Marshall
Member
Does UPS, Fed Ex, etc. inspect boxes now days for their contents? If I ship a gun do they know it's a gun by any other means than me stating so? I'm wondering because of the possibility of theft.
Shipping guns
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
- Status
Well, I know the website says you MUST tell them its a firearm. I think I read somewhere that handguns stay with the driver or pilot, I would like to think they pay extra attention to firearms. I guess if you didn't tell them they were firearms, and they got lost or stolen, they might not insure them. But as shippers, they have the right to know what they are transporting.
StormWarning
Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
- 8
The fedex people have todl me it is against the law to lie about a firearm. But, I don't necessarily believe that. I don't think it is a federal law that the handguns must be shipped next day. I think that is corporate policy. Although, they claims it is a law.
If it is a law, it passed AFTER they instituted their own next day policies at UPS and Fed Ex. I remember when UPS first started requiring that handguns be shipped next day. It had been reported that this began because of employee theft of the packages.
If it is a law, it passed AFTER they instituted their own next day policies at UPS and Fed Ex. I remember when UPS first started requiring that handguns be shipped next day. It had been reported that this began because of employee theft of the packages.
Marshall
Member
So if you don't tell them, they have no way of knowing? Is that true?
I didn't know you had to tell them, out of all the guns I have, I have actually never had to ship one so I don't know the rules. I just thought you packaged them up and shipped them? I could just see an employee somewhere getting itchy with the fingers for an nice expensive gun. I wouldn't lie though, no sense in that.
I didn't know you had to tell them, out of all the guns I have, I have actually never had to ship one so I don't know the rules. I just thought you packaged them up and shipped them? I could just see an employee somewhere getting itchy with the fingers for an nice expensive gun. I wouldn't lie though, no sense in that.
StormWarning
Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
- 8
Well, if you don't tell them, you are out of luck on an insurance claim.
Who knows if they can tell, really. With all of the terrorism stuff, they are checking things more carefully.
Who knows if they can tell, really. With all of the terrorism stuff, they are checking things more carefully.
Marshall
Member
SIOP,
Being the north end of a southbound horse obviously comes easy for you. Not all of us think in the gutters as you must do. C'mon take the high road, it may not be easy for you at first but give it a shot, it'll look much better on you.
Being the north end of a southbound horse obviously comes easy for you. Not all of us think in the gutters as you must do. C'mon take the high road, it may not be easy for you at first but give it a shot, it'll look much better on you.
atblis
Member
Ship it ground
It's mostly corporate policy and not law. You are obligated to ship the firearm to an FFL if crossing state lines (that's about it).
Just take it apart before you box it. If you have to make a claim, tell them it is a bunch of gun parts (that happen to be enough to assemble an entire gun).
It's mostly corporate policy and not law. You are obligated to ship the firearm to an FFL if crossing state lines (that's about it).
Just take it apart before you box it. If you have to make a claim, tell them it is a bunch of gun parts (that happen to be enough to assemble an entire gun).
Well, I'm not the one who's obviously planning to lie to the shipping clerks, now am I? The apparent gist of all your posts is that you know that the companies involved require that you notify them you are shipping a gun, but you want to get around the rules to save a few bucks.
This subject surfaces about once a week on various boards, and it never ceases to amaze me that people will risk losing firearms worth several hundred dollars over a few bucks in shipping costs, because the shippers aren't under any obligation to pay a claim if you made a shipment under fradulent pretenses. This is akin to the guys who think nothing of dropping 20-30 grand on a motorcycle and then use the J.C. Whitney toilet paper filters to save a couple of dollars.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
That's precisely what I'm afraid of every time I ship a gun.
The_Doc
Member
Going back to the first question, the UPS hub near me has 100% package inspections - you're supposed to bring in your shipments unsealed for them to inspect your packaging. So, it's kinda impossible to not tell them you're shipping a firearm....
