Semi-auto vs Pump: Home Defense.

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Pump. Recoil is never a real big concern in 12ga unless you are shooting some heavy game or magnum loads in my experience. My wife has terrible arthritis in her hands and she can still manage stringing 4 or 5 boxes of 00 buck together at the range. And if for some reason a 20ga pump shotgun is not too difficult to find and feed ammo.

As far as racking the pump to scare someone away, I always advised against it in my classes. Just because it worked for Billy Ray or Bubba does not mean it will work 100% of the time. There is absolutely no way of knowing if you are racking that forearm against a drunk kid, a scared thug just looking for a quick snatch and grab to get in a gang, or a dedicated team of 5 criminals experienced in home invasion. I always store my HD shotgun fully loaded, safety on. Above shoulder level for the moment since I have a toddler.

Carrying with the chamber empty is a tactical decision and with every decision there are consequences.
 
herrwalther said:
Pump. Recoil is never a real big concern in 12ga unless you are shooting some heavy game or magnum loads in my experience. My wife has terrible arthritis in her hands and she can still manage stringing 4 or 5 boxes of 00 buck together at the range. And if for some reason a 20ga pump shotgun is not too difficult to find and feed ammo.

As far as racking the pump to scare someone away, I always advised against it in my classes. Just because it worked for Billy Ray or Bubba does not mean it will work 100% of the time. There is absolutely no way of knowing if you are racking that forearm against a drunk kid, a scared thug just looking for a quick snatch and grab to get in a gang, or a dedicated team of 5 criminals experienced in home invasion. I always store my HD shotgun fully loaded, safety on. Above shoulder level for the moment since I have a toddler.

Carrying with the chamber empty is a tactical decision and with every decision there are consequences.
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Given availability of 12ga managed recoil loads (reduced velocity tactical loads) in both slug and BK shot 20 ga HD shotgun makes no sense to me. Naturally carrying with the chamber empty is not very smart.
The perfect weapon would be Holland & Holland 12br 'Paradox Gun'. There are number of reasons for that including: excellent handling, fit/finish, tang safety, double triggers, iron sights, intercepting safety sear,.... While dropping one would amount to sacrilege if said would happen and the weapon was loaded the intercepting safety sear would prevent discharge. What was it that our smooth talking but not particularly bright VP said two shots should be plenty?
 
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Take a shotgun course with a pump and a semi.. Some things are easier with the pump, some things are easier with the semi. Reliability is a toss-up, I prefer the pump because I've trained with one and used one for years. And that is the key no matter what you pick.

That being said... I'll take a quality AR over any shotgun if the choice is there.
 
I have never short-stroked a pump when rising up to fire at a flight of ducks or geese. I never forget the safety. But, I bird hunt and as a result, pumping the shotgun is the natural response to pulling the trigger. I have dropped the hammer on an empty chamber after firing three shots, but never have I short-stroked or even forgot to pump in the first place. As a result, either shotgun will be effective.
 
I prefer a pump; very reliable, easy to operate, handles any shell that it's designed to use. Also still relatively inexpensive compared to a semi-auto.
 
I own or have owned and used multiple examples of every type of firearm. The only type I have had that never malfunctioned is the pump shotgun. People make claims about the utter reliability of revolvers, AK47s, etc., but in my experience, if you want it to go bang every time you better get a Mossberg 500.
 
Not much to add, other than which do you prefer? What feels better to you when you handle it?
The only repeating shotgun I have is a 1960 870 .20 gauge so I would go with a older 870 if I bought a home defense shotgun.
I like how the 870's feel and I know where all the controls are.
Would also add once you find which buckshot your gun likes the best, buy that in bulk and practice with it as often as you can...
Andy
 
Whichever weapon you shoot the best would be my first choice.... For me a Remington 870 would always be my first choice since I carried, trained, and pretty much lived with it on the street for a career.

I love the various accounts about the sound effects that folks mention about a pump shotgun (I also like movies... but try to remember that they're entertainment and have little relation to reality). What I did learn, and came to expect, over the years is that more than a few folks I pointed a handgun at completely disregarded it on the street. No one I ever pointed a shotgun at ever disregarded it -they might have been in full flight and didn't see the weapon - but face to face, a shotgun in competent hands is a fight ender -whether you have to fire or not...

And for Plinkin... I was a fisherman (and walked right off a charter boat into a police academy at the end of 1973....). When I was lucky enough to retire from police work - I went right back to fishing as a full time guide (in my 20th year now).
 
