Self-defense against strangulation

[GuyWithQuestions]

I saw some statistics that strangulation is one of the more common ways that people are murdered in the U.S., although behind guns and knives, I believe? I was wondering what are some good strategies and tactics to use if someone's strangling you, both for hands and if they're using objects or cords?

I was thinking about this because I was reading about a serial killer case where the guy would sneak into womens' homes at night and strangle them to death. I'm a guy, but I would assume that guys are killed that way too.

 

[biscuitninja]

The thumbs are the key. You want to break their hold, I am also a big fan of poking people's eyes. This will get them off of you... BUT you only have one chance though.
good luck
-bix

 

[Librarian]

In 2006, out of 14,990 murders known to FBI, 135 were from strangulation. Compare that to ~10,000 with firearms, ~1,800 with knives.

It isn't unreasonable to think about that, but the likelihood is quite small.

That said, there are roughly four 'conditions':

1. Standing, attacked from the front
2. Standing, attacked from the back
3. Not standing, attacked from the front
4. Not standing, attacked from the back

If someone gets you in condition 2 with a cord, you have almost no time. It's not impossible to defend, but very, very unlikely.

For the others, visit a judo/jujitsu/aikido school - those are more or less standard problems with solution techniques that require demonstration rather than description.

 

[Unisaw]

LawDog had a piece on his blog a while ago about how to defend against a front chokehold. Here's the link:

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2008/01/professor-lawdogs-school-of-survival.html

 

[OAKTOWN]

Though not common, getting choked, especially by someone who knows what they are doing, is no joke. I have even spoken to an ex-con that said he prefered choking people to closed fist strikes, as it didn't look so bad if he wound up in court

My choke defense experience is all from Krav Maga. There different techniques to defeat the various bare handed chokes, but they all rely using the upper body's large muscle groups to defeat the choke. The underlying principle being; keep air and blood flowing to your brain and set up for a counter attack.

The scary one is the rear naked choke (rnc). Once this choke is properly set, you are in deep deep trouble.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Someone once told me to use pepper spray if you're being strangled from behind. Although, I could see how this could go quite wrong. If you get any directly on your face also, even if you close your eyes it won't matter, then you'd be fighting two assailants! I guess you'd have to pull away from the strangulation quite quickly, if the feeling of sticking one's head in a bucket of battery acid from the pepper spray gets the rear assailant to loosen up for a second.

Would trying to shoot the rear assailant with your CCW work very easily, or are you too close to do anything good? I guess also since most murder victims aren't murdered by strangers but by family members and mostly acquaintances, then that could look bad in court if the prosecuting attorney makes the claim that they were just playfully fighting with you and then you over reacted and seriously injured/killed them (I could see that if they were doing it bare handed, but maybe a little more difficult if they were using a cord).

 

[Deanimator]

I am also a big fan of poking people's eyes.

+10,000

That's something you can't build up, no matter how much time you spend in the prison weight room...

 

[CWL]

Unfortunately, there are so many different types of chokes that there cannot be a single set of defensive strategies.

I learned 15 different chokes while training in Judo, Hapkido & Jui Jitsu. They are very affective if applied correctly and quickly. If caught in a choke, you really only have seconds to counter before blackout can occur.

When applied correctly, they cause instant pain and will completely choke off all airflow. Methods of stopping airflow include arms/forearm bone, ropes/belts/instruments and their own clothing. I've never studied using hands because that is the weakest method/can be countered and does not allow for instant air blockage unless you are much stronger than the other person. Chokes are best applied if the victim is off their feet so they cannot be used as leverage or counters.

Because there are so many kinds, you do need to learn multiple defenses against them. First move when attack is coming is to hunch down, bring chin down to protect throat, bring shoulders up as well so BG cannot get a clean attack. If you are attacked from the front, don't forget to use headbutts, grab their testicles and squeeze, if you have a pen or thumbs go for the eyes, knife will do wonders to cut & sever, pointy thing into armpit will also cause pain. Dont forget to bite if able to.

If attacked from behind, rear headbutts if possible, grab for testicles, punch pointy things into arms, thigh of attacker. Knife will help here. -Also try to hunch so that your hips are lower than attacker so he can't get leverage on you. If you have any base martial arts/wrestling skills, try to do a hip throw or leg grab.

 

[Librarian]

... since most murder victims aren't murdered by strangers but by family members and mostly acquaintances ...

Not true, generally - again, FBI 2006 murders, of 14,990, 1,905 assailants were known to be strangers, and 6,750 are classified as 'unknown' - 57%, leaving 43% for somehow known to or by the victim.

Now, 'unknown' doesn't rule out relatives or acquaintances, but since those are the easier suspects to investigate, strangers look like better candidates.

 

[CWL]

Oops! Forgot to mention the primary thing: Situational Awareness!

If you are aware enough to know the attack is coming, then you can throw-up hands to block. If you know it is coming, then your defenses multiply because you now know where the BG's hands are...

 

[theken206]

"The scary one is the rear naked choke (rnc). Once this choke is properly set, you are in deep deep trouble."

