Shot placement for deer

[Citadel99]

So, someone said that this topic was a different thread all together. Here it is. What's the optimal shot placement for deer. All the one's I've taken have been about two inches past the shoulder. I've heard neck shot's the way to go. I've heard shoulder shots are the way to go.

What say you?

Mark

 

[Al Thompson]

Personally, I like to break the shoulder on the way in or out, depending on target attitude.

Neck shots can be very tricky as the spine is not where most folks think it is. You also need to be fairly close to essentially hit a target that's about the same size as a 2x2 piece of wood. I've had to help track too many deer for the neck shot to go in my bag of tricks.

 

[Diggler]

I shoot archery now, so it's always behind the shoulder for me.

When I hunted with a rifle, if it was a trophy buck I'd follow the leg bone up into the shoulder with the crosshairs and break the shoulder(s). That puts them down on the spot. Other deer, behind the shoulder. They both kill just as effectively, it's just that I'm willing to ruin a little more meat on a trophy buck to make sure the guy just over the hill doesn't get him while he's bleeding out. Besides, I hate boning out the front shoulder!

 

[Iain]

I've a question - assuming an absolutely perfect shot, what location on the deer will kill them quickest?

Another question - a lot of you shoot for the shoulder, if you get it right I read it means they can't disappear over the hill, but how long does a typical shoulder shot take to kill? I assume that if you 'anchor' them as best as possible then the kill will probably be quicker than a slight miss on a location that allows the deer to run several hundred yards and require tracking.

You'll have to excuse the newbie questions, if you look over there

<----

you'll see partly why I have no idea about such things.

 

[Diggler]

Assuming a perfect shot, right between the ear and the eye will kill them instantly. But you can't assume a perfect shot, and there's too much of a chance that you'll blow the jaw off and the deer will die slowly of starvation.

Any shot that hits heart/lung will kill in about the same time whether it breaks bone or not. Unfortunately, I once had a deer jump the string with my bow... it ducked, and the arrow severed the spine. It could have lived for hours like that, but it couldn't move. I went directly up to it, and put another arrow through both lungs. I was amazed at how quickly it expired... it wasn't even 10 or 15 seconds between the shot and the eyes glazing over. And that was with a bow, with no shocking power like a high-powered rifle. Just remember, a deer can run a long ways in 10 or 15 seconds though. I don't think the actual kill will be any quicker if you shoot the shoulder, but the immobilization of the deer will be quicker for sure.

The heart/lung area is about 8" across, about the size of a paper plate. Any shot in there (without breaking the shoulder) with a rifle should drop the deer within 100 yards, probably within 50 yards.

So, St. Johns, are you planning a trip across the pond to hunt deer anytime soon?

 

[Sarge111]

Where the shoulder...

meets the spine-

http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html

Rest of the story-

http://thesixgunjournal.com/hndgn4dr.htm

 

[critter]

Here is my favorite DRT (dead right there) shot. It will kill 'em so dead, they will 'bounce' when they hit the ground-usually. I use it for my 30-30 contender handgun when I can wait till I get the shot I want.

I wait for a complete broadside shot. Follow the leg up into the body only about 3-4". The shot will break the near side leg/lower shoulder and the bullet should hit the heart with bone fragments hitting heart, lungs, etc. (The heart lies LOW in a deer's chest.) Heart don't work, lungs won't work, one or both front legs won't work-DRT!

Believe me, that shot will put 'em down and right now and for keeps! Really little shoulder meat damage cause it is so low.

 

[Coltdriver]

I recently acquired a copy of P.O. Ackleys Volume I and II books. They cover a wide variety of topics and although the information is a little dated, (the books were written in 1962) the majority of the issues and concepts are identical to what we deal with today.

There are a couple of chapters guest written by some of the worlds most experienced hunters. Their real life field experience with everything from rebok to buffalo to elephant is fascinating.

The conclusion of of these guest authors is this. The only thing that "knocks down" an animal is a disruption of the nervous system either through direct hit of the nervous system or via disruption from hydrostatic shock. The thing that kills the animal is bleeding out and the most reliable way to do this is via lungs or heart lung system.