My pump used to be my go to for HD.
Now it is my AR with 50gr varmint loads.

If I went back to a 12g it would be a semi.
 
Given availability of 12ga managed recoil loads (reduced velocity tactical loads) in both slug and BK shot 20 ga HD shotgun makes no sense to me. Naturally carrying with the chamber empty is not very smart.
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You're overlooking the fact that a 20 ga is lighter, and in a Youth Model will fit many people who don't like the fit of a 12 or even a full sized 20

It's not only about "recoil"
 
In a different world, I'd prefer a pump. Less chance for a malfunction. Here in New Jerky where they WILL show your gun after when you WILL be indicted for defending your life, I have my O/U in the closet. Realistically, you'll only get off one or two rounds and an O/U looks innocuous enough to possibly keep you out of prison for defending your life.
 
I will have my gun cruiser ready, but in the meantime mine is ready ready. Fully locked and loaded
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And since shotguns are not really drop-safety proof, if it gets knocked or dropped in the dark, it can go bang - your choice to do as you please.

I have never short-stroked a pump when rising up to fire at a flight of ducks or geese. I never forget the safety
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Doing something fun during the day where you can see your targets coming is one thing. Fumbling in the dark as intruders are coming towards you in your house? TOTALLY different scenario.

You're overlooking the fact that a 20 ga is lighter,
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And the recoil can be more brutal - which in a home invasion scenario can make a serious difference.
 
"Doing something fun during the day where you can see your targets coming is one thing. Fumbling in the dark as intruders are coming towards you in your house? TOTALLY different scenario."

Yeah, different. Not totally different, cause you jump up, adrenaline coursing, you have just a moment, bam bam bam and it's over. Never felt the recoil. Never heard the noise. Got 3 empties floating in the blind. Two ducks down in the water.

I have never short-stroked. Ever. Muscle memory is frankly what it is. Adrenaline is the same at night or against ducks or against rabbits or against armadillos or a rabid racoon on the attack.

Don't worry, though. That pump will do the job just fine - some of us just might be more capable I guess.
 
I to prefer the pump and I believe that what ever one you chose practice and
more practice is the key element
 
And the recoil can be more brutal - which in a home invasion scenario can make a serious difference.
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When my daughter was 7 years old she was shooting a single shot 20 ga

"Brutal" isn't realistic
 
MCgunner said:
Jeez, guys, shotguns ain't for sissies. They kick, so man up and handle it. :D
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Or go with a 20 ga. If you can't hit and incapacitate, at normal in house ranges, a human target with a 20, you won't do it with a 12.
 
^agree.

For home defense I don't think the 12 vs. 20 argument amounts to much. For slug use I'm sure it doesn't. You will need some range to see the advantage of 12 with buckshot. By definition, unlikely in home defense.

IMHO 20 gauge is sufficient for HD. .410 isn't.
 
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PabloJ said:
Given availability of 12ga managed recoil loads (reduced velocity tactical loads) in both slug and BK shot
Click to expand...

Depends on where you are. The last few times I went to the local gun store 12ga reduced loads were non existant. The 20ga in multiple loadings were plentiful.
 
I have hunted with pump shotguns for 50+ years, and have short stroked my share of Grouse, in the field, broad daylight.
Waking up at 02:30 with somebody kicking in my back door I need every edge I can get. Semi auto first choice, if all you have is a pump, practice LOTS. With any SD firearm validate your SD ammo choice, 100 rounds with no jams, I would feel confident.
 
I have both.

In the bedroom on the ground floor, I keep a Maverick 88 stocked with 5 rounds of 00 buck, and 5 slugs in a butt cuff. I resides there along with an AR and a 9mm pistol.

Upstairs, I keep a Remington model 48, with mag tube extension, loaded with 7 rounds of 00 buck. It resides next to a loaded SKS, 9 rounds of hollow point 7.62x39 140 gr.

Neither cost much. Both are reliable, and neither will probably ever need to be used. I like shotguns as HD firearms due to the simple manual of arms. Just about anyone can use one, recoil and weight aside.
 
Been shooting pump shotguns for 25 years and have taken many defensive shotgun courses over the years. I belong to a weekly trap league so I can practice running my pump. I will stick to it. The one handed operation of a semi is potentially compelling reason. The only semi I have personally seen that I consider reliable for self defense is the Benelli M4. It doesn't mean they don't exist though.
 
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