuse, You wont. The 329 is a gorgeous gun but full .44 mag loads will rock your world.

This.

Scandis are plenty strong but recoil gets ridiculous.

 

[Englishmn]

My 360 SC with 158's is similar to catching the far end of a baseball bat mid swing.

 

[Boarhunter]

...or holding an M80 in your hand as it explodes....

BOARHUNTER

 

[Boarhunter]

...or pounding your palm with a ball peen hammer...

BOARHUNTER

 

[Englishmn]

Perhaps, but you still have your fingers.
Although after 15 rds I couldn't shoot it anymore. I can do 5 easy and put them where I want.

 

[sgt127]

If you want a super lightweight gun with great horsepower, it’s there waiting for you.

If you just want the experience of shooting one, without the cost, find a nice 1970’s 2 door Buick or Oldsmobile. Open the door as far as you can. Place your right hand just about where the latch is. Have a good sized friend slam the door shut.

I just saved you a bunch of money. You’re welcome.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Was yours a magnum or a .38? I've let a lot of people, usually very experienced shooters, try one shot of full power 158s in my .357 and they invariably look at me like I'm a psychopath after one shot. Several have expressed that they would prefer having a bear chew their arm off rather than pull the trigger again. You are made of stout stuff, sir.

It was a .357 Magnum and we shot 158gr Speer GDHP ammo. I'm not saying it was a cakewalk but it also wasn't like hitting my palm with a hammer like I have heard some shooters say. Of course it was very snappy and tried to spin out of my hand but what can be expected from a 12oz .357 Magnum revolver?

Don't get me,wrong, I didn't enjoy shooting it, that's why I don't own one. I prefer an all steel 23oz J frame .357 Magnum or a 15oz J frame .38 Special.

 

[mcb]

I borrowed a 340PD before buying myself an aluminum alloy framed snub nose. I bought a 442 moonclip.

 

[Crowman]

I like the alloy guns for particular applications. Right now, my dress up go to town gun is a M&P 340 Scandium alloy J-Frame 357 Magnum with night sight. This gun is easy to wear all day long and does not print when I wear my OWB pancake holster. I detest IWB carry! Not a fit for me. The M&P no-lock 340 is loaded with standard pressure 38 Special 158 grain JHP for personal defense. To me, Magnums for antipersonnel use in J-Frames are excessive and limit recovery for follow up shots. 38 Specials are easy to shoot accurately in these guns. But, because I also tote a larger 357 Magnum side arm (Match Champion) when ridge walking, I wanted my CCW to have common ammo capacity. (Yes, I carry both). I also have a Sc alloy 3” Model 317 Kit Gun in a zipper pouch with 22 LR ammo assortment as part of a basic survival package. Also own several Night Guards in various calibers. The alloy revolver niche is carry all day, shoot little (except the 317, that is)... The 386NG is both comfortable to shoot and accurate with 158 grain JHP Magnums.


Shooting 158 grain JSP Magnums in the M&P 340 is like walking up to a concrete block set at waist height and you hold your gun hand above your head, then slam it down as hard as you can flat on the block. Shooting 180 grain hard cast RNFP-GC bear loads becomes an almost religious experience. Done both to see how and where they shot.

 

[Dave T]

The 386NG is both comfortable to shoot and accurate with 158 grain JHP Magnums.

I must be getting old, or the arthritis in my hands has ruined me more than I want to admit. 158g Magnums hurt like (expletive deleted) in the 386 NG I have. Even Buffalo Bore Heavy +P 158g SWCHP-GC rounds jump around more than I like.

Take my word for it and don't get old if you can avoid it! (smile)

Dave

 

[Crowman]

I must be getting old, or the arthritis in my hands has ruined me more than I want to admit. 158g Magnums hurt like (expletive deleted) in the 386 NG I have. Even Buffalo Bore Heavy +P 158g SWCHP-GC rounds jump around more than I like.

Take my word for it and don't get old if you can avoid it! (smile)

Dave

I’m no spring chicken myself...lots of high mileage wear and tear. Bad knees, bum hip, stiff hands, etc. it is a bi... gettin’ old.

I changed the grips on my 386 Night Guard to Pachmayr Diamond D grips. They make Magnums in it doable. I put the same ones on my Match Champion and 640 Pro Series. Real soft and squishy. Don’t hurt my hand.

 

[JohnKSa]

...that small percentage makes a huge difference to the material properties.

Correct.

Here's an informative article for those who find metallurgy interesting.

http://aluminiuminsider.com/aluminium-scandium-alloys-future/

It takes very little Scandium to result in dramatic strength increases. One aluminum alloy tested was increased in strength by 1500% from the addition of only 0.4% Scandium.

Here's one example from the article.

Very little amount of scandium is needed to improve aluminium alloys properties, less than 1wt% (weight percent). For instance, alloying scandium with aluminium-magnesium alloy increases its yield strength by up to 150% while preserving density and resistance to corrosion. In addition, scandium increases the quality of the alloy’s welded joints, avoiding cracking at welds and increasing fatigue life by up to 200%.
​

That strength increase was from adding a quarter of one percent (0.25%) scandium to the alloy.

 

[340PD]

I regularly shoot my 340PD or a friends 360PD usually 50-100 rounds 158 gr. factory or handloads. My 340 has CT LG405 lasergrips and the 360 wears stock S&W rubber. If you run this gun on a regular basis you will find to to be accurate at 25yd's and capable at 50yd's and recoil is noticeable I am not recoil sensitive and I have a few lesser caliber small semi's that are far more robust in the recoil department.
With respect to finish issues, my 340 has a titanium cylinder and although I avoid any ammonia based products, I have cleaned it using about everything else with no issues. Scandium frames make for a very interesting and functional firearm. I think the 329 shot with 44 special loads would be a hoot to own. Woods carry, mayve a chamber or two 44 sp. and the rest, 44 Mag for sure.

 

[DesertVet]

I carried a Smith 340 Airlite Ti as an Agency approved backup but it blew apart and went to Smith and Wesson. Sent me a replacement 640 Pro.
I have a Smith and Wesson Model 360 around the house but it hasn’t seen heavy use.