Shooting and Blood Lead Levels

[nerfsrule2]

I am posting this as information so you can make your own decisions.. A friend of mine who shoots more than me..(Especially indoors).. Had is Blood lead level checked and it was 36. (He is 66 years old) .

I had my levels checked and the blood test results were 10. (I am 56)

We shoot a lot, Both inside and out. I know that lead is an inherent risk that comes with the sport.

I was my hands and face after each session.. I must start washing the clothing (Especially the Pants after each shooting session)..If I only wore the pants for a few hours that day then went shooting i would put them on the hanger and wear them again one more time..

So if you shoot a lot you may want to have your Blood Lead Levels checked next time you go in for a Physical...

 

[General Geoff]

Indoor ranges contribute vastly more to lead poisoning than outdoor ones. Even with the best ventilation systems, the lead vapors still linger longer indoors. If you must use an indoor range often and are concerned with lead poisoning, you can wear a respirator to help cut down on the fumes you're inhaling.

 

[Schwing]

I went through this back in 2013. I was up to 36 and had no idea why. After a few months of bouncing around I actually went up to 45.

I take almost OCD precautions when I handle lead but still had issues. I never shoot indoors and wear a lead/asbestos mask and gloves any time I handle lead... Even when I shoot outdoors.

In talking with my Doc. he believes some folks are prone to absorbing lead while others do not. A perfect example is my best friend who shoots, reloads and casts with me. I always run high and he runs at 0.

After months of reading etc. I found that taking certain supplements seems to help more than anything else. Vitamin C, Iron and Calcium helped tremendously. Lead can mimic Iron and calcium so, if you don't get enough of either, your body will use the lead instead. Lots of old timey lead casters advised me to take daily vitamin c as well. After 6 weeks I went from 45 to 15 without changing anything except the supplements. My doctor was pretty shocked.

To be frank, I don't even get checked anymore. One thing I learned through all of this is that lead level guidelines have drastically changed over the last few decades. These days you have to be 25 or higher to be removed from lead work (OSHA). A few decades ago that number was 40 and a couple of decades before that it was 60! I am not saying in any way that high lead levels are not dangerous but folks a few decades ago worked in lead refineries with levels up to 60. Personally, I take the absolute best precautions I can and then don't worry about it anymore. I get so much stress relief and joy out of the hobby that I am certain that I would be far more likely to die of a heart attack if I quite than lead poisoning if I don't.

 

[stonecutter2]

I went through this back in 2013. I was up to 36 and had no idea why. After a few months of bouncing around I actually went up to 45.

I take almost OCD precautions when I handle lead but still had issues. I never shoot indoors and wear a lead/asbestos mask and gloves any time I handle lead... Even when I shoot outdoors.

In talking with my Doc. he believes some folks are prone to absorbing lead while others do not. A perfect example is my best friend who shoots, reloads and casts with me. I always run high and he runs at 0.

After months of reading etc. I found that taking certain supplements seems to help more than anything else. Vitamin C, Iron and Calcium helped tremendously. Lead can mimic Iron and calcium so, if you don't get enough of either, your body will use the lead instead. Lots of old timey lead casters advised me to take daily vitamin c as well. After 6 weeks I went from 45 to 15 without changing anything except the supplements. My doctor was pretty shocked.

To be frank, I don't even get checked anymore. One thing I learned through all of this is that lead level guidelines have drastically changed over the last few decades. These days you have to be 25 or higher to be removed from lead work (OSHA). A few decades ago that number was 40 and a couple of decades before that it was 60! I am not saying in any way that high lead levels are not dangerous but folks a few decades ago worked in lead refineries with levels up to 60. Personally, I take the absolute best precautions I can and then don't worry about it anymore. I get so much stress relief and joy out of the hobby that I am certain that I would be far more likely to die of a heart attack if I quite than lead poisoning if I don't.

I believe those numbers changed over time because it became evident through the passage of time what those numbers really meant, and how those individuals fared with various levels of lead in them.

Yes, one must keep all risks in their proper perspective, but lead isn't a great thing to mess with for too long. Definitely best for all to minimize exposure and do what you can.

 

[orionengnr]

If you get an annual physical (and if you don't, why not?) just ask your doc to include a lead level test in the blood tests they are already conducting. They may have to draw one more vial.
I don't count the vials or worry about how many they take; I'll make more blood.
When I started handloading around '08-09 I asked my doc to do a lead test, and have done so every year since then.
I just went back and reviewed my records. Highest I hit was a 9 (second year). Since then, with minimal precautions, I've dropped down to and maintained it at 3. By that I mean:
--No mask. Nitrile gloves when handling dirty cases, tumbling, and handling used primers.
--I try to stand upwind when dumping the contents of the tumbler and separating media from brass.
--Sometimes, nitrile gloves while handloading.
--Hand washing after shooting and after handloading.

