School me on ARs, please - looking to purchase first

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Why is that?

The longer your gas tube, the less gas pressure gets sent to the bolt, the bolt stays locked longer, chamber pressure is lower when the bolt does unlock, and you have less violent cycling. This in turn results in less perceived recoil and is easier on the bolt lugs, extractor, etc.

BTW. the first thing to break on any AR is often the bolt and/or extractor. Granted, it usually takes many thousands of rounds, but they are wear items. An AR bolt can even continue to function with one or two missing lugs, but it will happen eventually. Firing pin breakages are rare, but its recommended to have a spare bolt and pin on hand just in case. Magpul actually makes a carrier for these parts which slips into their pistol grip!

Seperated case heads are rare, but a longer gas tube makes them less likely as well.

My daughter has an 18" with a middy tube and it is one sweet, soft shooter. That said, the vast majority of 16" guns have a short "carbine" length tube, and run just fine for a long, long time.

 

[Zerodefect]

If you get a fixed front sight upper, get a fixed carry handle rear sight for it and keep it as a KISS carbine. My Colt 6920 has been flawless this way. I added an ambi safety and Magpul grip.

If you want a red dot, get a railed upper for that.

If you're going to sweat about recoil from gas tube length, you'll have to go with a rifle gas system. Carbine gas vs middy is BS. Get a JP rifle if this is important.

 

[drobs]

Get a Colt 6920 and shoot the hell out of it. It's not fancy, but it's right. Don't worry about barrel profiles or free float tubes or whether or not you need a forward assist or adjustable stock. By the time you're standing in a big pile of empties, those questions will have answered themselves.

Other brands like PSA are ok, but you gotta know how to troubleshoot problems or chances are you'll be back here asking how to get your AR to stop "double feeding" or some other malfunction. The good news is, once an AR of any brand is sorted out, it'll run a long time.

Or you could spend a little more and buy yourself something nice, like a Colt 6920.

I've never had to trouble shoot a PSA. Slap em together and they work perfectly. If they don't work, call em up and send it back.

I have had problems with:
DSA - complete upper - double feeds
Radical Fireams - complete upper - double feeds - avoid these like the plague.
Any complete upper from Gunbroker - had what was sold to me as a Bushmaster upper - double feeds.
As much as I like Gunbroker, I'll never buy another upper from there again.

I personally avoid Bear Creek Arsenal.

My only non-PSA AR15 that I still own is a Windham that I gave $800 for a few years back. In the past I've owned Bushmaster (original owners), Delton, and Rock River. All were fine.

Another reason I like PSA:


Maximum Freedom over Maximum Profits.

 

[Peepsman]

I pieced together a PSA 16" stainless barrel in 5.56 for less than $500. Have added a few items such as a Sig red dot, and Magpul furniture. Also a coated bolt assembly, and a 3.5 pound trigger. It will run 2 inches at 100 yards all day long no matter what I run through it. It has never failed me, and has been dropped at the range and thrown into the back of the car and bounced around. I do clean and lube after any range time, as I know some people will let them get fairly dirty before service. My only recommendation is 5.56 vs 223. I was always informed running 223 in 5.56 was ok, but not the other way around. Good luck and have fun.

 

[sarduy]

Budget? $1000


More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in

You just opened a Pandora’s box hahaha

if its your first ar, I strongly recommend a palmetto state armory one, they are milspec and reliable. It will give you the chance to learn the rifle and upgrade as you learn. The 300-400 dollars you safe can be used for extra ammo, mags, optics and training. I recommend training over extra stuff for the rifle other than a 2 point sling everything can be changed once you start to find what you like. If you want something better looking, go with Aero Precision. Great company and the product is very good.