Yup, but remeber, keep that chin tucked TIGHT, keep two on one{always have two hands on one of the attackers hands}, reach up and pull the top hand down, watch for the counter into a "gable" choke, turn twoards the arm thats choking you.

as to the first question, like the man said, many diffrent chokes and strangles{the terms being used seperate to differentiate between blood and air "chokes"}, from many diffrent styles, from simple "school yard head locks" to the ol "rape choke"{scuse the term} to anacondas and brabo chokes, the darce, a bunch of diffrent collar chokes ect ect. Many can be countered and leave the fight in your favor as well.

most strangles are pretty simple and easy to escape, but are hard to practice as they are more painfull and much more dangerous than blood chokes. but they take alot of pressure, and much longer to take effect that a proper blood choke.

Unless your attacker is skilled most chokes with some basic training, and lots of practice, a strong will, they are easily defendable as well. If your attacker is skilled, well then its another ball game. Your level of skill and overall fighting ability will come far more into play if so.

Being choked with some sort of object, especially unawares........... Doesnt sound like fun. My advice would depend on skill level and physical prowess.
A 120 pound untrained women I would suggest going to a variable, eyes, ears, throat, groin. Hurting the other person as quick as possible,and giving yourself some ground to fight back, grab a weapon, scream for help, anything you can do.

A trained guy with some body strength I would more suggest trying to take away the leverege as oposed to trying to force the person to let go of the object via pain or the like.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Sorry, I took that statistic from that fbi.gov violent crime section and left out the part about of those who are "known". Without me accidentally misquoting it, it says:

"In incidents of murder where the relationships of murder victims and offenders were known, 21.6 percent of victims were slain by family members, 23.1 percent were murdered by strangers, and 55.3 percent were killed by someone with whom they were acquainted (neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.)."
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/homicide.html

Doesn't "Expanded Homicide Data Table 9" say at the bottom "1 Relationship is that of victim to offender." So the 1,905 would be 1,905 victims were strangers to the assailant, 6,750 of the victims were unknown as to what their relationship with the assailant was? Like for husband it says 123, while for wife it says 567 (hmmm, that's making me nervous, what if I get married and my wife kills me j/k). But then the outcome would usually be the same, if the victim was a stranger to the assailant, the assailant was probably a stranger to the victim, and so forth. And stranger murders are probably more difficult to solve and prosecute.

So from how this sounds, maybe this is more reason to take responsibility for your own protection. If it's unknown what many of these victims were to their assailant, then there's probably a huge chunk of murder mysteries that are never solved and they may never solve your murder if you don't take self-defense seriously

Do they have some statistics on that? Out of all reported murders, what percentage of that do they charge someone with murder and take it to trial, and what percentage someone is actually convicted?

 

[Lucky]

physical defence - like the guys said above tuck chin in. Also turn head to the side, that's important too.

But if they have both hands on your neck you should do something with your hands. Eyes throat groin don't take much to hurt. Is worst case is from behind, and then an edged weapon couldn't help but loosen the assailant's hold. Not many places in the body a small knife can be inserted and twisted without significant effect, imo. No-where I can think of that it wouldn't discourage me.

Hell, if they use a cord or wire why not try cutting it with the knife? There's a lot of muscle along behind the ear, cutting into a thin rope there wouldn't mess you up to badly when the knife went through.

 

[Librarian]

f it's unknown what many of these victims were to their assailant, then there's probably a huge chunk of murder mysteries that are never solved and they may never solve your murder if you don't take self-defense seriously

Do they have some statistics on that? Out of all reported murders, what percentage of that do they charge someone with murder and take it to trial, and what percentage someone is actually convicted?

Sure: here. In the case of murder, it's 60.7% for 2006.

Of the violent crimes, law enforcement agencies nationwide cleared 60.7 percent of murder offenses, 40.9 percent of forcible rapes, 25.2 percent of robberies, and 54.0 percent of aggravated assaults.

That varies a little over time, since some murders don't produce arrests inside the same yearly reporting period as the murder itself.

The clearance rate has been declining: it was 79% in 1976.

This link to the Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics .pdf shows 12,360 arrested for murder in 2004, 8,300 convicted, about 67%. Might be multiple arrests for one murder; that isn't broken out.

67% of 60.7% is something like 40% convictions for murders committed in any one year.

 

[Lucky]

Librarian I hope you're not suggesting more officers are needed to catch and bring to justice murderers. We all know those men and women are much more needed catching and bringing to justice people smoking drugs and driving over the speed limit. Where are your priorities?

 

[Librarian]

We all know those men and women are much more needed catching and bringing to justice people smoking drugs and driving over the speed limit.

Well, of course!

In proof, at that same Sourcebook .pdf, they show 282,590 arrests and 201,760 convictions for drug trafficking.

I think that in general, politicians want results they can put up on web sites and on campaign literature. Quantity seems to have a better impression on the voters. Politicians direct the general level of activities of police agencies, ordinarily through political appointees or elected administrators who also want numbers for publicity.

