Scotland: Eight years on and still no gun register

[G36-UK]

I think Lo.Com.Denom said it best. It's not that the antis were in the majority, but rather the gun owners were a smaller minority, and as such had a smaller voice.

Now, even airsoft is getting threatened due to the GCN claiming they can be converted to fire live rounds.

Don't get me wrong - I have a lot of sympathy for people who lose loved ones to gun violence. However, if my sympathies are played on, that sympathy goes. And (as is the case with Airsoft), if lies are told, I will do all I can to have these lies known.

A just cause is one that is is never furthered by lies. There's a petition signed by a load of the players over here (and supporters in other countries), but I doubt we'll have enough to convince the politicians.

(Sorry, I know replicas ain't much of a concern here, but there are people on other forums that I consider friends (similar to here), who will lose their jobs by the banning of sales.)

 

[MasterPiece Arms.com]

Plus, it's very hard to oppose the bereaved parents of 16 dead children without coming across as complete scumbags.

Exactly. That is why those who control the dark side of governments love these type of agent provocateur attacks to pass their legislation.

I believe there's a journalist who has uncovered evidence that Hamilton was protected by the police and who is trying, against severe obstruction from the police, to get the case examined in court.

He'll see even more blatant and institutionalized obstruction if it makes it into the universally corrupt court system, which is nothing but government rubber stamps and cover up centers. If he's doesn't shut up, he could end up committing "suicide" by multiple shots to the back of the head in the pattern of Vince Foster's "suicide."

Sadly in the USA, there are probably hundreds of federal whistleblowers currently languishing in federal prisons [gulags] as a result of trying to expose the deep and systematic dark side of government (some were dark side operators and some were just honest government employees). There are many accounts of federal whistleblowers getting to "court" and the only items the corrupt judge will allow are the defendant's illegal activities. Evidence that he was doing it on behalf of the government [and who his handlers were] is sometimes abruptly disallowed using unusual legal arguments.

People who are used by the dark side of government for illegal activities are chosen from the bottom of the dregs of society, and frequently have criminal histories or serious mental problems [this Hamilton guy is a classic example of this]. If the human asset ever turns on his handlers, the handlers sometimes can just tip off the local police and have him arrested for the very thing the government was using him to do. Having to kill a turncoat asset is in every other movie but is actually extremely rare. The rush to execute Tim McVeigh was beyond suspicious, given his known [uninvestigated, and possibly middle eastern] accomplices that the government strangely refused to pursue.

The icing on the cake is when government refuses to release loads of information proportedly to "protect the families of the victims."

 

[swampsniper]

Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/arbroath_english.html

 

[Lo.Com.Denom]

I believe that the "Tamsin Lewis" mentioned in MasterPiece's link, was the journalist I was thinking of. I don't know about government involvement, but I reckon the police certainly have some explaining to do and the case needs to be looked at again.
That link was actually quite enlightening. I didn't know that only about 428,000 (was it?) people actualy signed the ban petition - that leaves about 60,000,000 people who didn't sign the petition !!
Didn't know that the tories tried to repeal the ban last year either! If only we'd had "proportional representation" in the last election, who knows what might have been (wistful sigh)...

Oh, and swampsniper, you've got it bass-ackward! haven't you ever heard of the West Lothian Question? (Just kidding G36-UK )

 

[Mk VII]

Still not working, and likely to be scrapped

VICTIMS OF DUNBLANE BETRAYED
Gun register plan is scrapped
By Bob Roberts Deputy Political Editor

PLANS for a national guns database are to be scrapped - 10 years after it was promised following the Dunblane massacre. Senior Home Office sources said it looked increasingly unlikely that the National Firearms Register would be set up.
It was meant to keep a computer record of everyone in the country who applied for a gun licence. It was designed to stop anyone applying for a licence in one place after they had been turned down elsewhere. It would also have kept a record of all lost and stolen firearms to stop legal guns getting into circulation among criminals.
Campaigners hoped the register would be set up before March 13, 2006, the 10th anniversary of the tragedy, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead teacher Gwen Mayor and 16 children at Dunblane primary school in Perthshire before killing himself. But in a written Commons answer, Home Office Minister Hazel Blears said pilot schemes had again been delayed and were "rescheduled" to start this month.
She added: "The Home Office and the Police Information Technology Organisation are committed to commencing roll-out to all forces in the new year." But there is now no target date to set up the register nationwide.
And the Home Office sources said ministers no longer wanted to force all chief constables to sign up to it. One said: "There is just not the will to deal with another big, complicated computer project on a national basis. All the energies are going into setting up a database for ID cards and this isn't a priority any longer."
PE teacher Eileen Harrild, shot four times by Hamilton, was appalled. She said: "It's just ridiculous. People have very short memories. Anything that controls guns better is a much more sensible way of going forward."
Dunblane resident Ann Pearston, whose Snowdrop Petition led to a ban on handguns after the tragedy, slammed the delay as "short-sighted". She said: "We need to know when people are moving around the country with guns. It's about protecting society from these rare but horrific incidents."
Inverness MP Danny Alexander said: "It is disgraceful that it has been delayed yet again. Failure to set it up at all would be outrageous."
The £5.5million computer system has been plagued by problems. The first pilot failed - the system could not print firearm certificates and police complained it ran "incredibly slowly". It also had problems linking with the national DNA database and criminal records' police computers.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_objectid=16388049&method=full&siteid=94762-name_page.html

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'd like one of the mental midgets in Scotland to explain exactly HOW a multi-million dollar registry of firearms would in any way have averted or prevented the incident from ocurring.