 

[springer99]

I wash my hands after I get back from the range or after I've been reloading. Why???? Because they're dirty.

Between working in an industrical environment, dealing with weed killers and insecticides around the home, and dealing with additives in the food I eat, I should worry about this?


Really???

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Most of the modern medical "hazards" we are continually warned against take 20 to 30 years to develop into any actual medical issues. Now that I am over 60 I figure it is time to take up smoking, drinking, eating bacon and eggs, ice cream, and even sex if I can remember how because I am likely to die of "natural causes" before any of the negative side effects can harm me......

 

[TimSr]

The problem for many of us in the 2nd half (or less) of life is that we have seen so many idiotic theories hyped up, paniced over, and later rescinded, and that "science" has become so politicized, that we are VERY skeptical of what we are told. If you believe in pop science today, you are inclined to believe that carbon dioxide is deadlier than lead.

I'm am concerned that accumulations of lead and other heavy metals in your system is detrimental to health, but I highly question what that level is, and how much everyday life, including shooting affects it. I'm more inclined to follow Schwing's notations on general nutrition and how our God given bodies were made with the natural ability to combat natural toxins if we keep it tuned up with the right fuel. My generation grew up teething on wooded toys with lead paint, walls painted with it, and leaded gasoline vapors we breathed every day we drove behind another vehicle, and we are living longer than ever. I'm sure it's taken it's toll, but I'm very skeptical as to how much.

Now that I am over 60 I figure it is time to take up smoking, drinking, eating bacon and eggs, ice cream, and even sex if I can remember how because I am likely to die of "natural causes" before any of the negative side effects can harm me......

After being 30 years smoke free, and my mother dying from lung cancer, my father has taken up smoking again at age 79. I can't think of a logical reason to criticize as he doesn't smoke around others.

 

[340PD]

I work at an indoor range and all of us get tested yearly for lead levels. The number goes up and down like a yo-yo. All of us tested are less than 20 with most running in the 12-14 range but I have had as much as a ten point drop in a year period. I suspect age and surgical implants also contribute to heavy metals found in the bloodstream.
At 71 I'm not going to stop doing what I love. The clock is running too fast.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I wish I shot enough for me to be concerned about this.......

However, I do try to wash my hands frequently after cleaning guns, shooting, or handling my reloading components. I've never been tested, but I just don't think I get to shoot enough for it to be an issue....... yet. I suspect retirement in 22-25 years will cause a marked increase in my levels. None the less, I should get tested.

 

[hso]

These days you have to be 25 or higher to be removed from lead work (OSHA). A few decades ago that number was 40 and a couple of decades before that it was 60!

Not quite correct.

Occupational removal is at 60 ug/100 g of whole blood for a single BLL or 3 consecutive BLLs of 50ug/100 g of whole blood or more. Return is at 40 ug/100 g of whole blood. See the excerpt from the OHSA standard below.

1910.1025(k)
Medical Removal Protection -
1910.1025(k)(1)
Temporary medical removal and return of an employee -
1910.1025(k)(1)(i)
Temporary removal due to elevated blood lead levels -
1910.1025(k)(1)(i)(A)
The employer shall remove an employee from work having an exposure to lead at or above the action level on each occasion that a periodic and a follow-up blood sampling test conducted pursuant to this section indicate that the employee's blood lead level is at or above 60 ug/100 g of whole blood; and,
1910.1025(k)(1)(i)(B)
The employer shall remove an employee from work having an exposure to lead at or above the action level on each occasion that the average of the last three blood sampling tests conducted pursuant to this section (or the average of all blood sampling tests conducted over the previous six (6) months, whichever is longer) indicates that the employee's blood lead level is at or above 50 [mu]g/100 g of whole blood; provided, however, that an employee need not be removed if the last blood sampling test indicates a blood lead level below 40 [mu]g/100 g of whole blood.
1910.1025(k)(1)(ii)
Temporary removal due to a final medical determination.
1910.1025(k)(1)(ii)(A)
The employer shall remove an employee from work having an exposure to lead at or above the action level on each occasion that a final medical determination results in a medical finding, determination, or opinion that the employee has a detected medical condition which places the employee at increased risk of material impairment to health from exposure to lead.
1910.1025(k)(1)(ii)(B)
For the purposes of this section, the phrase "final medical determination" shall mean the outcome of the multiple physician review mechanism or alternate medical determination mechanism used pursuant to the medical surveillance provisions of this section.
1910.1025(k)(1)(ii)(C)
Where a final medical determination results in any recommended special protective measures for an employee, or limitations on an employee's exposure to lead, the employer shall implement and act consistent with the recommendation.
1910.1025(k)(1)(iii)
Return of the employee to former job status.
1910.1025(k)(1)(iii)(A)
The employer shall return an employee to his or her former job status:
1910.1025(k)(1)(iii)(A)(1)
For an employee removed due to a blood lead level at or above 60 [mu]g/100 g, or due to an average blood lead level at or above 50 [mu]g/100 g, when two consecutive blood sampling tests indicate that the employee's blood lead level is below 40 [mu]g/100 g of whole blood;

Any BLL for an adult over 10 ug/100 g of whole blood is considered approaching the abnormal level and anything over 15 ug/100 g of whole blood should be addressed right away.

