Semi Auto Carbine ATF Approval

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War Squirrel

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Is it legal to build a semi-auto 9mm carbine of my own design that fires from the closed bolt, and can't accept full auto parts from any other gun? Do I need ATF approval for the design before I build it?

Here's an overview, haven't gotten around to dimensions yet.

smg.jpg
 
It's perfectly legal for you to build a firearm of your own design. The gun you build doesn't even need a serial number or any kind of markings of who made it. However if you do build your own firearm it must remain in your custody, so you can't sell it or transfer it to anyone, that's when you need a manufacturers license.
 
I am not sure if a home built would be required to be Sec. 922R compliant. Thats a good one to ask the ATF Technical branch. Also, be sure your dimensions keep you clear from creating a Short Barreled Rifle.

Don
 
He can sell it if he so chooses, but if he manufactured it in order to sell it for a profit, then he needs an FFL. At least that's my understanding.
 
"He can sell it if he so chooses, but if he [strike]manufactured[/strike] built it in order to sell it [strike]for a profit,[/strike] then he needs an FFL."
 
He can sell it if he so chooses, but if he manufactured it in order to sell it for a profit, then he needs an FFL. At least that's my understanding.
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That's my understanding, too. It can't be built with the intent to sell it without an FFL, but he can sell it later. You just have to add a serial number before it leaves your hands.

As far as the ATF is concerned, as long as you follow every other law concerning a rifle, you're good to go. 16" barrel, 26" total length, one shot per trigger pull, closed bolt, and so on.

Check your state laws, though. YMMV on those.
 
You just have to add a serial number before it leaves your hands.
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Could you cite a law or regulation stating that? I don't believe inscribing a serial number is required at all for a personally built title II firearm, even if it is sold or otherwise exchanges hands.
 
Originally Posted by Quiet
ATF Ruling 82-2 = semi-auto open bolt firearms made after 01-1982 are considered MGs.

I thought that that ruling was specific to the Tec-9?
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The Tec 9 may be cited specifically, but the ruling applies to all open bolt semi-auto firearms. No new ones can be manufactured as the ATF considers them either MG's or too "readily convertible" to MG's.
 
ATF Ruling 82-2 was specifically about the Interdynamics KG-9 (what the TEC-9/DC-9/AB-10/AP-9 was based off of).
But, the ruling was really about how semi-auto open bolt firearms are readily convertable to full-auto and therefore considered to be MGs.

ATF Ruling 82-8 (semi-auto open-bolt "MAC" pistols & rifles) and ATF Ruling 83-5 (semi-auto open-bolt "STEN" rifle) also held the same decision that semi-auto open-bolt firearms are to be considered MGs.
 
General Geoff said:
Could you cite a law or regulation stating that? I don't believe inscribing a serial number is required at all for a personally built title II firearm, even if it is sold or otherwise exchanges hands.
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I believe the ATF "recommends" serial number and maker information be inscribed on a home-build should it subsequently be sold. I don't believe it is required, but a suggestion from ATF really ought to be followed. A quick letter to the Technical Branch would be a good idea if you have questions.

Also, if you sell it later and it is required to pass through a FFL for an out-of-state sale, no serial and manufactuer info could cause some issues.
 
You can make your own design for a semi-auto firearm. You could avoid some potential (though pretty unlikely) trouble by submitting your designs to the ATF Tech Branch for a ruling letter before you build.

You may sell a gun you made yourself. The ATF "recommends" that you put a serial number on it, but the law only requires such on NFA regitered home builds (like SBR/SBSs).
 
you must put a mfg name city state and serial number on all firearms made.
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Nope. That's only for NFA-registered weapons, as is the serial number requirement. You don't have to mark a home-made gun at all.
 
from another forum

From ATF: "Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future."
 
dprice, I was just about to quote that. It is actually on the ATF's FAQ page.

Note the words "suggest" and "should."

The section of the code they point you to referrs to marking NFA-regulated (Title II) firearms, NOT "Title I" guns like semi-auto rifles. The law does not require this -- though they are free to "suggest" that you "should" do whatever they want.
 
Sam1911 said:
dprice, I was just about to quote that. It is actually on the ATF's FAQ page.

Note the words "suggest" and "should."

The section of the code they point you to referrs to marking NFA-regulated (Title II) firearms, NOT "Title I" guns like semi-auto rifles. The law does not require this -- though they are free to "suggest" that you "should" do whatever they want.
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The language used by ATF is rather ambigious on this one. It leaves the door open for the home builder to not mark their rifle, but still allows the ATF to state later, "why didn't you follow our suggestion on marking your rifle".

If you get to the point that you want to sell your home-build rifle, ask the transfer dealer if they will accept an unmarked home-built for transfer and then take appropriate steps as needed.

Don
 
I like your design. If it works, patent it. If you can sell it for under $400, you'll sell a ton of those.
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Thanks! With good tooling and bulk order barrels (the most expensive part), it'd be able to be made for probably around $100 per gun. It's gonna be about $200 for me to make, but it's gonna be one heck of a project.

The language used by ATF is rather ambigious on this one. It leaves the door open for the home builder to not mark their rifle, but still allows the ATF to state later, "why didn't you follow our suggestion on marking your rifle".
Click to expand...

I'll give it serial no. 00001 just for kicks then! :D

Thanks for all the info, guys. There's a wealth of knowledge here.
 
I believe the ATF "recommends" serial number and maker information be inscribed on a home-build should it subsequently be sold. I don't believe it is required, but a suggestion from ATF really ought to be followed. A quick letter to the Technical Branch would be a good idea if you have questions.
Click to expand...

it is required when you make an sbr/silencer on a form 1
 
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