In the first place, laws don't prevent crime; in the second, leftists never explain, never cease to complain.

 

[G36-UK]

I turns out that one of my teachers used to be on here. He's also a member of the club Hamilton went to.

He said that there was a third incident which involved Hamilton being caught with an unlicenced pistol (Big no-no here). Rather than revoking his licence, it was added to the pistols he was licenced for.

I've found out what the other two incidents were. I think I explained that he threatened to shoot his neighbour, but before that, he was caught bringing it into a school (foreshadowing?).

 

[beerslurpy]

Youre telling me it has taken them nearly a decade to write a database application that can print documents? Too funny. I have undertaken bigger projects on friday afternoons.

And a million records is nothing unless you intentionally design the schema with inefficiency in mind. I'm sure that a journey through their code would be quite hilarious. A programmer taking 10 years to accomplish a simple task usually means there are a chinese army worth of easter eggs hidding through the application. Maybe even an adventure game or two.

 

[sterling180]

Reasons Why Hamilton got kicked out

G36-UK

I will list some of the reasons why Hamilton was kicked out of his gun clubThe reasons that I saw in past copies of the Gun Mart magazine and on the mass-murder website.)

1. Whilst taking part in Police and Service Pistol competitions, he continued to fire at targets, regardless of the rules of engagement in the competition. The range officer told him: "Thats bloody well out of order,Piss off"

2. he freaked out fellow club members by showing them pictures of boys from his youth clubs, naked exept dressed in uniform-black swimming trunks and shorts and said he liked them looking like that.

3. He was obssessed with corporal punishment and would beat boys if they fell below his standards, -with metal bars. He apparently boasted this to horrified fellow club members.

4. After one competition, he accepted a lift from his club secretary and told the secretarys daughter-who was a probationer at the time-in the car that he loved his guns in such away and he was allegedly stroking them and fondling the actions of his pistols. The club secretarys daughter later said: "That one is a right weirdo, stay away from him."

5. He stripped-off his clothes and ordered boys from his club to rub body lotion onto his naked body, whilst he moaned and groaned, almost having a sexual-orgasm.

He was known to the police and the locals as "Mr Creepy".Doesn't that tell you Dont renew this guys license.

You ruined our sport for the entire nation, Hamilton you Frigging bastard ???????, etc. I hope you Frigging burn in hell you Scum!

 

[Firethorn]

BeerSlurpy, I have to agree with you.

I've worked with million record relational databases on my desktop!

For that matter, this sounds like it could have almost been handled with a flat-file database.

The only complications would be intigrating them with the standard ancient criminal databases. Still, even without that you'd simply need to perform two checks. Make sure the applicant isn't in the criminal database(like our NICS check), then pull up or create their record in the gun one.

Not that I support a registry system such as this, but viewing it as a technical problem.

 

[LAR-15]

Hamliton didn't ruin crap.

The police let him get away with the shooting. They did it on purpose but why?

Were some of the cops fondling boys along with Hamilton?

Were they creepy perverts too?

Lots of unanswered questions lie with the POLICE

 

[sterling180]

Cops were implicated in this scandal

LAR-15

Im sorry to tell you this, but Hamilton did ruin the sport because he killed those children and their teacher, thus giving those implicated cops an advantage to cover their asses by giving them a get out of jail card,so that the media would'nt question their credibility.Instead all eyes turned to the guns and how Hamilton got them, disregarding how he was really allowed to acquire them, in the first place.

This massacre gave THE POLITITIONS the opportunity to ban handguns as proof how dangerous they are, in the wrong hands.That Bastard Hamilton started the ball rolling for this stupid legislation, because he killed people.The present UK government doesn't seem to care that much about gun-owners rights, they care about removing potential threats from society. There are many other reasons why we have the laws we have, but I will explain later.

The Conservative government banned full-bore handguns, because of public pressure in Scotland and because they though this stunt would make them more popular in the UK than New Labour, thus hoping to beat them in the 1997 General Election.

You are absolutely right about some cops being creepy perverts and the Cheif Constable-no exeption- signed Hamiltons license, in the knowledge that he was of unsound mind and unsuitable to own a gun. The cheif renewed his license at some-point before the massacre.

Thomas Hamilton in exchange for having his license renewed and counter-signed, supplied those members of the Police with child-pornography and related material. Those officers did'nt care about his mental stability,as long as they got their fix of child-porn.

In 1991 a detective -Sergent submitted a report to the cheif, stating that Hamilton was mentally unstable and that he was a timebomb ticking away .This report along with local peoples letters went unanswered. I wonder why????????