 

[stchman]

What about people that reload all the time? Are they far more likely to get lead poisoning than just shooters?

 

[hso]

Exposure is completely dependent upon jacketing, handling and hygiene. Jacketed bullets don't expose you to lead when handling, they're jacketed. Washing your hands before eating/drinking or taking anything by mouth removes what may have gotten on your hands. Good hygiene practices are usually sufficient for anyone reloading and not casting lead.

 

[joem1945]

I've worked in the lead mines a few times but never had any problems with lead levels.

 

[4v50 Gary]

When.I.was.rangemaster.mine.was.11....I.backed.off.for.a.while

 

[1911 guy]

Lead exposure is possible in all aspects of the shooting sports, but I believe I recall an actual study that pointed to the reloading bench, and tumblers specifically, as the largest contributor.

 

[wgp]

An instructor whose classes I attend recently warned us about this. His blood lead level was very high, required expensive medication. His points: change the clothes and shoes you shoot in, wash thoroughly, don't drink from bottles or cans sitting out on the range, that sort of thing. I notice that the workers cleaning up the indoor range are now wearing hazmat suits and masks, and are no longer allowed to sweep the range floor for brass (they use a sort of rubber squeegee to raise less dust in the air).

 

[LiveLife]

According to 4/25/14 CDC report on indoor ranges and elevated blood lead levels, there likely is a link -
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6316a3.htm?s_cid=mm6316a3_w

... this report document serious lead exposure from indoor firing ranges ... BLLs should be kept below 10 µg/dL for all adults, and below 5 µg/dL for children and pregnant women.

The findings in this report also suggest that firing range customers and family members of firing range employees, in addition to employees themselves, can be exposed to hazardous amounts of lead.

... The number of persons with elevated BLLs from firearms use during 2011–2012 highlights the need to increase prevention activities. Airborne and surface lead levels in firing ranges can be greatly reduced by using lead-free bullets, improving ventilation systems, using wet mopping or HEPA vacuuming instead of dry sweeping, and having a written protocol for range maintenance.

In the Handloading & Reloading section, there's an ongoing thread that discusses lead poisoning. Many members' blood lead levels elevated when they shot indoors or casted lead bullets with inadequate ventilation. My lead level elevated when I shot indoors - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9616073#post9616073

While different people's bodies react to lead exposure differently, breathing in lead fume/dust seems to increase lead level faster than other forms of exposure.

What about people that reload all the time? Are they far more likely to get lead poisoning than just shooters?

As to handling solid lead bullets for reloading, I do not believe enough lead can be absorbed through the skin to pose an issue.

As to shooting more because you reload, you would increase lead exposure depending on what type of bullets you shoot (JHP/plated/coated vs FMJ with exposed lead base/bare lubed lead) and where you shoot (indoor vs outdoors). I even think bending down to pick up spent brass from indoor range floor increase lead exposure.

I now only shoot outdoors but still take precautions. I prefer to use bullets with copper jacket/plating covering lead base or coated lead bullets (with coated lead base) to reduce lead exposure. If I shoot lubed lead bullets, I am cautious of wind direction so as to not breath in lead dust from muzzle blast.

 

[Twiki357]

Schwing:
In talking with my Doc. he believes some folks are prone to absorbing lead while others do not. A perfect example is my best friend who shoots, reloads and casts with me. I always run high and he runs at 0.

After months of reading etc. I found that taking certain supplements seems to help more than anything else. Vitamin C, Iron and Calcium helped tremendously. Lead can mimic Iron and calcium so, if you don't get enough of either, your body will use the lead instead. Lots of old timey lead casters advised me to take daily vitamin c as well. After 6 weeks I went from 45 to 15 without changing anything except the supplements. My doctor was pretty shocked.

I agree with your doctor that people are different when it comes to absorbing lead. I’ve been casting bullets and reloading since the early 1960s. The only precautions I’ve even taken is to wash my hands after casting, reloading and shooting. The last time I had my lead level checked, it was a 4. I never heard of the vitamin C thing until just now. But I have been taking it daily for probably the last 40+ years so maybe that has helped.

In my case, I think the caffeine and nicotine will get me long before the lead has a chance.

 

[ants]

"Lead" is not a fully understood subject to medical science, let alone you and me.

