Shooting to defend four legged friends
- Thread starter jgooderh
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I watched my 120lb. Rottwieler tear up a coyote that tried to lure it out of camp. At no point did I think intervention on m part was necessary. I also saw some wild dogs tear my friends cat apart in the city limits, called animal control and it was 28 hrs. before they sent an officer out.
If I were going to discharge a firearm in a populated area when human life is NOT in danger I would want some time to carefully think out a safe firing lane, to consider my firearm choices (rifle/rimfire/shotgun/pistol) and ammunition selection (frangible/shot size/etc.) and probably to don hearing & eye protection.
The idea of pulling out a carry pistol and blasting away at a coyote in a backyard is not an appealing one to me. Where I live (typical suburbia), such an action would be considerable danger. Not only to people, but also to the pets in other nearby back yards.
The idea of pulling out a carry pistol and blasting away at a coyote in a backyard is not an appealing one to me. Where I live (typical suburbia), such an action would be considerable danger. Not only to people, but also to the pets in other nearby back yards.
In my area we have leash laws. Most urban and suburban areas do. I walk my dogs on a 6 foot chain leash. If another animal comes within 6 feet of me and attacks, its either getting a swift kick or a 38 slug. I'll know which by the time it reaches me.
A vicious animal attacking within 6 feet will meet anyones definition of "fear of imminent bodily injury or death."
A vicious animal attacking within 6 feet will meet anyones definition of "fear of imminent bodily injury or death."
I wouldn't even think twice. Godwilling, I wouldn't hit my dog and kill the threat. Nobody has to know too much. Just load up the dead threat, take a trip down the road and toss it in some bushes. Of course, "suburban" where I live means a house every 2-300 yards. Either way, I think the cops would be understanding in a situation like that.
Sato Ord
Member
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I don't advocate just pulling out your pistol and blasting holes in the varmint that comes at Fido within city limits. Though I don't recommend getting between your dog and another animal. I've picked up plenty of people who needed lots of stitches for that reason when I worked on the big orange and white bus.
I assumed that since we were talking about wild animals, we were talking about out in the country, though with encroachment on wild lands by cities the two are not mutually exclusive (I've seen wild bob cats running loose in Gainesville, Florida, and they weren't rabid. The city just butts up to the woods in certain areas and it's easier to scavenge out of garbage cans and steal pet food than hunt.).
I now live in a city and would only use my weapon if that was my only choice, and I knew darn well where the bullet is going after it goes through the attacking wild animal/vicious dog that attacks my dog.
Also, remember, in the eyes of the law I have a bit more right to defend my dog than most people because she's a service dog. I can not only defend her from the neighbor's uncontrolled pet, I can have the neighbor arrested on a third degree felony if they allow their vicious animal to attack my Great Dane even through neglect rather than malice. Service dogs are not pets under the law and have special protections in place in Florida because of their function.
I assumed that since we were talking about wild animals, we were talking about out in the country, though with encroachment on wild lands by cities the two are not mutually exclusive (I've seen wild bob cats running loose in Gainesville, Florida, and they weren't rabid. The city just butts up to the woods in certain areas and it's easier to scavenge out of garbage cans and steal pet food than hunt.).
I now live in a city and would only use my weapon if that was my only choice, and I knew darn well where the bullet is going after it goes through the attacking wild animal/vicious dog that attacks my dog.
Also, remember, in the eyes of the law I have a bit more right to defend my dog than most people because she's a service dog. I can not only defend her from the neighbor's uncontrolled pet, I can have the neighbor arrested on a third degree felony if they allow their vicious animal to attack my Great Dane even through neglect rather than malice. Service dogs are not pets under the law and have special protections in place in Florida because of their function.
HoosierQ
Member
When I was a kid, I was so proud of my dad who shot a wild dog at about 100yards who was chasing our calves in calving season. He made this 100 yard shot with his (now my) Universal M1 Carbine. Now for many of you all, hitting a trotting dog at 100 yards with iron sights isn't going to be a tremendous challenge. However for my old man, RIP, this was like the best shot he ever made in his entire life (total "city guy" until he was about 40). He was proud too. One of those father son moments you know.
As far as legal, we were on our property shooting a wild dog not a wolf or something on public land. People keep.