And there is something in the ATF regs that says you must declare firearms shipments to the carrier. However, some say the way the reg is written only shipments going to non-licensees must be declared:
§ 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any
common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or
foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written
notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported
or shipped.
And there is something in the ATF regs that says you must declare firearms shipments to the carrier. However, some say the way the reg is written only shipments going to non-licensees must be declared:
§ 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any
common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or
foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written
notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported
or shipped.
Marshall
Member
Thank you.
I'll just find out what's actually required and do whatever that is. Insurance is nice but it can't replace certain guns. I was just concerned of the shipping company marking it with a "gun" sticker, alerting people to a gun being inside or something to that effect. I guess it shouldn't be that big of a concern to me, I don't see replies of people saying they got there gun ripped off and to not ship them if you don't have to do so.
I appreciate most of the replies.
I'll just find out what's actually required and do whatever that is. Insurance is nice but it can't replace certain guns. I was just concerned of the shipping company marking it with a "gun" sticker, alerting people to a gun being inside or something to that effect. I guess it shouldn't be that big of a concern to me, I don't see replies of people saying they got there gun ripped off and to not ship them if you don't have to do so.
I appreciate most of the replies.
Marshall
Member
Doc, I just read your reply after I posted mine. That clears it up, thank you!
The_Doc
Member
And a follow-up to your reply...
The shipper can't put anything on the package that would identify it as a firearm:
No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label,
tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or
other container contains a firearm.
This (and my previous cite) comes from sec. 178.31 of the Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide at http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm .
The shipper can't put anything on the package that would identify it as a firearm:
No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label,
tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or
other container contains a firearm.
This (and my previous cite) comes from sec. 178.31 of the Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide at http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm .
jefnvk
Member
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8
Straight from those who could make your life misreable if you choose not to listen to them.
heypete
Member
The same UPS guys delivers all the guns to one of the local FFLs. I was in the shop one day when the UPS guy came in with a long box (from "Remington Arms Company" to "[deleted] Shooters Supply"). He said, "Hey, Frank...this box seems mighty light. What's the deal?"
Lo! And behold! There was a hole in the bottom of the box that had been taped over. Frank (the shopkeeper) immediately called the police and ATF, as he's required by law to do. Within 5 minutes, the local cops were there. 20 minutes later the ATF had an agent there. 30 minutes after that, the ATF were tearing apart the UPS sort facility.
They found it in some sort-guy's locker at the facility. The knucklehead must have forgot they get metal-detected going into and out of the facility.
Dunno what happened to the sort-guy, but Frank got the gun back without a problem. Good to see the ATF actually doing something GOOD every once in a while...
Lo! And behold! There was a hole in the bottom of the box that had been taped over. Frank (the shopkeeper) immediately called the police and ATF, as he's required by law to do. Within 5 minutes, the local cops were there. 20 minutes later the ATF had an agent there. 30 minutes after that, the ATF were tearing apart the UPS sort facility.
They found it in some sort-guy's locker at the facility. The knucklehead must have forgot they get metal-detected going into and out of the facility.
Dunno what happened to the sort-guy, but Frank got the gun back without a problem. Good to see the ATF actually doing something GOOD every once in a while...
StormWarning
Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
- 8
Yes, that is one of the few GOOD ATF stories I have heard.
jobu07
Contributing Member
But it was a good story nonetheless, and that is all that matters.
EOD Guy
Member
Sorry, but the BATF screwed up the answer to that FAQ. Notification is only required if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. I have two letters from BATF Hq agreeing with my reading of the regulation and admitting that the answer to their FAQ is not entirely correct.
Comments above concerning insurance coverage (or lack thereof) if you don't tell the shipper should be considered.
