Shooting in switzerland

[wacki]

http://www.swissrifles.com/shooting/

I didn't know they served beer and wine. Anyone know how those electronic scoring things work?

 

[swingset]

Not all the ranges serve, but many do. Few safety problems on their ranges, it's worth noting. They play by "big boy" rules on the range, but god help you if you do cause an accident or hurt someone.

I shot there when I was a teenager visiting my aunt, it was quite an experience and they do love to shoot. The first .mil weapon I ever shot was a Sig540....a rarity I've since learned even in Switzerland. Didn't know how lucky I was!!!

 

[Stachie]

If I ever migrate to Europe, I am sure that I would settle in Switzerland.

 

[RemingtonFreak870]

I believe Swiss law requires each household to have a rifle, and every man must serve in the Armed Forces for a year...seems like a progressive place.

 

[swingset]

If I ever migrate to Europe, I am sure that I would settle in Switzerland.

Immigration to Switzerland is VERY difficult, unless you're very rich and have family ties there....or are of some use to the Swiss. Even then, they might just tell you take a hike. Gotta love their border control. We should take notes.

 

[cbsbyte]

A friend of mine grew up in Switzerland, and served in the army for sometime. He stated to me that the rules at Swiss ranges are very strict, and a minor infraction can get you booted. Shooting in Switzerland is not like in the US, and one should brush up on all proper safe firearm handling, and club rules before going to a range. Also many ranges are private, and very exclusive, so one will need to know a member to use the facilities. Also in more urban areas, do to noise ordinances many ranges are closed during the week days.

 

[M67]

Anyone know how those electronic scoring things work?

They're quite common over here. Microphones along the edge of the target frame register the sound of the bullet passing through. A computer figures out the coordinates of the hit based on the time it takes the sound to reach each microphone. There are also microphones in front of each shooter picking up the sound of the shot itself, so that the system knows who fired each shot, in case for example someone shoots at the wrong target. IIRC, targets used in international competition have to be accurate to less than 1/10 mm, and competition requirements set the standard for all commercial electronic targets.

Each shooter has a monitor on the firing line, where the exact placement of the shot will show up. Everything is hooked up to a regular computer network, so that match administrators can sit at a central location and enter competitors' names and other information, which will then instantly show up on the range officers' computer on the firing line(s), scores will "travel" the other way. At large matches, scores can be shown on stadium type scoreboards for spectators, or TV crews can plug into the network and for example show each shooter's hits live in a corner of the screen. At the national matches in Norway, you can actually go to the match internet site and click on an individual shooter's name and bring his or her target up on your monitor, either at home or sitting at the range with your lap top logged on to the wireless network they always provide at these matches.

If I ever migrate to Europe, I am sure that I would settle in Switzerland.

I already live in Europe. If I were to relocate, Switzerland would not be at the top of my list, or indeed anywhere near the top. It's too heavily regulated for my taste. I'm pretty sure I would feel more at home in say Germany - much more laid back and relaxed.

No, there is no Swiss law requiring anyone to own a firearm. There is conscription, and reservists are required to store their government issued equipment at home. A good system, and one that is or has been used in one form or other in several other European countries.

 

[Justin]

I've seen similar electronic scoring targets used for air rifle and air pistol competition.

I find it somewhat telling that the Swiss seem to take marksmanship far more seriously than most Americans.

 

[foob]

Think that's one of the reasons why the Swiss can stay neutral heh. Nobody wants to mess with them.

 

[Beatnik]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if you replace "Switzerland" with "Beverly Hills", and "Shooting" with "Golf", you'd have the same attitude...

...I'd much rather try to maintain our "wild west" attitude over here than migrate to their controlled society.

 

[bthest86]

Swizterland may be more gun friendly than its neighbors but they're gun control laws are still extremely strict compared to the US.

No open or concealed carry for them.

I think Beatnik is right. Guns, I think, are more of a recreation for them otherwise firearm "ownership" is strictly a military matter, heavily policed and controled. The idea of an average joe carrying or owning a gun for personal security is as taboo to them as it is any other Europeans.

 

[swingset]

It's easy for Switzerland to see the benefits of tighter gun control - or at least the illusion of those benefits. You've got a pretty much weathly, educated and homogenous society from one end of the country to the other. Find a Swiss "slum". Coupled with their strict immigration policy, there's little that would fuel a poor, angry criminal element in their country.

To put that into more direct terms, if you factor out inner city gang and drug violence in this country, our crime rate is one of the lowest in the free world, including our murder rate.

It's not the guns, it's the angry and violent criminal inner cities.

 

[Fosbery]

Actually you can carry a gun in Switzerland. Army issue weapons (SIG P210s, P220s, 510s, 55xs and, K31s etc) can be carried in public without restriction as far as I know.

Other weapons require a permit. The granting of this permit varies from canton to canton (states). In some cantons, only security guards get permits. In others, just about anyone can.

I heard a little while ago that government ammunition bought at government ranges is supposed to be used at the range and not taken away. I didn't even know this, I have plenty of government ammunition in the safe I rent to keep my guns in (which is not on a government range). I know plenty of Swiss who take their ammo home too. I don't think it's enforced at all.