 

[entropy]

Having rebuilt M16A1's for Uncle Sam (well, the 56th Med Bn and 2/9 Cav) , and several AR's for myself, those with some different upper lower combos, I will say that unless you use one for a living, I will agree with NIGHTLODR40K that the DD, LaRue, LWRC, etc. level rifle are not necessary. Nice, to be sure, but the Ruger and S&W are the best value off the rack. Del-Ton are decent also. Both my sons bought DPMS (now defunct) rifles when they decided on an AR, and they were good guns.
For my builds, I used Anderson lowers, and they were fine. As others said, mil-spec, but no more. The 7" pistol upper was a CDNN, meh. The first 10.5" was a Palmetto, (Mlock 7" forend) it's a better quality than the CDNN one was. The last one was a Bear Creek 10.5", Mlock 10.5" upper. Also a good one, and the price (was on sale) was great. I have since put that upper on a 17 Design folding lower https://www.17designandmfg.com/project-development/folding-lower/ as this AR was to be a backpackable pistol. I am impressed with this lower; locks up solid, easy to use.
Get a Ruger (my #1 choice for off-the-shelf) or S&W (2nd) and keep us updated. You have many people here that are willing to help in any way. Oh, I forgot to add, buy them all! I wouldn't be a proper THR enabler if I didn't end with that!

 

[BreechFace]

Great pic of the kids, notice the trigger discipline!

The one on the right is thinking about it...

Nice picture, good looking family!

 

[FL-NC]

Of what you mentioned, I would go with S&W or Ruger. They fit the budget and uses you outlined, and if something is wrong with either, they will make it right. Cheaper to go with a kit from PSA though. Your choice.

 

[GravelRider]

I'll jump on the bandwagon and recommend a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) for a great budget first AR. I have 3 or 4 of them in my stable. They're not the best out there, but they're not lacking either. They are a good F150 (XLT trim) of ARs. The company ships fast and is awesome to deal with too, which also figures into my recommendation.

If you want to spend just a bit more, I really like the S&W ARs. They have excellent fit and finish for their price point, and accuracy is there too. I can't outshoot my S&W AR.

I'd also recommend going with mil-spec rather than commercial spec, whichever brand you go with. The reason I recommend this is that you pick one standard and stick with it, and then you can get whatever aftermarket crap you want and not have to worry about whether it will fit (well, most of the time, anyhow). And there is a lot more to choose from with mil-spec.

 

[deputy bruce]

This just my opinon but if I was you I would buy a complete rifle being it is you first one.After that you can build one. Just get used to the operation first it is along way from a bolt gun. Try to get with a level headed person to show you the ropes you won't be sorry.

 

[ECVMatt]

Well since this is turning into a PSA love fest....I recently bought three PSA uppers and they have all been great. I wanted to build a couple of KISS AR's to leave at my family's house up in the desert. The pandemic and accompanying riots showed me that there may be times when it is safer to drive there from work rather than return home. These rifles would be there if needed.

I bought two Premium,16" CHF barreled, mid-length gassed, uppers with a FSBs. I threw Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed sights on the rear and used A1 length stocks. The rifles fit me prefect, shoot soft, and are more than accurate. I liked them so much I actually kept one at home and moved another rifle to the desert house. The other upper is from the Premium line as well and all three have been 100% with several hundreds of rounds down the pipe.

I would probably still buy a CR6920 if I was only going to have one, but choosing PSA would also work.

Here is one of the rifles I assembled because what is an AR thread without AR pictures. And yes I know the grip fin, and I should move and all that. I am going to move once I retire in a few years but for now I must live with the dreaded fin....

 

[Moparnut]

Ok Team, I know next to nothing about ARs. Well, I know there are different caliber options, uppers, lowers, but that’s about it.

Gas piston, direct impinge, gas block, staked, pinned, chrome lined bores….I’m lost.

That out of the way, what I’m interested in - and relying on my fellow THR enablers - is research and experience! Tell me your horror stories and what you learned the hard way.

