Shooting to defend four legged friends

[jgooderh]

Hello All;

I was wondering if anyone has had to use their firearms to defend their pets from varmints. And to any of the LE out there, is it legal (in your jurisdiction).

There was a story on last nights news here in SE Michigan about how coyotes are on the prowl and the Sheriff's Dept was going to set up a program where you can report a sighting and they will come out with some suppressed and scoped weapon (maybe sub sonic 22?) and dispatch the critter for you. They had a story of how a woman witnessed a coyote mangle and take off with her Yorkie or some such toy breed.

My hypothetical is this, you live in a suburban area, you came back from running errands and you are still carrying (if you don't already carry in the house) and you see a coyote or other animal attacking your pet X (cat, toy breed, old dog that can't take care of itself anymore, etc...). Can you blast it?

I'm not talking about a coyote walking down the street or sniffing in a trash can, one actively attacking. If you see one walking around, call Animal Control.

It kinda crosses the line but does it. I think that pets are a very important part of some peoples lives. They may take the responsibility of defending their loved ones to mean their four legged friends too.

Again, hypothetical and academic. I'm not going to rely on anyone's advice or opinion, I'm just curious to what everyone thinks.

Regards.

P.S. there are a lot of threads about shooting animals/pets in SD or in defense of another human, but nothing that I could see about shooting to defend a pet.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have no idea about Michigan.

However, it can be perfectly legal to defend your domestic animals or livestock from predators.

Problems arise when those predators are protected as endangered species. That's when you want to get the hell out of there.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Let's reiterate so this stays open: This is about PROTECTION OF YOUR PET FROM WILD ANIMALS!!!

These kinda threads have a tendency to get hot. Quick.


That said... no. I've never had to shoot another animal to protect one of mine. Came darn close about a week ago, though.

Now, I remember when I was little... watching my dad put a couple of 12GA slugs into a pack of wild dogs that was ripping our next-door neighbors' cat apart, limb from limb.

Cat didn't make it.

Neither did the wild dogs.

The situation sucked all around, but at least we knew it wouldn't happen again.

 

[Just One Shot]

If it's within the city limits, most places have laws against discharging a weapon of any kind. Your best bet is to check with your local Police Dept. and see what they have to offer in the way of advise.

 

[CDH]

My dogs are my kids, and if something or someone is about to attack and seriously harm one of them, then I'm going to defend them.

One of my dogs is a Pit Bull rescue that has turned out to be so sweet that she'll back off from a fight with our other dogs if she can. She has the disposition of a lap dog Yorkie.
While she could easily defend herself against a typical Coyote and tear it apart, I don't think she would due to her disposition, so I am very protective of her to keep her from attacks by stray animals of any type.

And if I had to defend one of my "kids", I'd use whatever weapon I had at hand. It would be nice if all it took is a stick, but whatever, I'm going to defend my kids.

 

[EHL]

If there's a wild animal tearing some poor animal to shreds like that poor cat or even worse, one of my pets;(I have a chihuahua and two cats) you better bet your life that I WILL empty my firearm into that animal in an effort to save the life of my beloved pets. Even if my pet doesn't make it, at least there will be one less foul beast(s) that are stalking other unsuspecting family pets.
I wouldn't limit this reaction to wild animals though. If some trashy neighbors dog or cat (you all know the types-pitbulls, dobermans, rottweilers, etc...) attacked one of my pets while I'm minding my own business walking them, I WILL use my firearm to take care of business. Not my fault that they either train or keep their animal that recklessly attacks anybody or anything that wanders by.
And as far as fines go, I'd gladly pay whatever fine they want to impose on me for saving a life, even if it is for a four legged friend's life. Money is money, life is life.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I will do whatever is a reasonable and necessary for the protection of my family and pets. Sometimes there isn't enough time to call 911 when seconds count you do what you have to do.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Take my advice and use a rake, hoe, or baseball bat. You can get the job done with no legal repercussions.

 

[scotjute]

The trouble with coyotes and most other varmits/etc is that they don't hang around til the police get there with their approved weapons, nor do they cease their attack while you phone the police.

 

[rondog]

Take my advice and use a rake, hoe, or baseball bat. You can get the job done with no legal repercussions.

I don't carry rakes, hoes or baseball bats when I'm walking my beagles. I carry a .45, and that's what I'll use, thank you.

