Seeking advice on buying a 44 mag revolver

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Have ya ever looked at the Cimarron Bad Boy 44 magnum with the 8 inch octagon barrel? I have been trying and trying to get my hands on one for some time now. If you haven't seen one or heard about it I recommend taking a look. It has an 1860 army grip frame which is by far my favorite feal in a grip. The thing is just well.....Bad Ass looking. The price seems reasonable to me to (just over $700). Now if a guy could only get his mitts on one. Screenshot_20220216-190157(1).png
 
I don't shoot full house loads in my 629. That's what my Super Redhawk is for.
I like the looks of these distinctly different guns. The S&W finish is better IMHO.
 
Have ya ever looked at the Cimarron Bad Boy 44 magnum with the 8 inch octagon barrel? I have been trying and trying to get my hands on one for some time now. If you haven't seen one or heard about it I recommend taking a look. It has an 1860 army grip frame which is by far my favorite feal in a grip. The thing is just well.....Bad Ass looking. The price seems reasonable to me to (just over $700). Now if a guy could only get his mitts on one. View attachment 1060180

I have the Taylor Cattleman in 44 mag, 6" barrel feels and balances very nice - grip is great - shoot 260 gr LBT hand loads at approx 1080 fps, while not full power 44 mag, a highly effective and accurate load in this revolver. It was around $600. Consider this model?
 
I've found that the longer the barrel, the more ammunition sensitive they are. This is due to barrel rise on recoil and barrel time as well as other factors. I have a 10.5" Super Blackhawk that's pretty much a one load gun. Anything else requires another sight-in. OTOH I have a 2-7/8" barrelled Model 69 that seems happy with 44Spcl loads as well as light magnums. The short barrel doesn't rise enough to matter.
 
I've found that the longer the barrel, the more ammunition sensitive they are. This is due to barrel rise on recoil and barrel time as well as other factors. I have a 10.5" Super Blackhawk that's pretty much a one load gun. Anything else requires another sight-in. OTOH I have a 2-7/8" barrelled Model 69 that seems happy with 44Spcl loads as well as light magnums. The short barrel doesn't rise enough to matter.
Idk about this statement. The bullet has long left the barrel before recoil is transferred. Even a rifle with a 30 inch barrel has said goodbye to the bullet before recoil effects anything. If your statement were true then long guns would be utterly worthless. If what you said were true then how does the bullet leave a long barreled rifle before the recoil sends it to the sky? Because the bullet is long gone before recoil. In fact, you'll probably hit the target before you actually felt recoil. I say to the contrary, a longer barrel revolver will be inherently more accurate due to the longer barrel. Thats a fact
 
Were I to be starting today I would get the BFR Bisley in all my single action guns. I know they are a tad heavier but for my hand size that grip frame is awesome. With the revolver itself you can feed it anything within sane levels.
 
I appreciate all the very informative replies. I decided to pick up this 460. I really love the look of the Smith more than the Rugers, so I decided to move up to the X-frame. It’s heavy, but it’s also versatile.

Someone asked earlier why I want a big bore revolver if I don’t have a real use for one. The answer is “just because.”

Let us know what you think of that beast when you get it out.
 
Idk about this statement. The bullet has long left the barrel before recoil is transferred. Even a rifle with a 30 inch barrel has said goodbye to the bullet before recoil effects anything. If your statement were true then long guns would be utterly worthless. If what you said were true then how does the bullet leave a long barreled rifle before the recoil sends it to the sky? Because the bullet is long gone before recoil. In fact, you'll probably hit the target before you actually felt recoil. I say to the contrary, a longer barrel revolver will be inherently more accurate due to the longer barrel. Thats a fact

You may want to do some experimenting my friend....Barrel time is a key component of where a handgun bullet hits the target. Famed gunsmith John Linebaugh installs taller front sights on his ultra power sixguns because the heavy bullet recoil impulse will cause the gun to shoot high every time with a stock Ruger front sight even with the rear sight bottomed out. A 320 grain bullet at 1100 fps from a 7 1/2" Super blackhawk will shoot higher on the target than a 200 grain bullet at 1550...Conservation of momentium and time in the barrel dictates where the muzzle is when the bullet exits. I have experienced this many times..
 