I want a 223, preferably a 1x7 or 8 twist (so I can run the 50-77grs), carbine (16”) length, and I think mil-spec “furniture” as opposed to “commercial?”
Seems the prices are finally coming down, so probably better to buy on the dip.

Not really looking to hunt with, but might with another upper one day. Coyotes and maybe a small hog.

Budget? $1000 or just under.
Brands I’ve looked at:
Windham
CMMG
Anderson
Ruger
Smith & Wesson

More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in. Doesn’t have to be the top-of-the-line, but rather a solid choice. What do I need and can do without?

Thanks in advance.

My honest opinion for you would be to buy a fully assembled AR from a reputable company, at least for your first. IMHO

Of the companies you mentioned I would suggest a the S&W.

Some of the others you mentioned did or do have proprietary parts (delta rings, etc) and may not be readily adaptable to aftermarket parts in the future.

A PSA upper and lower (pre-assembled) can save you some money though.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Moparnut]

Ok Team, I know next to nothing about ARs. Well, I know there are different caliber options, uppers, lowers, but that’s about it.

Gas piston, direct impinge, gas block, staked, pinned, chrome lined bores….I’m lost.

That out of the way, what I’m interested in - and relying on my fellow THR enablers - is research and experience! Tell me your horror stories and what you learned the hard way.

I want a 223, preferably a 1x7 or 8 twist (so I can run the 50-77grs), carbine (16”) length, and I think mil-spec “furniture” as opposed to “commercial?”
Seems the prices are finally coming down, so probably better to buy on the dip.

Not really looking to hunt with, but might with another upper one day. Coyotes and maybe a small hog.

Budget? $1000 or just under.
Brands I’ve looked at:
Windham
CMMG
Anderson
Ruger
Smith & Wesson

More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in. Doesn’t have to be the top-of-the-line, but rather a solid choice. What do I need and can do without?

Thanks in advance.

One AR that is not on your list and is a fine shooter is an IWI Zion 15.

Full length pic rail, mid-length gas system, free float handguard with m-lok, B5 grip and butt stock. One Magpul mag.

Downside is there are no sights on it. Can be had for around $800 and up.

 

[Anchorite]

I should have stated in the OP I was *not* interested in a self-build.

 

[Moparnut]

I should have stated in the OP I was *not* interested in a self-build.

Well, you could still get an upper and lower (fully assembled) from palmetto. All you would do is pin them together. Sometimes they run pretty good sales and can save you a ton of money that way.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

My PSA is an A2ish rifle. I upgraded the "mispec" trigger with a 2 stage Larue version and the rifle sports a 1-4 scope. It is accurate and has worked well.
I also have an SW with the carbine 1-9 twist heavy barrel and it too is reliable and accurate. It's trigger has been pretty good from the start.
In the bedroom closet is a "mixmaster" M4gery that I have also replaced the "milspec" trigger with a Larue single stage trigger group. It has a Romeo dot site and is also reliable and accurate.
My main point is that in my experience the triggers are the only thing that has been needing to be "tweaked" on the ones that I shoot.

 

[GravelRider]

I should have stated in the OP I was *not* interested in a self-build.

And just to be clear, Palmetto also has fully built guns. Here's one example, an AR pistol for under $500

https://palmettostatearmory.com/cyb...tr-classic-stealth-pistol-w-carry-handle.html

 

[Skylerbone]

It’s yours to decide but here’s what I would recommend as an AR, ignoring the “first” part of that. Some people never buy a second, I know, sounds crazy, so find one that shoots well and is configured for accuracy rather than the end of days.

Aero was mentioned, they make an outstanding performer for far less than many “duty rated” rifles, adding accuracy without sacrificing reliability.

