Shooting original Remington New Army?

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Bubba32

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Wonder who in the group has experience with the originals? I have pondered getting one in "shooting" condition, and my safety concern would mainly be in the cylinder.

Do any of the Italian reproduction cylinders stand a chance of working? Figured it might need a new hand and some timing work, but is it even possible?

Appreciate the thoughts and wisdom.

Used to have several old timers that shot in competition with originals years ago, but they have sadly passed on.
 
Back in the 70s I had a original NMA. It has gain twist rifling and heavy trigger. That's about all I remember about it other than it shot just fine if a bit high. I sold it years ago.
 
Why shoot an original when there are so many reproductions available? Regardless of the safety issues (of shooting an original), why subject it to additional wear and tear? Considering that these are historical artifacts (not being made any more), it seems to me that we have an ethical obligation to preserve them.
 
AlexanderA said:
Why shoot an original when there are so many reproductions available? Regardless of the safety issues (of shooting an original), why subject it to additional wear and tear? Considering that these are historical artifacts (not being made any more), it seems to me that we have an ethical obligation to preserve them.
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Agreed.

These guns are highly valuable as collector’s guns and for historical preservation. Shooting one could end up breaking a part of otherwise wearing the gun, resulting in a loss of value and damaging its collector’s appeal.

Get a Pietta or Uberto replica if you intend to shoot one of these pistols.
 
I don't care about collector value. I've got an 1853 pattern Enfield I shoot. I've also got a SXS shotgun made around 1850 I shoot. I've worn a good bit of bluing off of an immaculate S&W 1926 3rd model. Yeah it dropped it's value by a few hundred bucks but it sure is fun to shoot.
 
The originals are fine. They are better-made than almost all of the repros. I shoot mine...although I'll concede that I don't shoot them all that much. Proficiency work is done with the repro guns, the originals are for MLAIC match work.
 
Mike OTDP said:
The originals are fine. They are better-made than almost all of the repros. I shoot mine...although I'll concede that I don't shoot them all that much. Proficiency work is done with the repro guns, the originals are for MLAIC match work.
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I really doubt that the originals are better than the repros.

Metallurgically speaking, the processes used today make the "same" metals used back then miles better. If you'd like, i can reach out to the head of the metallurgical engineering department. Had a conversation with him once about a similar matter.
 
gobsauce said:
I really doubt that the originals are better than the repros.

Metallurgically speaking, the processes used today make the "same" metals used back then miles better. If you'd like, i can reach out to the head of the metallurgical engineering department. Had a conversation with him once about a similar matter.
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The metal used is better today. I doubt anybody is saying it isn't. The workmanship on originals is far better than any repro. Also the originals handle better and feel better than repros. Yes the metallurgy isn't as good but it's still good enough for bp. Even original cartridge guns are good with bp.
 
hawg said:
The workmanship on originals is far better than any repro. Also the originals handle better and feel better than repros.
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Exactly. The original guns were made as well as 1860 technology permitted. The modern repros, for the most part, are made to a price point that limits what can be done as far as precision goes. I'll put it this way - my original Remington will go shot-for-shot with my Hege-Remington. Maybe better, my personal best performance is with the original gun.
 
Mike OTDP said:
Exactly. The original guns were made as well as 1860 technology permitted. The modern repros, for the most part, are made to a price point that limits what can be done as far as precision goes. I'll put it this way - my original Remington will go shot-for-shot with my Hege-Remington. Maybe better, my personal best performance is with the original gun.
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This why fellows such as myself and 45 Dragoon tune those Italian replicas. They can be made into precision pieces.
 
Originals are fairly common and not outrageously expensive, unless you are comparing them to repros. They also are very well made, and not likely to be significantly worn or damaged by shooting them. It's normal to need to replace old springs - which probably should be kept, should the gun ever need be restored to original condition - but otherwise, they can be expected to be very good and useful guns.
 