You may want to do some experimenting my friend....Barrel time is a key component of where a handgun bullet hits the target. Famed gunsmith John Linebaugh installs taller front sights on his ultra power sixguns because the heavy bullet recoil impulse will cause the gun to shoot high every time with a stock Ruger front sight even with the rear sight bottomed out. A 320 grain bullet at 1100 fps from a 7 1/2" Super blackhawk will shoot higher on the target than a 200 grain bullet at 1550...Conservation of momentium and time in the barrel dictates where the muzzle is when the bullet exits. I have experienced this many times..
Exactly right. One can see this even with a 1911 45ACP. Hitting too high with 230gr? Try 200gr or 185gr and watch the POA move down on the target.
 
You may want to do some experimenting my friend....Barrel time is a key component of where a handgun bullet hits the target. Famed gunsmith John Linebaugh installs taller front sights on his ultra power sixguns because the heavy bullet recoil impulse will cause the gun to shoot high every time with a stock Ruger front sight even with the rear sight bottomed out. A 320 grain bullet at 1100 fps from a 7 1/2" Super blackhawk will shoot higher on the target than a 200 grain bullet at 1550...Conservation of momentium and time in the barrel dictates where the muzzle is when the bullet exits. I have experienced this many times..
If you put on a high speed camera the bullet has left the building before recoil affects the gun. So how does a rifle with a 30 inch barrel not shoot the sky???
 
You may want to do some experimenting my friend....Barrel time is a key component of where a handgun bullet hits the target. Famed gunsmith John Linebaugh installs taller front sights on his ultra power sixguns because the heavy bullet recoil impulse will cause the gun to shoot high every time with a stock Ruger front sight even with the rear sight bottomed out. A 320 grain bullet at 1100 fps from a 7 1/2" Super blackhawk will shoot higher on the target than a 200 grain bullet at 1550...Conservation of momentium and time in the barrel dictates where the muzzle is when the bullet exits. I have experienced this many times..
I still call BS. Explain to me then how this dont happen with a rifle? You avoided that question. Watch a high speed camera, the bullet is long gone before recoil. Saying a shorter barrel revolver is more accurate is an utter garbage of a statement. Sure funny to me how my 7 1/2 in 44 mag is ridiculously more accurate then a snub nose. But how could I even hit a target with 44 mag recoil outa a barrel that long? Again B.S!! If what you say we're true then a 30 inch barrel would be useless because according to your thinking the bullet should hit the sky. I mean the bullets in the barrel for so long that recoil is probably over by the time the bullets leaves (rediculous!). Would work the same way. So again I ask, how the BEEP does a rifle not shoot extremely high everytime? If a long barrel pistol will then a longer barrel should be worse. It's not because the bullet has long left the building. I challenge you to show me one high speed video of a gun recoiling before a bullet shows itself. YOU CANT!!!!!! Maybe can from a worthless 45 acp, that might be slow enough lol. But not even that garbage round would fail that bad.
 
You may want to do some experimenting my friend....Barrel time is a key component of where a handgun bullet hits the target. Famed gunsmith John Linebaugh installs taller front sights on his ultra power sixguns because the heavy bullet recoil impulse will cause the gun to shoot high every time with a stock Ruger front sight even with the rear sight bottomed out. A 320 grain bullet at 1100 fps from a 7 1/2" Super blackhawk will shoot higher on the target than a 200 grain bullet at 1550...Conservation of momentium and time in the barrel dictates where the muzzle is when the bullet exits. I have experienced this many times..
Just watched a dozen videos (high speed) of handguns being fired. Even with the semi auto the bullets has left the view of the camera (over a foot) before the slide even reacts. Every video I watched without exception shows ZERO recoil transferred until the bullet is long long long gone. So YEAH, B.S. Maybe if your loading extremely low pressure making like 400 fps....maybe then but still.
 
Wow Mr. Badwolf! I did not mean to get on your bad side! And I am sorry that I appeared to be dodging your response. I did NOT say that short barrels are more accurtate than long barrels on handguns..but I DID say that the law of conservation of momentum is valid and on clear display in most handguns. Any firearm starts moving the instant the bullet starts moving...it cannot be otherwise...In the case of a longgun, typical rifles weight at least twice as much a typical handgun AND the line of thrust is very close to the center of mass thus a rifle does not have the muzzle rise of a handgun. Therefore a rifle is less affected by the recoil vector. A handgun on the other hand has the line of thrust very much higher and thus the gun tries to rotate in the shooters hand. And being half the mass of the rifle the handgun recoil velocity is twice that of a riflle for the same momentum. If your hypothesis was correct in stating the bullet leaves the barrel well before the gun starts moving, then Newtons laws of physics would be null and void. Although I fully respect your opinion...I trust Sir Issac a little more..But don't take my word for it...I implore you to do experiments with your own handguns...
 