"Make me look good" isn't the best strategy to improve public safety.

 

[usmccpl]

Best way is to grab the arm on the ulnar nerve apply pressure pull it away from your neck and tuck your chin then attack the agressor.

 

[R127]

The eye poke already mentioned is good. If somebody's got you with their arm on your neck then turn your chin into the elbow and hold it down, usually you can slip out of their grasp completely this way. If you're being choked with hands from the front put your hands together as if in prayer and stick them up between the choker's arms, all the way up, then bring your arms down to your side. They'd have to have the strength of a grizzly to keep hold of you. If you're being choked from behind never forget the value or repeatedly and forcefully smashing their face with the hard, bony back of your head. Sometimes you can rip free of a hold from behind by bending over and sticking your big booty out. Kind of reminds me of the BOHICA thing.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

If they're strangling you, how much time do you have left

before you go unconscious or at least can't fight anymore? If you hold your breath under water, I know that you can hold it for a few minutes. If your heart is completely destroyed, you have about 10-20 seconds until you loose consciousness. Is that because if there's oxygen in your blood you can sustain it for a few minutes but if the blood's cut off it's less than 20 seconds? When people strangle you, does that cut the breathing off more or the blood to your brain, or does it depend? How much time do you usually have of consciousness if they're not playing around but have the intent to kill you?

 

[sacp81170a]

When applied correctly, they cause instant pain and will completely choke off all airflow. Methods of stopping airflow include arms/forearm bone, ropes/belts/instruments and their own clothing.

When applied correctly, a carotid choke (as taught in Judo and Jujitsu) will cause unconsciousness in about 5-10 seconds. Ask me how I know.

If you're attacked from the rear with a cord or other flexible instrument, you'll be dead almost before you know it if the person has been properly trained.

If you hold your breath under water, I know that you can hold it for a few minutes. If your heart is completely destroyed, you have about 10-20 seconds until you loose consciousness. Is that because if there's oxygen in your blood you can sustain it for a few minutes but if the blood's cut off it's less than 20 seconds? When people strangle you, does that cut the breathing off more or the blood to your brain, or does it depend? How much time do you usually have of consciousness if they're not playing around but have the intent to kill you?

For carotid chokes, especially ones using the victim's clothing for leverage, see above. My Judo instructor, Sensei Fred Lemond, could apply a choke that would have you blacked out in 4-5 seconds. He was extremely careful, since we almost didn't have time to tap out. By all means, do not practice chokes and defenses against them without proper instruction and medical help standing by. Even seemingly light pressure can damage your carotid arteries when proper torque and leverage is applied, resulting in a life-threatening emergency. The best defense is, of course, being aware and reacting properly to a choke attempt. The first thing is to tuck your chin tight to your chest to prevent access to your throat. After that, a number of different techniques can be applied, but the basic rule is this: Any determined attack to the throat/front of the neck area is deadly force. Adjust your response accordingly.

I am also a big fan of poking people's eyes.

And ripping at their nose, and tearing at their lips. Hey, it works on sharks. Grab a handful of face with all your strength and twist...

 

[El Tejon]

Why not enroll in your nearest Judo/BJJ/JMA/CMA/inter aliaschool? Enrolling in a martial arts school takes time but it is a good investment for self-defense and physical fitness. BJJ has an excellent reputation from their level of committment to training and culture of continual practice at speed.

Lots of counter qin na techniques (i.e., nothing wrong with eye gouges if they work, but don't count on them for numerous reasons). For me from my CMA (praying mantis) training, I usually fall into different locks/counters depending on the attack (front, rear, side, what have you).

IME, it is important to train to the level that you do not have to think about it, you merely react, as speed is of the essence in qin na/counter-qin na. That level of training demands continual training.

 

[DFW1911]

As others have said, the best way to learn how to deal with chokes and strangles is practicing, which really is not too much fun

There are so many different chokes and strangles that you'll need a number of defenses to counter them.

The recommendation on Aiki/Judo/Ju Jitsu is great. When I practiced we used to do "choke proofing" drills to learn how to defend, break, and counter.

Two final thoughts: first, chokes and strangles hurt; I throw that in because I believe people underestimate the physical pain the techniques cause.

Secondly, when someone sinks a good choke in you have seconds to respond - literally. There won't be any long, drawn-out movie-like struggle: a good choke takes people out very quickly.

Practice, practice and practice some more. The skill is invaluable.

Have fun,
DFW1911

 

[TAB]

1st target, is thier groin. Grab, crush, twist and pull down. Trama like that to the groin( of a male) will shut off thier brain for a short peroid of time( 5-10 seconds) Which is more then enough time to get the fook out of there.

 

[easyg]

Pull out your knife and start cutting and stabbing.

And if you don't carry a knife....stop reading this right now and go and get a good knife.
I recommend Spyderco, Benchmade, or Kershaw.

 

[TexasChick]

Hi, I'm new (lurking). Come here to learn. Even a newbie like me can remember..."Grab, twist, pull groin"...for self-defense when possible.

Thanks for the great tips TAB! T Chick