Rifle
My son bought a flintlock in Tenn. a little after the new shipping requirements came about. UPS refused to ship it home for him . Although at the time I believe black powder weapons were permisable . He brought it home with about three feet of it sticking out of a midget Honda, Couldn't fit it inside at all. Had to reallly clean it though. Came though several storms. .........MUTT
My son bought a flintlock in Tenn. a little after the new shipping requirements came about. UPS refused to ship it home for him . Although at the time I believe black powder weapons were permisable . He brought it home with about three feet of it sticking out of a midget Honda, Couldn't fit it inside at all. Had to reallly clean it though. Came though several storms. .........MUTT
Marshal,
It would, in my opinion, have been very poor judgement to withhold the fact, that the shipment contains a firearm, from the shipper. You think it may cause someone to steal the gun, this is not the case they do not mark the boxes at UPS to say GUN INSIDE (they have too many thieves working therein). However, if the gun is not declared, then is stolen, there will be no insurance and; even if the gun was irreplaceable at least you would be able to collect the insurance money had you informed the shipper of its contents. Furthermore you risk be refused service by UPS again in the future should they discover the contents of the package. Secondly you risk, if you get caught, having them make their shipping regulations more cumbersome than they are already by finding yourself as one of the may who sneaks firearms through the UPS system; one of the many that it but maybe the final straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak.
Of course I was also wondering why all this cloak and dagger stuff, but it sounds to me like you will wind up declaring it now you realize they will not mark it FIREARM on the outside of the box.
Best regards,
Glenn B
It would, in my opinion, have been very poor judgement to withhold the fact, that the shipment contains a firearm, from the shipper. You think it may cause someone to steal the gun, this is not the case they do not mark the boxes at UPS to say GUN INSIDE (they have too many thieves working therein). However, if the gun is not declared, then is stolen, there will be no insurance and; even if the gun was irreplaceable at least you would be able to collect the insurance money had you informed the shipper of its contents. Furthermore you risk be refused service by UPS again in the future should they discover the contents of the package. Secondly you risk, if you get caught, having them make their shipping regulations more cumbersome than they are already by finding yourself as one of the may who sneaks firearms through the UPS system; one of the many that it but maybe the final straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak.
Of course I was also wondering why all this cloak and dagger stuff, but it sounds to me like you will wind up declaring it now you realize they will not mark it FIREARM on the outside of the box.
Best regards,
Glenn B
Marshall
Member
Glenn,
Yea, like I said, I've never shipped a firearm. I had no idea the rules involved or how they marked the packages. Now that I do, it's simply a matter of shipping it correctly or not shipping it at all. It appears to be fairly safe though.
Thanks,
Marshall
Yea, like I said, I've never shipped a firearm. I had no idea the rules involved or how they marked the packages. Now that I do, it's simply a matter of shipping it correctly or not shipping it at all. It appears to be fairly safe though.
Thanks,
Marshall
Sir Aardvark
Member
Back when I had my FFL in '93 it cost about $8.00 to ship a handgun by ground.
Then, when I reaquired my FFL in 2002, shipping was about $27.00 from UPS and FED-EX via "Next Day Air". Some wholesalers were pretty cool and would ship by US Priority Mail, which would cost $12.00.
My understanding for the reason why UPS went to "Next Day Air" for handguns was due to the fact that they could not control employee theft.
If you guys are really concerned about theft, then my suggestion is to insure your package for $5,000.00. This is the magic number that will cause your package to be locked up in the "Cage" at the UPS Warehouse, thus ensuring a modicum of security to your expensive firearms.
Then, when I reaquired my FFL in 2002, shipping was about $27.00 from UPS and FED-EX via "Next Day Air". Some wholesalers were pretty cool and would ship by US Priority Mail, which would cost $12.00.
My understanding for the reason why UPS went to "Next Day Air" for handguns was due to the fact that they could not control employee theft.
If you guys are really concerned about theft, then my suggestion is to insure your package for $5,000.00. This is the magic number that will cause your package to be locked up in the "Cage" at the UPS Warehouse, thus ensuring a modicum of security to your expensive firearms.
- Status