So much is misunderstood and even more miscommunicated about lead.
The actual facts are so blurry, I doubt we'll ever know the actual truth in our own lifetimes.
We assume our shooting activities causes lead in the blood, but we forget that
non-shooters in our own cities and neighborhoods have lead problems.
It's not just one activity, it's the entire environment and our entire life activities
that contribute.

Three things we do know after 150 years of actual real life testing and multiariate evaluation:
1. We absorb a lot through our lungs.
2. We absorb less through our guts.
3. We absorb relatively little through our skin.


We focus on shooting sports as the source of our own blood lead levels, while forgetting that
people who don't shoot at all also have high blood lead levels in the same city.
It's not just our own shooting environment, it's everything we do and where we live.

Meanwhile shooters with tens of thousands of rounds down an indoor range have no problem.
So why do they have no problem when some folks who shoot fewer rounds have a problem?
We don't know enough to answer that question. On this Forum or any other.


The most clear fact: We shooters know less about lead than we think we do.
But there is no perfect definitive source to find out the truth. So we are victim
to the misunderstandings and untruths that we read on Al Gore's invention the Internet.
Curse Al Gore!

 

[LiveLife]

Three things we do know after 150 years of actual real life testing and multiariate evaluation:
1. We absorb a lot through our lungs.
2. We absorb less through our guts.
3. We absorb relatively little through our skin.

I would agree

Meanwhile shooters with tens of thousands of rounds down an indoor range have no problem.

So why do they have no problem when some folks who shoot fewer rounds have a problem?

We don't know enough to answer that question. On this Forum or any other.

On the H&R thread, this was discussed. What we found is that some people remove lead from bloodstream more efficiently than others. So even though they shot more rounds at indoor ranges, they would show lower BLL than others less efficient at removing lead from bloodstream (who shot less rounds at indoor ranges in the same amount of time).

IMHO, regardless of how efficient your body is at removing lead from bloodstream, shooting indoors is likely the number one contributor of lead exposure.

If you have any doubt, simply have your blood lead level checked regularly. If it is low (less than 10), then you may not have a problem and you can keep shooting without making any changes. If your BLL is high and rising over time, then you may need to make changes.

 

[nerfsrule2]

where this will have the biggest impact will be at the young shooters at the club.. They were given suggestions about putting up signs in the 22 rifle range..about washing hands and no eating or drinking on the range.. What the club did not realize was the amount of lead on the Prone shooters mats and how much residue became airborne when they dry swept the floor after shooting..

The problem with the indoor pistol was the air circled in front of the shooter with the fan and heater on without going anywhere.. While there was circulation it did not cover the area around the shooter as well as it should have..

The other concern was a sign warning women who may possibly be pregnant about lead in the area..

 

[blarby]

As someone who is consistently and in my view, unfairly, affected by lead, i'd tell everyone to get their level checked.

Some common myths :

1. Jacketed bullets pose no exposure. Bull. Stick a lead tester on one. Same goes for plated. Reduced ? Yes. Eliminated ? Not hardly. FMC's or CMJ's are better, but its not zero.

2. My bore solvent removes everything. Bull. Again, at most it pushes it around. Depending on what solvents you use ( I've seen some pretty nasty home witches brews) that pushing could be through your skin.

3. Heavy metals from primer compounds are just as bad if not worse than direct lead exposure. True. Primers are HORRIBLE. Primer residue accumulating in tumbling media is absolutely loaded with a potpurri of heavy metals.

4. I wear gloves, thats enough. Bull. Especially in indoor ranges. Unless you're in a hazmant suit, you're being exposed. Unless you know how to take it off properly, you might as well not put it on.

The "level" thats a problem is obviously different for different people, and thats part of what makes a broadly painted stroke of danger level difficult. the best we have, as HSO pointed out, is certain levels that we KNOW can cause harm.

In our camp, we go from " I eat bullets in my breakfast cereal, and have for decades" to "I had one pin drop, and died from cancer". Somewhere in the middle, the truth lies.

Get tested, talk to a doctor YOU TRUST about interpreting your results, and do what you can to limit exposure.

The sky isn't falling, but it is cloudy...

 

[Tenncvol]

USCCA's Concealed Carry Magazine had an article about lead exposure in a recent issue. A product called LeadOff available as a soap or wipes was mentioned as more effective than conventional soaps at removing lead residue from surfaces and skin. As noted in other posts people vary in the effects of exposure but children are of specific concern. And I used to play with lead toy soldiers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Panzerschwein]

+1

I have a can of those wipes that I use at the outdoor range when I'm done shooting, a place that only has an outhouse, no sinks. That's where I do all of my black powder shooting so I'm always handling lead balls. After I get done, I use a few of the wipes and that gets me home were I can scrub scrub scrub.