Skip the 16” for an 18”, go mid length or rifle, choose an MLOK railed model (longest rail you can find), add a linear comp, don’t settle for a milspec stock, and find a grip that’s comfortable for you (I recommend the K2+ from Magpul). Buy a ToolCraft BCG.

https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precision-m4e1-threaded-barrel-upper-556-rifle-atlas-s-one-18in

https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-pr...r-receiver-moe-sl-grip-sl-carbine-stock-black

https://palmettostatearmory.com/too...158-nitride-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group.html

https://www.primaryarms.com/radian-weapons-ar15-m16-raptor-ambidextrous-charging-handle-black
That leaves about $200 for optics.



This is configured for SD, not what I would recommend unless you intend to dedicate the rifle to that task.


Here’s a fine Modern Sporting Rifle. Aero upper/lower/handguard. Ballistic Advantage floated barrel, KVP comp, Magpul stock/grip, ToolCraft BCG, Jard flat trigger, Warne 1-piece mount. Right at $1k as built, probably cheaper to buy fully assembled upper and lower, but was my daughter’s build.

 

[kje54]

Everyone has their favorites as well as the "stay away from" list and that's to be expected, we all develop our preferences and dislikes for a multitude of reasons. There are those who will nay-say me over this but I have 3 ARs built with Bear Creak Arsenal uppers and PSA lowers (except one is all BCA). I did have to send one upper back at their cost and they fixed the problem and sent it back to me at their cost. All of them perform quite adequately for me and all cost me between $400 and $500, all of them use heavy barrels as opposed to light or medium barrels. Also two for my 3 BCAs are side charging which I love. I also have an Aero Precision upper (medium barrel) on an Anderson lower I recently put together and that's nice. I would also recommend the M&P Sport, that's a well made rifle.

It's like Lay's potato chips, I couldn't eat just one............

 

[Megawatt maker]

I've built 10 ARs from kits bought from PSA. I've used their bottom barging basement kit...all the way up to top shelf stuff.

All just work. The difference between the cheap kit and top end is a little tighter groups with factory ammo...but ALL the kits perform well with a specialized handloads. Some of my rifles even perform well with a shared handload...only a few need their very own.

The thing with PSA...if you read the specs...they are now using the best materials in almost all their kits...better Aluminum...the better grade steels...the better grade Stainless...the same stuff used by the Big name (AND big price) custom makers.

The custom jobs are of coarse better...but IMO..not so much better to justify the price. Like Colts were and still are...you are only paying for the name stamped on the lower...and not getting anything better than anyone else.

Again...my opinions but they are formed by my experience.
Whats nice about ARs . you can always change and add different or better parts anytime you want...with extreme ease.

Its up to you if you think paying twice or more as much for a Daniel Defense or whoever is worth it to you...

Myself...I can buy a top grade barrel, adjustable gas block..etc and make just about any AR a tack driver...and do that for a lot less than paying for the stamp on the lower...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Skylerbone]

I have purchased from PSA as well, again I recommend Aero. Sometimes the lower priced option eats you to death in the end with upgrades. Adding $150 for a new barrel and $75 for a good charging handle makes a $550 PSA into a $775 PSA who’s fit and finish doesn’t match the Aero at pennies price difference.





MLOK swivel socket, NOT standard when I bought this upgraded SS upper from PSA, add another $20. Integrated into both my Aero handguards.

 

[readyeddy]

If your budget of $1000 includes the glass, then I would get a PSA complete lower and upper for around $500 and use the rest to get the best low power variable scope you can find. If the $1000 is for just the rifle, then any of the more expensive guns recommended here would do fine.

 

[Choctaw]

I should have stated in the OP I was *not* interested in a self-build.

With PSA you can buy complete uppers and lowers and simply snap them together and go shoot. They really aren't a self build and as others have said will save you some money, perhaps for decent sights and a good optic.

 

[ev780]

You may or may not realize it yet this is one of those N+1 situations.

My MO, as gun purchases go, is to buy a company's base model and upgrade the parts I want not the ones they want.

One guy's opinion.

 

[kimberkid]

If I knew then what I know now ... find a SiG 556 or 553 and be done with it.



or with a collapsible stock ...