 

[Steve C]

Its highly unlikely you will have a chance to defend your pet if its taken my a coyote or other wild predator as they generally don't hang around with their prey or eat them on the spot. Cats and small dogs are like take out food to larger predators and they will take them to a safe location to consume. By the time you get your gun they'll be long out of your sight and if you manage to track them down they won't hang around waiting for you but you may find remains of your pet.

I've have friends that have lost their pets to coyotes as their homes border an open desert preserve area. The smart cats stay in the house.

Now dog packs or stray dogs will likely hang around as they have no fear of humans. Stray dogs aren't usually killing for food but out of natural aggressiveness or territorial instinct.

 

[rcmodel]

I shot a coiled copper-head with a P3AT, almost out from under my Boxer's nose.
On a hiking trail just inside the city limits.

Also had a mother bobcat come within 30 feet of my dog on the same trail once.
She had a gun pointed at her until she backed off.

No repercussions, and I'd do the same thing all over again.

rc

 

[swiftak]

Coyotes can be shot year round in NH. It doesn't have to be attacking your pet. If I see a coyote in my yard, I'm shooting it. I also live in a pretty rural area. I hear gunshots off in the distance all the time and year round.

 

[CoRoMo]

I've never had to do this, but it happens a lot in Colorado.

I've heard of people having to kill bears, cougars, coyotes, and of course violent domestic dogs that have attacked a pet or livestock.

The authorities usually don't have near the problem with it as the media seems to have.

 

[OregonJohnny]

In the Portland Metro area of Oregon, it's illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits, but the entire state of Oregon has an open season all year long on coyotes. So, killing the coyote might not be illegal but discharging a firearm to do it might be.

If it were me, and I lived within city limits, I was carrying my CCW and my 30 lb. Welsh Corgi was being attacked by a coyote (or any larger animal that was tresspassing on my property), I wouldn't hesitate to use my firearm. Defending my 4-legged best friend's life is worth the repurcussions of discharging a firearm within city limits.

 

[mgkdrgn]

One of the reasons I got a CCW was to protect myself and my dog when we are out for a walk. Most of the critters in the neighborhood are fine, but there are a few rather nasty ones. If they happen to have gotten loose while I'm out with my 10 y/o Golden Retriever, it's likely to be a nasty encounter. There are a pair of dogs down the street that have already killed a neighbors pet when they got loose.

I'll try and shout them off, but if that doesn't work the next "bark" they hear will be from my Glock 26. I load it with frangable ammo for the walks to reduce the chance of any miss from skipping off through the neighborhood.

 

[claiborne]

+1 for the shovel

Awhile back my little lab scared up a rock chuck that jumped on her head like a racoon and the blood started flying. I wacked that chuck with a shovel and put him out of my dogs misery.
On a side note, I would not hesitate to use a .22 rimfire with subsonics on an attacking coyote based on my experience with crows.
In California it is legal to shoot crows if they are harassing your pets, predating you crops, garden or ornamentals or in general, causing a nuisance. It is also against the law to discharge a firearm in city limits where I live unless the situation is covered under another law ie... defending yourself in your home or elsewhere with your legally carried concealed weapon.
I have shot plenty of crows out of a tree in my yard because there were 5-10 of them squaking like crazy and waking me up too early in the morning.
I use .22 subsonic rounds. My neighbors all say thanks.
If a cop ever shows up to talk to me, I'll refer to the California state game regs and hope for the best.

 

[Sato Ord]

Had a friend who killed his neighbors Rotties because they jumped the fence and attacked his German shepherd. He ended up in court and had to pay the vet bill, one of the dogs crawled home and died at the vet's office, plus the cost of both dogs.

It seems that the only way it is legal to shoot a dog that attacks an animal in Columbia County, Florida is if it is attacking, or even harassing, a dairy cow. Apparently the dairy farmers have strong influence with the county commissioners.

The moral of that story is; if a domestic animal comes onto your property and you shoot it make sure you do one of two things. Either make darn sure it's dead and bury it where it won't be found, or call the cops and tell them you just shot your neighbor's dog because it was coming at you and you felt sufficiently threatened. Don't even mention that your dog was involved.

As for wild varmints, I've shot a few that were causing trouble around the farm and ranch in my day, mostly vermin like opossums and raccoons. Once I even had a neighbor who owned two black bears that were prone to getting loose and terrorizing the neighborhood (He claimed he was a trainer and they were performing bears. The only trick I know of that they performed on a regular basis was defeating the lock on their enclosure.). I threatened to shoot them a couple of times because they would come down and mess with my bird dogs and take their food. The old guy who lived up the road beat me to it, and killed one of them. Animal control finally took the other (The man who shot the one used a 12 gauge with a pumpkin ball).