Richard Jay King is absolutely right.

My 44 Mag revolver hits POA/POI, however if you put a laser bore round into it the dot is much lower than where the bullet hits. The reason is because before the bullet uncorks, the barrel has already risen that distance from recoil. It's not a lot of rise, but it makes all the difference down range.

My rifles on the other hand are pushing straight back into the shoulder, in addition to just being much heavier. A laser bore sight in one of those is pretty much dead on with the sights.
 
Wow Mr. Badwolf! I did not mean to get on your bad side! And I am sorry that I appeared to be dodging your response. I did NOT say that short barrels are more accurtate than long barrels on handguns..but I DID say that the law of conservation of momentum is valid and on clear display in most handguns. Any firearm starts moving the instant the bullet starts moving...it cannot be otherwise...In the case of a longgun, typical rifles weight at least twice as much a typical handgun AND the line of thrust is very close to the center of mass thus a rifle does not have the muzzle rise of a handgun. Therefore a rifle is less affected by the recoil vector. A handgun on the other hand has the line of thrust very much higher and thus the gun tries to rotate in the shooters hand. And being half the mass of the rifle the handgun recoil velocity is twice that of a riflle for the same momentum. If your hypothesis was correct in stating the bullet leaves the barrel well before the gun starts moving, then Newtons laws of physics would be null and void. Although I fully respect your opinion...I trust Sir Issac a little more..But don't take my word for it...I implore you to do experiments with your own handguns...
Newtons law is not changed. The transferbof motion
Mr. Badwolf...are you still there?.
Dude, no newtons laws are broken . Look up a few videos for yourself then. The damn bullet is gone before transferred energy. GO WATCH. Say what youd like but the facts are facts. Your rifles must shoot the moon bro. Just watch high spees videos and see for yourself. I challenge you to show me a video of a bullet not leaving a gun until after the barrel rises. I can prove what I said true simply by you googling high speed videos of it in action. Go watch!
 
Rifle and pistol external ballistics are different; because rifles shoot further, the bullet will travel above the line of sight before dropping back below it.
This is exterior ballistics, another critter compared to interior ballistics, while the bullet is still inside the barrel.
Handguns are different. They lack a stock, and behave differently when they are fired.
Here's a test. Take (for the sake of argument, say a 6") revolver, and put a straight edge across the top of the front and rear sights, and look at the barrel. The barrel will be pointed slightly downward.... Try it yourself. If the gun barrel were not rising in recoil as the bullet exits, why wouldn't it hit below the intended target?
Or, as a PP suggested, put a boresight in a revolver barrel, and look where the laser hits, compared to where the sights look.
Finally, heavier bullets hit higher on the target, compared to lighter ones, assuming similar velocity.
Have had this same argument on several gun boards; try the above, and convince yourself. Whatever the high speed photos may show you, the handgun's barrel only has to rise slightly to have a big effect on where it hits.
Moon
 
Mr. Badwolf wrote: "Dude, no newtons laws are broken . Look up a few videos for yourself then. The damn bullet is gone before transferred energy. GO WATCH. Say what youd like but the facts are facts. Your rifles must shoot the moon bro. Just watch high spees videos and see for yourself. I challenge you to show me a video of a bullet not leaving a gun until after the barrel rises. I can prove what I said true simply by you googling high speed videos of it in action. Go watch!"

I have no idea what videos you watched but lets just think about this for a moment....if a gun doesn't start recoiling until AFTER the bullet leaves what makes it recoil at all? After the bullet leaves the barrel there is NO force on the gun from the bullet other than residual gas from the cartridge..Do you believe that the equal opposite force of the bullet is somehow "stored" somewhere and becomes effective later? I am not trying to shade you in any way...And I do not dispute what you are seeing with your own eyes...but don't be talking smack about my man Newton! LOL!