When the truth came out, partially, most people were angry with the police for allowing this to happen, but alot of people believed that a pistol is:inappropriate for civillians to use,that the public don't need them for target-shooting, that pistols like the Browning Hi-Power GP-35 and Smith and Wesson 586 are killing-machines, etc.

Okay LAR-15, you are right about the foul-play by those dirty cops, but the antis strongly believe that if guns were banned, then idiots like Thomas Hamilton,Micheal Ryan,Kevin Weaver and Robert Sartin, would never have killed the people they killed, with legally held guns.

I find explaining our mentality hard to Americans and to others who can't understand the UK, logic. The UK government wants to be proactive in its approach to mass-murder and it also has pressure put on it by the antis, that will affect its term in power.

A CONSTITUTION LIKE THE US CONSTITUTION KEEPS ANTIS AWAY AND AT BAY.

This scandal is similar to the Port-Arthur tradgedy where a man purchased an AR-15 and an SLR FAL,from a licensed shop without a license and John Howard blames launches attacks on legally-held self-loading rifles and shotguns. This Howard man is a fraudster, he calls himself a Tory, he hates all guns and he is worse than Tony Blair and John Major in his gun policies.Not even Blair has demanded a ban on pump and self-loading shotguns in the UK.

 

[swampsniper]

"The UK government wants to be proactive in its approach to mass-murder".
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wouldn't want to be there when they get "proactive" on rape!

 

[G36-UK]

Sterling:
Thanks, mate. I wonder, did you hear about Mike Yardley giving a speech to Mothers Against Illegal Guns about ten years back, then getting forced off the stage by the Gun Control Network?

I just wonder if there's anyone who can confirm this.

 

[wjustinen]

Some years ago we had a fellow named Lepine shoot a number of young women at the Polytech in Montreal. My daughters response to the shooting was published in an Edmontonl newspaper:

"Had even one of the girls been properly trained and armed with a hangun, Lepine would have been stopped within seconds."

When we allow government/employers to disarm potential victims and/or those who are responsible for their protection (teachers of young children) we have failed in our civic duty.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

This scandal is similar to the Port-Arthur tradgedy where a man purchased an AR-15 and an SLR FAL, without a license and John Howard blames all gun owners.

I read that the man killed a gun collector with a legal collection and took those firearms.

 

[LAR-15]

Sterling,

Thanks for the reply.

Creeping Incrementalism,

There is still controversy to this day over how Bryant got his firearms.

 

[sterling180]

Yes, Yardley was attacked by an anti-gun mob

G36-UK

You are absolutely correct G36-UK, Micheal Yardley was attacked by an anti-gun mob consisting of members of Mothers against Guns and members of the infamous Gun Control Network. I don't have the relevant copy of Gun Mart magazine anymore-I threw it away ages ago-, in which he gave a detailed account of his ordeal, but I will tell you how he became involved with a confrontation, with the antis below. This incident occurred I think between 1999 and 2003, because the GCN 10 years ago was in its infant stages of development.

Mike was contacted by a member of Mothers against Guns, whose son was killed by gangsters armed with Ingram M-10 or M11 submachine-guns and possibly pistols as well. She wanted him to travel to this anti-gun conference in Nottingham, to talk some sense into members of the public-who would be attending this conference- on the basis he was an ex-British Army officer and Bonefide firearm and shotgun shooter;shooting journalist.

Micheal was astounded that a member of an anti-gun group had contacted him specifically and asked him to give a lecture to those people attending-and so he agreed and left his home in Essex and travelled north towards Nottingham- not knowing what would happen.

When he got there he was greeted by this woman and the two of them joined an anti-gun march, protesting against illegal weapons held in the hands of criminals.In the hall Yardley went onto the stage and stated that the handgun ban was a farce and further controls on firearms were unneccesary,etc.Unfortunately for him Gillian Marshall-Andrews-the chairwoman for the Gun Control Network-shouted to the proles in the crowd: "He's a gunman, he's a gunman" and soon Yardley found himself hanging onto the chair ug his heels in on the stage-floor, to prevent an angry mob-led by a heavy-set muscular man- from dragging him off stage and throwing him out of the hall.

In the midst of this moronic-nonsense, Yardley shouted at the top of his voice: I am an invited speaker, I am legally allowed to be here because I was invited here to speak".Some of the proles in the crowd said to Marshall-Andrews: "let him speak, let him speak", but the arrogant; ignorant bitch still with her fanatics screamed: "he's a gunman, he's a gunman, he has no right to be here, we didn't invite him here".soon the cops turned up and escorted Yardley and the Conservative MPs away from the hall, but this did not stop the antis hitting and shoving him with their anti-gun placards.

The Conservative MPs were outraged and left in disgust with Micheal and Micheal wrote letters ofcomplaint to Nottingham County Council and Nottingham Police, to show his contempt for the way that he was treated by the antis and for their incompetance in dealing with fanatical individuals from the GCN.Mike apologised to the woman who invited him and left Nottingham , to travel south-home to Essex.

 

[G36-UK]

And yet they can claim to be "The voice of reason"... my ar*e.

That's why I'm never listening to any of their members. I was thinking (if I wasn't on THR), about putting up posters made from Oleg's pics around where they are protesting in support of the IANSA.