So it is interesting to learn from these hunters that their experience confirms and almost makes simple what should be pretty obvious. They preferred a shot that would make the animal bleed out as opposed to the less certain shot required to disrupt the central nervous system. Learning the animals anatomy and getting a good heart lung shot turns out to be a key element in relatively quick clean kills.

 

[45crittergitter]

critter is right, but it really messes up the shoulder meat. Neck moves way too much, and lots of non-vital stuff there. Stay in the chest. Been there, done that....

 

[mete]

Broadside shot I try to minimize meat loss so it's a lung shot. So what if they go 50 yds . It helps bleed them out and if you shoot high you hit the spine, low the heart , forward the shoulder . Head shots ? I saw a deer that had it's jaw broken that way, he starved to death. BTW last year I shot my deer aiming for the lungs as usual, he ran 50 yds as usual. But I found the 45-70 bullet had really smashed the shoulder first then went through the lungs but he still went the 50 yds !!

 

[priv8ter]

Yeah, but...

For deer, this is fine. But...on an Elk...I have seen Elk cover A LOT of ground after a lung shot. And, the woods being as crowded as they are now-a-days, any elk that runs more than 100 yards is likely to have someone else put a bullet in it also, and then you get arguments over who actually had the kill shot.

That being said, it depends on what caliber I am using. If I am using a deer/elk gun(7mm Magnum, .30-06) with good bullets, then I'll go for the shoulder. Like most guys, I'm willing to risk some meat damage, for the reward of dropping the deer right there.

But, if I found myself looking at a large Eastern Washington Mulie, with say, a .243, well, I'm going to do all I can to miss that shoulder.

Now, try this one on for size....

A guy I used to hunt with stated that he ALWAYS aimed for a gut shot with his first shot.

His theory was he had seen elk or deer run with shoulder or chest shots, but every time he gut shot one, it dropped and balled up for a second before running off. And, THIS gave him a chance to put in a good second shot.

Let me tell you, helping him clean an elk was not much fun.

greg

 

[Newt]

I'm surprised how many say they go for the dead on shoulder shots. I've never really thought about it that much, but that would break 'em down in the "running gears". I've always gone for the heart/lung shot. I had one run a pretty good ways one time on a single-lunger, but he was found several hundred hard-tracking yards later. Oh, and BTW, I think I may start going for the shoulder (anchor) shot. Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Kurt S.]

Citadel99, I suggested the separate thread and posted my ideas here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76447 .

 

[JShirley]

Shoulder or just behind and slightly lower.

John

 

[longrifleman]

Cross hairs just behind the front leg for broadside. The farthest I've ever had a heart/lung shot go is about a 100 yds. Most will drop within 50 yds.

I shot a fair sized 10 pt buck last season looking at me with my muzzleloader (that longrifle thing) and the ball went through the right lung and lodged under the skin on his left flank with no exit wound. He went about 30 yds. That was a good thing as it was dark and he left no blood trail at all.

Never cared for head/neck shots. They will work but deer are way to nervous and any movement and you have a wounded deer that will go a long ways.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I shoot them just a little higher than critter suggests. But only because I use hardcast in pistol. I don't expect any expansion or fragmentation, in fact don't want it. Usually breaks both front shoulders, anchored right there, very little meat damage, just a hole in and out. They usually bleed out within 30 seconds.

 

[Mannlicher]

I have taken a fair number of deer, both bucks and does. My favorite shot is a neck shot, just above where the neck meets the body. I have never had a deer so shot, go any distance at all.
The other shot I like is that white patch on the throat. It stands out, almost like a target.
The more you study deer anatomy, the easier it is to pick your shot. When you are dressing that deer, take a good look at the location of all the 'parts'. Visualize how different shots will enter, and where their path will take them. Shock may knock a deer down, but blood loss is the sure killer.