 
I definitely agree that the explosion going off makes the gun begin recoil prior to the bullet exiting. But if the muzzle rise is so significant as to need different sights wouldn't the firearm only be sighted in for a specific distance say 30 to 45 yards and then way high at 60 or 70. As always I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 
I definitely agree that the explosion going off makes the gun begin recoil prior to the bullet exiting. But if the muzzle rise is so significant as to need different sights wouldn't the firearm only be sighted in for a specific distance say 30 to 45 yards and then way high at 60 or 70. As always I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Due to the usual scope sight being 1.5" above the bore axis in most rifles....It is fully possible to sight in for a 25 yard zero and have the next zero point near 200 yards...so ANYTIME a firearm of any kind has its sight line above the axis of the bore this will happen....How far out the second zero is depends on the velocity of the bullet, sight axis above bore axis, ballistic cooficient and muzzle position at exit of bullet .So there is NO "truth in the middle" The only "truth" are the laws of physics. I sure did not mean to stir up a hornets nest here but false hypothesises serve no good purpose in our hobbby...I appologize to all on this forum if I have hurt any feeleings but physics is physics..There is NO shame in being ignorant of some or all laws of nature...but it is a real shame to stay ignorant when one can learn. I am sorry...I am an engineer so I can't help it...
 
Mr. King, you are venturing into exterior ballistics, which is a different critter. With rifles or pistols, the bullet will rise above the line of sight, and then drop below it. Where the two coincide will be the zero.
But handguns aren't normally fired that far, so it's perhaps a lesser issue.
The real problem, as you have correctly explained, is the position of the gun when the bullet exits the bore. And, as you correctly posited, the handgun is in the process of rolling up in recoil when the bullet exits the bore. Lighter bullets will get out sooner, and therefore hit lower, than heavier bullets that spend more time in the bore (all this presumes somewhat similar velocities).
Recoil operated semi autos (Browning tilting barrels) work because the departing bullet gives the slide and its parts a push with its recoil; the remaining energy ejects the spent cartridge, resets the hammer/striker, and chambers a new round.
And again, you are correct, there would be no reason for the gun to recoil if the bullet had already departed.
Handguns will also have a zero distance, depending on the location of the sights, the nature of the load, and the distance fired. If the shot is taken at longer distances, the 'exterior ballistics' thing matters, as it does in rifles.
But it is that 'gun rolling up in recoil' thing that also makes me wonder we ever hit anything with a handgun...besides the relatively light weight, single point of support, and short sight radius, how firmly we hold the handgun will also effect where it hits.

Moon
 
Mr. King, you are venturing into exterior ballistics, which is a different critter. With rifles or pistols, the bullet will rise above the line of sight, and then drop below it. Where the two coincide will be the zero.
But handguns aren't normally fired that far, so it's perhaps a lesser issue.
The real problem, as you have correctly explained, is the position of the gun when the bullet exits the bore. And, as you correctly posited, the handgun is in the process of rolling up in recoil when the bullet exits the bore. Lighter bullets will get out sooner, and therefore hit lower, than heavier bullets that spend more time in the bore (all this presumes somewhat similar velocities).
Recoil operated semi autos (Browning tilting barrels) work because the departing bullet gives the slide and its parts a push with its recoil; the remaining energy ejects the spent cartridge, resets the hammer/striker, and chambers a new round.
And again, you are correct, there would be no reason for the gun to recoil if the bullet had already departed.
Handguns will also have a zero distance, depending on the location of the sights, the nature of the load, and the distance fired. If the shot is taken at longer distances, the 'exterior ballistics' thing matters, as it does in rifles.
But it is that 'gun rolling up in recoil' thing that also makes me wonder we ever hit anything with a handgun...besides the relatively light weight, single point of support, and short sight radius, how firmly we hold the handgun will also effect where it hits.

Moon

My Dear Mr. Moon....Do you wear plaid socks with your shorts and use a pocket protector like I do? Bless you!:)
 
Well...I shouldn't do this...but if folks want pictures to demonstrate the laws of physics..check this one out...Notice the very last of the video at the highest frames per second...you can SEE the gun start moving before the bullet comes out.... locate your cursor rignt on the bottom of the barrel lug at the muzzle and wait and you will SEE a gap before the bullet leaves this short barrel..In a longer barrel this would likely be more pronounced....Ok..I am done with this...Free country..for now...believe what you want...Heck i still think the tooth fairy left me all that money back in the day! LOL!
 
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