Had a bunch of 'coon hounds massacre all of our kittens one night hooked up to a bunch of hunters hunting on our land without permission. My dad had the Universal in hand that night as well but he knew the relative value of a trained hunting dog vs a bunch of kittens. He was extremely mad and locked those dogs in our milk house with all the dead kittens and made the hunters come up and ask for the dogs back and told them to stay off the property. He wisely had the gun pointed at the ground through it all...the hunters had their guns in hand as well but cool heads prevailed. Had he shot one of those dogs, there'd been trouble.
As far as legal, we were on our property shooting a wild dog not a wolf or something on public land. People keep.
Had a bunch of 'coon hounds massacre all of our kittens one night hooked up to a bunch of hunters hunting on our land without permission. My dad had the Universal in hand that night as well but he knew the relative value of a trained hunting dog vs a bunch of kittens. He was extremely mad and locked those dogs in our milk house with all the dead kittens and made the hunters come up and ask for the dogs back and told them to stay off the property. He wisely had the gun pointed at the ground through it all...the hunters had their guns in hand as well but cool heads prevailed. Had he shot one of those dogs, there'd been trouble.
Norinco982lover
Member
I would not hesitate to shoot a "wild" dog attacking my dog on my property.
My pure-bred german shepherd was attacked years ago when I was about 12 by two large labs owned by my neighbor. I heard them fighting and grabbed my bb pistol (all I had) and ran outside and scared them off. Unfortunately, they had bit my dog's foot clear thru to her artery and she was bleeding to death. My dad threw her in the back of the car and we drove down to the vet and he fixed her up for a couple hundred bucks.
The neighbor and his wife drove over to our house later that day on their four wheeler and asked about our dog because "their dog had blood on its face." We said heck yes your dog jumped ours and it better not happen again.
My pure-bred german shepherd was attacked years ago when I was about 12 by two large labs owned by my neighbor. I heard them fighting and grabbed my bb pistol (all I had) and ran outside and scared them off. Unfortunately, they had bit my dog's foot clear thru to her artery and she was bleeding to death. My dad threw her in the back of the car and we drove down to the vet and he fixed her up for a couple hundred bucks.
The neighbor and his wife drove over to our house later that day on their four wheeler and asked about our dog because "their dog had blood on its face." We said heck yes your dog jumped ours and it better not happen again.
Zundfolge
Member
Actually the idea of pulling out a carry pistol and blasting away at a guy with a gun trying to rob me in a parking lot isn't really "an appealing one to me" either.
I live a couple blocks from Garden of the Gods, we see LOTS of wildlife in our neighborhood and neighbors have reported having cats taken by coyotes. I wouldn't hesitate to kill one in my yard if my dog was threatened but I would probably tell the police I felt personally threatened when I shot it (and I probably would since I'd be swooping in to scoop up the dog ... he's just a pup ya know).
Most cities have laws against discharging a firearm within the city limits, but most also make exception for self defense shootings.
But these things vary WILDLY from state to state (heck, city to city) so you might want to pose the question to the local police (or DAs office, or consult the family lawyer if you have one) and see what they say. If you have a CCW they should understand why you're asking such questions.
I live right next door to my parents small farm. They have lots of cats & chickens which are often targets of Coyotes, Fox, raccoons...etc. Killing predators off my back porch has become a hobby during the summer. SKS with winchester soft points for the Coyotes (they tend to keep their distance from the house making for longer shots) and 12ga 00 buck for the Raccoons and Foxes.
cassandrasdaddy
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While she could easily defend herself against a typical Coyote and tear it apart, I don't think she would due to her disposition,
she might surprise you i have a hound who is such a sissy she submits to cats but in a fight shes a different story. surprised me as well as the other dog.
i have a lab husky who killed yotes when she was younger but she had 2 other dogs to help run em down. and you would never think minnie mouse would hurt a fly.
i use plastic buckshot to breqak up dog fights after getting gnawed a few times. works good no fatalities but if i had to i could put the muzzle on an animal and end it forever
she might surprise you i have a hound who is such a sissy she submits to cats but in a fight shes a different story. surprised me as well as the other dog.
i have a lab husky who killed yotes when she was younger but she had 2 other dogs to help run em down. and you would never think minnie mouse would hurt a fly.
i use plastic buckshot to breqak up dog fights after getting gnawed a few times. works good no fatalities but if i had to i could put the muzzle on an animal and end it forever
Zundfolge
Member
If your property is open and close to undeveloped land, the coyotes will sometimes send a smaller, weaker member of the pack out to lure your dog away from the house then the rest of them pounce.