AlexanderA said:
Why shoot an original when there are so many reproductions available? Regardless of the safety issues (of shooting an original), why subject it to additional wear and tear? Considering that these are historical artifacts (not being made any more), it seems to me that we have an ethical obligation to preserve them.
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I understand your point, but there is also a certain enjoyment from shooting the genuine article that might have had a wonderful history.

I had a Trapdoor Springfield and an original Winchester '73, shot both many times. Would not have considered buying a replica once I had those.

They both shot well and no repairs were necessary during the time I had them. I believe any wear I may have added would be negligible.
 
AlexanderA said:
Considering that these are historical artifacts (not being made any more), it seems to me that we have an ethical obligation to preserve them.
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What’s the ethical cutoff date? Or is it determined by number of surviving examples? You only have to go back a couple of years to find examples of modern guns that are “not being made anymore”. Are we under an ethical obligation to not to shoot them either?
 
1995
I posted in a thread whose conclusion was that a Norinco 'Model of the 1911A1' should not be modified because they had gotten valuable after importation was blocked.

My CAS lever action was made in 1907, is that too historical?
My .44 Russian and .38-44 Target were Antiques, pre 1899, probably 1888 or so. I did sell them to collectors, though.

An old article described the difference between collector and shooter.
The author had two 1851 Colts.
One he had fixed up for shooting and looks, the barrel relined and the gun engraved in a 19th century pattern.
He was fixing to doll up the other which was a London Colt with backstrap inscription. He figured it was from a British unit in the Crimea or such; of little interest to American collectors at the time. But he looked it up. The inscription went to a small New England CW outfit and of considerable collector interest as a reimported London gun. He didn't alter THAT one.
 
Collectors be damned. If they don't like me shooting something they should remember they will get it at a cheaper price when I'm gone. I don't believe in collector pieces or safe queens. Guns were made to be used and I will use them.
 
44 Dave said:
I have a 1880 built 1873 Winchester I shoot for SASS. People with clones and new made copies have gun problems while my "old gal":just keeps going, and most of the time black powder.
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I believe it's simply because those old guns were made to be used as serious tools. I imagine accuracy and reliability was important if you wanted to stay in business as a gun maker.

The clones are made to be budget and profit friendly guns with "alright"/"adequate" accuracy that will fire most of the time with fun and games in mind or replica collectors.

I will concede that the metal used today is better than 19th century steel or iron but how much better. What I don't like is it sounds like people are trying to imply the soft mild steel used in the Italian replicas are the same as modern arsenal grade steel used on modern smokeless powder cartridge guns and it is not. It's not even close and that fact needs to be pointed out.

Modern mild steel is more pure than 19th century steel with better grain structure and stuff like that (I think from what I read) however my impression is when dealing with black powder pressures is that quality fit and finish goes a long way and a high quality original with great fit and finish can easily be a much better firearm overall (a more reliable and accurate shooter) than a replica despite the use of lower quality 19th century steel.

Also it's my dream to take a pristine beautiful one of kind rare firearm and shoot the living snot out of it in front of horrified safe queen collectors. They should be ashamed of themselves for making their guns feel old and impotent.

I would also love to do a full restoration with modern methods of the same by removing the patina infestation and giving it back a nice spanking like new finish. I am sure they would appreciate it very much that I did not leave them in the dark to rot in ugly dirt patina.
 
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You hit it on the mark Hawg.. I have a Parker Damascus barrel shotgun that was made in 1906 that I have taken many birds with. It was a wall hanger for over 30 years in my parents place, they gave it to me as a Xmas gift, my dad said I'm giving this to you cause I know you'll shoot it. Collector value on it is around 4000. Doesn't stop me from hunting with it. I also have a broomhandle Mauser that gets shot occasionally.
 
Great discussion, sorry I couldn't join back in until now. My question about using another cylinder was the thought that the cylinder on an original could be the weak link if it was in poor condition. If I come across one in safe condition, i would use it, with some slight load reductions and enjoy it. We used to have some old timers at our range that shot the real ones in competition, and they shot some fantastic groups, granted with light loads and cornmeal fillers. I have several repros, and some are nice and some are so-so. Just something about an original....
 
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