In Colorado, I shot my share of coyotes. I used my model 700 30.06. I don't think I'd want to dispatch a coyote with a .22 subsonic round. They aren't large as far as dogs go, but they are big enough, and can be mean enough, that I want to make sure they go down and stay down.

Coyotes aren't rare or endangered, I have no problem with killing one that gets too comfortable living around inhabited areas, (especially if they harass or attack pets) or those that mess with live stock.

 

[Isher]

I have pretty much always lived in rural areas. It was, and is, SOP to handle problem animals with a weapon, whether whacking a mole with a shovel or using a firearm. However, I will add two, no three, caveats.

1.) If you have a "nuisance" animal rather than a "problem" animal, call Fish & Game first. Classic "nuisance animal", in my case have been several raccoons who were living high of the hog by ransacking my garbage can and compost several times a week. F&G came out and live trapped 'em and hauled 'em off to EBFE to live out their lives wild. Classic "problem" animal was a another raccoon, years earlier, which showed all signs of being rabid. Called the dogs in, shut 'em in the house, grabbed a shotgun and killed the animal. Then called F&G, who came out, put on protective gear, and collected the corpse (it did turn out the animal was rabid). They were highly complimentary of my actions. Note: the only other time I had to deal with a problem animal situation was when I came upon two feral dogs attacking a little gelding on the ranch I was working on. 30-30 put an end to that, pronto, but almost lost the gelding to loss of blood (local horse vet was a miracle worker). The reason I say this is that most of the time - like 90% to 10% - when I've had to put an animal down is because they were either very sick or previously wounded.

2.) If you don't want do wade through pages and pages of indecipherable philadelphia lawyer/legislative legalese, talk to your local Fish & Game and/or Animal Control people about the does and dont's in your area. I have found that they are very knowledgeable, speak English that I can understand, and can fill you in in about ten minutes.

3.) As always, use good judgement prior to committing an act of violence.

One other thing: none of the above (except #3) even remotely applies to urban areas. I would imagine you would get your arse into a major sling if you applied country logic in those areas.


isher

 

[abrink]

Take my advice and use a rake, hoe, or baseball bat. You can get the job done with no legal repercussions.

If those are available... If not I will most likely put a round in the ground and if that doesn't scare the animal off, it's toast. It won't scare mine off, they love gunfire. BTW I'm not recommending warning shots in any defensive situation but I believe it would be OK if it meant defending your domestic animals against wild ones.

That's my opinion and I will probably be criticized in my decision to put a round in the ground before the wild animal in this situation but I will stand behind my decision.

 

[Malamute]

I've shot, stoned, and otherwise killed rattlesnakes that were in close proximity to my dogs. I generally carry a 308 or 30-06 while dog walking, and wouldnt hesitate to protect them from various predatory varmints. One local lady had 2 Mt Lions stalk her and her dogs recently. That was a short distance from where I often walk. City limits arent an issue. I'm a little ways out of them. Maybe 30 minutes. At 65 mph.

 

[twoclones]

While it is legal to kill a domestic dog for molesting livestock, ranchers know the best policy is
"Shoot fast, bury deep, don't talk." The same might apply to killing a wild predator in defense of your pet. At least within city limits.

 

[moooose102]

well, first, there is the state wide firearm discharging (safety) rule is 150 yards (see DNR firearms rules and regulations). if there is a building within 150 yards, you simply can not shoot a firearm (except if it your own outbuilding). so baiscly, if you even live in the suburbs, you really can not even fire a pelet gun (considered a firearm in mich) within those limits. and of course, if your city (or township) has other restrictions, those apply also. the same would apply to a motor vehicle if you were near a road. now, if you live out in the country...... there, nobody would say anything anyway. now, if it was attacking your kids, i shure wouldn't worry about ANY dumb law. i would rather explain it to a jury of my peers if it ever got that far (which i really doubt it would). but if you endanger another persons life (even if it is only theroetical) for your puppy, i think you are "going to be in a heap of trouble boy"! isn't gustoppo michigan wonderful!?

 

[Big Bill]

There's always a chance that a Coyote attacking in a suburban area may have rabies. That should always be taken into consideration.

 

[Sport45]

My lab is gone now (old age), but I remember seeing him fight. There's no way I could've taken a shot into a mess like that without possibly hitting him. I always just waded in with a few kicks and separated them.