Another thing to consider is the exposure to disease ... if a coyote is gnawing on your dog he's probably exposing your dog to all sorts of unpleasant little microbes.
Another thing to consider is the exposure to disease ... if a coyote is gnawing on your dog he's probably exposing your dog to all sorts of unpleasant little microbes.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
I have shot a wild dog for "sniffin" round where he shouldn't be, namely my best girl when she's in season ! There are enough mutts to go around, and then some .
WarHall
Member
Maybe I'm just a little jaded -
Love that line in a 'South Park' episode when they took the boys hunting -"They were coming right for me!"
Heck, I'd shoot 'em just for showing up. Lost all my chickens save one to 'pet' cats this last year - even though I've done all I can except locking them up in the garage. All I have left is one really 'cocky' rooster and i don't think they mess with him.
I have one of those break-barrel Gamos with the 'raptor' loads, 1200 FPS and has a flashlight and laser on it _ pic -
(Behind the .22) And regularly go out in the yard with it. Yes, I had a neighbor call it in on me, the PD showed up and I told them what I was doing, They played a round of good cop - bad cop with me and left. Not much there. I don't really want them to show up again, that might start a 'pattern', I'm sure. Discretion is always better.
Love that line in a 'South Park' episode when they took the boys hunting -"They were coming right for me!"
Heck, I'd shoot 'em just for showing up. Lost all my chickens save one to 'pet' cats this last year - even though I've done all I can except locking them up in the garage. All I have left is one really 'cocky' rooster and i don't think they mess with him.
I have one of those break-barrel Gamos with the 'raptor' loads, 1200 FPS and has a flashlight and laser on it _ pic -
(Behind the .22) And regularly go out in the yard with it. Yes, I had a neighbor call it in on me, the PD showed up and I told them what I was doing, They played a round of good cop - bad cop with me and left. Not much there. I don't really want them to show up again, that might start a 'pattern', I'm sure. Discretion is always better.
I would, and have. The latest was a female coyote which was trying to lure my dogs out. She was so bold, she didn't leave when my wife called the dogs back, and she was only 100 yards away.
Unfortunately for her, she collided with a 100 gr Ballistic Tip going 3300 fps a few seconds later.
Another time, I had a coyote chasing my 35 lb Blue Heeler. I shot at it with my Mini 14, but missed. (I really need to take that scope off and put a red dot on it.)
I got this picture about a week ago with a StealthCam about a half mile from the house: Ignore the date and time on the picture, I had changed batteries and forgot to reset them.
Unfortunately for her, she collided with a 100 gr Ballistic Tip going 3300 fps a few seconds later.
Another time, I had a coyote chasing my 35 lb Blue Heeler. I shot at it with my Mini 14, but missed. (I really need to take that scope off and put a red dot on it.)
I got this picture about a week ago with a StealthCam about a half mile from the house: Ignore the date and time on the picture, I had changed batteries and forgot to reset them.
coloradokevin
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I didn't read all of the other replies, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned. But, I recall an incident here in CO where someone shot either a Mt Lion or a coyote when it attacked his dog. He ended up being fined for something along the lines of destruction of wildlife.
I wish I could find the story right now, but I remember being bothered by the outcome at the time. It was also noteworthy to mention that it appeared that these issues would not have applied if the "pet" was livestock!
Anyway, I guess you just have to articulate why you felt that the mountain lion was a threat to you (who was attached to the dog on a 6ft leash --- seems reasonable to me).
I wish I could find the story right now, but I remember being bothered by the outcome at the time. It was also noteworthy to mention that it appeared that these issues would not have applied if the "pet" was livestock!
Anyway, I guess you just have to articulate why you felt that the mountain lion was a threat to you (who was attached to the dog on a 6ft leash --- seems reasonable to me).
CentralTexas
Member
Okay, I'll swing at it
With very minor exceptions in the USA, domestic pets are considered personal property. If your state allows you to discharge your weapon to protect personal property....