Admittedly, the Swiss do not, on the whole, think of their guns in terms of self-defence from criminals. If a Swiss man has his house broken into he, he would probably take his gun to investigate but he dosn't consider this the purpose of owning his gun. Crime is extremely low in Switzerland so it dosn't enter into it much in any case.

I'm probably one of the few members of this board who spends a lot of time in Switzerland (despite being a non-resident, I have a permit to purchase firearms there which I take great advantage of ). The Swiss I'm friendly with arn't all that interested in gun politics. Pro-gun Americans I meet are quite angry and frustrated with gun control. My Swiss friends find it rather ammusing. They think of guns like tennis rackets or screwdrivers. Just...objects, with no special connotations attached. They don't think in terms of 'gun rights'. Afterall, Americans don't think in terms of 'screwdriver rights'.

This scares me, because the anti-gun Swiss (I can't say I've ever met one to my knowledge but they must exist) do attach connotations to guns. They have passion and motivation. Swiss shooters shrugging their shoulders and chuckling at the idea of gun control won't save them

 

[bthest86]

Actually you can carry a gun in Switzerland. Army issue weapons (SIG P210s, P220s, 510s, 55xs and, K31s etc) can be carried in public without restriction as far as I know.

I've actually read that they must be unloaded, magazine removed and no ammunition can be carried with them.

 

[cloudcroft]

Stachie,

"If I ever migrate to Europe, I am sure that I would settle in Switzerland."


You might want to rethink that, unless you're rich.

Last time I checked, Switzerland requires one to PROVE he/she has at least 75-grand a year in income (it may be more now)...they don't want any "deadbeats" moving there to live/retire.

One big reason that I'm staying in America...what's another deadbeat here?

-- John

 

[Zoogster]

I've seen similar electronic scoring targets used for air rifle and air pistol competition.

I find it somewhat telling that the Swiss seem to take marksmanship far more seriously than most Americans.

I don't think I would want ranges that kept computer records of not only use etc, but placement of every shot via the network of microphones and computer database. Not only because of the big brother aspect, but your being judged and averaged on record in terms of accuracy by shots that include sighting in new guns,or intentionaly aiming at points other than the bull's eye on a target? I know I often get cheap at the range and once I wear out part of a target I start aiming at another point of reference instead of putting a new pristine target up just because the bull's eye is missing.

Electronic records of casual range use seems more than just a bit intrusive and I in no way want to follow that example. That is tons of data that can be manipulated for who knows what purpose.

I can just see antis with range records saying so and so average Joe American, is unqualified and dangerous to not only thier intended target but everyone else and these records prove it. Suddenly you have new legislation requiring range competency for ownership and another level of bureaucratic BS that costs more $ for gun owners and adds yet another tool for eventual confiscation.

 

[ilcylic]

I'm pretty sure I would feel more at home in say Germany - much more laid back and relaxed.

Heh. I have a friend who moved to Germany from the USA. She found it very hidebound. A number of people she ran into in the first city she lived in (before she learned to keep her head down better) said something along the lines of "This is Germany! We have Rules here!" (Without any sort of explaination as to what those rules might be.)

Ironically, she says living in Beijing is much more relaxed.

 

[LAK]

Immigration to Switzerland is VERY difficult, unless you're very rich and have family ties there....or are of some use to the Swiss. Even then, they might just tell you take a hike. Gotta love their border control. We should take notes.

Even if you can not emigrate there, visit while it is still Switzerland. Sadly, it isn't going to last. They are certain to be capitulated - and note my choice of words - into the EU; whereby anyone from any EU member state will be permitted to work or live there. That will be the end of Switzerland as we have known it. Very sad indeed.

I never did any shooting there, but visited many times for work and once for a bit of climbing. The culture and topography were wonderful.

----------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[30 cal slob]

last i checked, austria had the better gun-friendly laws (ccw, full auto, etc).

 

[Steelharp]

"If I ever migrate to Europe, I am sure that I would settle in Switzerland."

You might want to rethink that, unless you're rich.

Last time I checked, Switzerland requires one to PROVE he/she has at least 75-grand a year in income (it may be more now)...they don't want any "deadbeats" moving there to live/retire.

Well... a dear friend of mine, John Brack ( www.johnbrack.com ) who just passed away a while back was a citizen. He brought me over a couple years ago for a month and a half tour. He said their biggest problem there was the rash of "certain" people coming across, filing some type of no work paper, and being handed state money to live because by Swiss law, they HAD to be given the money. Then, when their two year period came to a close, they just leave, and more come in. The "certain" was determined by ethnicity.

 

[wacki]

Swizterland may be more gun friendly than its neighbors but they're gun control laws are still extremely strict compared to the US.

No open or concealed carry for them.

are you sure about that?

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ae771eb4adb.htm

Whatever you do, don't trust wikipedia on this topic. Lots of edit wars go on their.

 

[wacki]

firearm "ownership" is strictly a military matter, heavily policed and controled.

Well I know you are flat out wrong on this one. Hunting firearms have ZERO regulation. You need to read this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ae771eb4adb.htm

Or go to guncite and read the actual swiss laws.

 

[LAK]

Better than pictures of guntoting swiss in town supermarkets - would be film of californian, New Yorker [etc] reactions to seeing that on their vacations there

They should then all be on one of those prime time "funniest" video shows.

-------------------------------

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