 

[labgrade]

Depends on how close/what shot you have, but A #1 best shot is always a broadside & just aft of the shoulder-point.

It's about 1/3 up from the chest & will transit the heart & both lungs.

Soe catridges dropm 'em in their tacks & others tend to allow them to run - sometimes 100 yards or more (I've seen both - with same-same hits).

No matter.

The critter is dead in its tracks.

 

[MeekandMild]

The only thing that "knocks down" an animal is a disruption of the nervous system

I don't believe that. A big bullet going slow is like hitting the deer with a 2x4. It will knock the critter down just with the force of its passage.

I have debated with myself as to whether the base of the neck or the middle of the chest is more humane.

 

[Art Eatman]

If I'm sure of the hit, I'll go for a neck shot. Otherwise, the heart/lung shot.

I've yet to hit a deer in the neck that ever went anywhere. The majority were DRT and the others were paralyzed.

Art

 

[Coltdriver]

Meek and Mild,

I appreciate all the different points of view we get here and most of the hunters here have more experience that I do.

That being said there is a law of physics that says for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The rule holds with rifles. The "punch" felt by a bullet is no greater than the recoil produced by the shot going off. That assumes it does not pass through and leave some energy to be spent on the ground.

So you may be right, I have never had the guts to shoot a heavily loaded 45/70 for example.

At the same time, these fellows that wrote the articles for P.O. Ackley were adamant that no bullet from any sized rifle actually "knocked over" a large game animal.

They did cite nervous system disruption from the hydro static shock of a very high speed bullet as a reason for dropping an animal with a shot that appeared to be some distance from a critical central nervous system area of the animal.

In any case I am hoping to take an antelope this fall and have decided to go for a heart lung shot as the possibility of a good neck shot is fairly remote for me.

 

[J. Garand]

I shoot a 300 win mag.. I prefer shoulder shots but have taken several others. the main thing is i never shoot until i know i will kill the deer. i shoot a ruger #1 so there is no second chance. I don,t believe in them. the range and angle are yours to determine. if you work with your rifle you know what you can and cant do. i never have to chase deer, and i have NEVER wounded one. I do not like people that tell me they shoot "at" deer. its your shot; live with it. you guys should try hunting the number one ruger, or next season just put one round in your deer gun. Thats an experiment you will enjoy.
I really like blackpowder. the 50 cal i shoot puts deer straight down. And again it is only one shot.

 

[smokemaker]

I've been heavy into the BP/ML thing of late, and I have to say alot of it depends on what type of bullet you use with muzzleloaders. If I'm using a traditional gun with roundballs or an inline with saboted pistol bullets (or special purpose ML bullets like the Hornady SST's, my new favorite) I'll go right behind the crease of leg and ribs. But a hard cast bullet in a sabot, or a heavy conical, I'll try to break the shoulder because those heavy, slow moving conicals have alot of energy and pentration, and they just whistle through the vitals on a deer without much upset if they don't meet something heavy like bone. Sure the deer will die, but in the woods up here in NY, a 200 yard run by a shot whitetail may have him two property owners away before he piles up, and that's not always a good thing.

There's my $.02

 

[10ptr]

I hunt quite a bit on state land here in CT, where you have to use a shotgun. With a 12 ga. slug, it doesn't much matter where you hit 'em, they just fall like a ton of bricks. If you have never shot a deer with a 12 ga., try it some time just for the experience. You won't beleive your eyes.

 

[JShirley]

I disagree. I killed two deer with 12 GA slugs this year. One was moving at about 25 meters, and I hit him too far back.

A deer "hit anywhere" with a slug will not collapse and die instantly. ( I tracked this deer for several hours until I put that tough SOB down with a Glock 29.) OTOH, one shot just behind the head will. If I had hit him with my .35 Whelen, you're right: he wouldn't have gone anywhere (not to mention that the faster speed would have put the bullet where I wanted to hit him).

J. Garand:

Try ambushing a deer convoy with a single-shot. Good luck. I want to be sporting and all that, but I knocked down two deer at a time more than once this year.

John