Okay, that said, a lose and threatening dog is charging your poodle. Why would you not be worried you may be injured or killed also? SO then you are in fear for your life and protecting yourself if you use your weapon.
I think you would stand a good chance of being arrested or charged under "endangering children" type of violation if you say you were defending your dog. If you are defending yourself it is less likely Officer Stoneheart will arrest you I think...
With very minor exceptions in the USA, domestic pets are considered personal property. If your state allows you to discharge your weapon to protect personal property....
Okay, that said, a lose and threatening dog is charging your poodle. Why would you not be worried you may be injured or killed also? SO then you are in fear for your life and protecting yourself if you use your weapon.
I think you would stand a good chance of being arrested or charged under "endangering children" type of violation if you say you were defending your dog. If you are defending yourself it is less likely Officer Stoneheart will arrest you I think...
cassandrasdaddy
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what kinda chickens are getting nailed by cats? or maybe i should ask what kinda cats?
Officers'Wife
Member
I would have to take the attitude in an animal would attack and/or kill a pet animal heavy with human scent the odds are good that it would attack one of my children.
When I lived on the farm a pack of coyote dogs (hybrid between coyotes and domestic dogs) was slinking towards my then five day old colt and it's mother. They were watching the mare, they should have been paying attention to my grandfather and his Garand.
When I lived on the farm a pack of coyote dogs (hybrid between coyotes and domestic dogs) was slinking towards my then five day old colt and it's mother. They were watching the mare, they should have been paying attention to my grandfather and his Garand.
I would've shot those dogs (maybe not all of them). As far as those trespassing hunters go, I'd have made them leave their guns behind or they would have had some serious firepower aimed in their direction. There's no way I would allow some trespassing jerks to intimidate me on MY freaking property!!
They should be the ones with hat in hand, to come and apologize for their mutts attacking my animals.King Gidora,
1 I agree except the part about pits should be chained and caged. You should spend some time with them most are sweet dogs
2 just not true lots of types of dogs can kill coyotes, they are not very large and do not always hunt in packs
3 wrong again, snakebites are actually MORE toxic to dogs(smaller wt) copperhead venom is not that potent(still bad but nothing like pit vipers)
4 I agree, except about rabies vaccination, it has proven very reliable for animals and humans, further being bit by a rabid animal in no way gaurntees infection(in fact if you wash with soap the odds are amazingly in your favor)
6 You must have some coons in OH
Please dont take this as a personal attack but I wanted to correct your errors(cept for 1 that is just my personal opinion )
1 I agree except the part about pits should be chained and caged. You should spend some time with them most are sweet dogs
2 just not true lots of types of dogs can kill coyotes, they are not very large and do not always hunt in packs
3 wrong again, snakebites are actually MORE toxic to dogs(smaller wt) copperhead venom is not that potent(still bad but nothing like pit vipers)
4 I agree, except about rabies vaccination, it has proven very reliable for animals and humans, further being bit by a rabid animal in no way gaurntees infection(in fact if you wash with soap the odds are amazingly in your favor)
6 You must have some coons in OH
Please dont take this as a personal attack but I wanted to correct your errors(cept for 1 that is just my personal opinion
)
76shuvlinoff
Member
I like that!
I live in the country (SW Michigan) with dogs in the house, cats and horses in the barn and pastures. I deal with woodchucks and at worst feral dogs and coyotes. I can dispatch most issues with my 22lr or a pistol but sometimes you just gotta love a bit bigger levergun. When it comes to protecting one of MY animals on MY property (or a public thoroughfare ) I do not hesitate to do so.
fireman 9731
Member
I haven't and never would hesitate to defend my dogs,
luckily I don't live in a city so I don't have to worry about the legality of it.
In many situations a single warning shot will quickly end just about any dog fight. But if the need arises, I will do whatever it takes to protect my dogs. That being said, I'm in no hurry to kill a known neighbors dog, as I would hope that they would provide my dog the same discretion.
I love my dogs as much as my guns!
luckily I don't live in a city so I don't have to worry about the legality of it.
In many situations a single warning shot will quickly end just about any dog fight. But if the need arises, I will do whatever it takes to protect my dogs. That being said, I'm in no hurry to kill a known neighbors dog, as I would hope that they would provide my dog the same discretion.
I love my dogs as much as my guns!
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