Shotgun in TX Shooting

[giggitygiggity]

I have been reading articles about the Texas shooting and the articles note that the shooter used a sawed off shotgun and a pistol. I am curious about the specifics of the weapons as they are not the guns that the gun grabbers like to see used in school shootings (AR-type rifles with magazines greater than 10 rounds).

In particular, I would love to know whether the sawed off shotgun was sawed off short enough that it met classification as a short-barreled rifle as per the NFA and whether the perp's father or a trust that he/his father were part of had received an NFA tax stamp. If so, then I am confused because the media and Democrats tell me that gun laws will stop bad people from doing bad things and that we need more of them. Additionally, what are Texas laws with respect to concealed carry as the articles mention he concealed his weapons under a trench coat.

Maybe the shotgun was not an SBS and maybe if it was, it was properly registered under the NFA. Maybe Texas laws permit 17 year olds to conceal carry. However, I doubt it. My point is that murdering people in and of itself is illegal. Constructing a SBS without ATF approval is illegal. Conceal carrying when not in possession of a permit or allowed by the law is illegal. Why would any person with half a brain think that if new laws are created that they will be followed? It makes no sense.

 

[hso]

We don't know what "sawed off shotgun" means in this context. It was supposedly an 870 pump so the stock could have been sawed off or the barrel or both. It could have even been the Tac-14 870 and called "sawed off" for want of a better description.

There's no indication yet that the father has any NFA item such as an SBS (short barreld shotgun) and it would be trivial to saw off the stock past the grip if the murderer chose to. It would only be slightly more difficult to cut the barrel down.

As to the value of new laws restricting firearms...we know they're not going to do anything, but people can focus on THINGS easier than what motivated the murder to kill their classmates and how to address that challenging problem. Bullying, mental health, lack of engagement with troubled youth, etc. are tough problems.

 

[lemaymiami]

Remember this (if you remember nothing else about press reports of any bad incident....) - nothing I was ever involved with during a 22 year stint on the street as a young - then not so young cop, was ever reported accurately. I don't mean they didn't spell the names right, I mean nothing about any critical incident that I was personally involved in was ever reported accurately....

Before I come to any conclusions about the actual weapons used by this sorry young man - I'd want to see them for myself. Many folks call a standard riot gun (basic 12ga. 18" barrel shotgun meant for close quarter confrontations) a "sawed off shotgun" so until we see the weapons involved or actually get to read an approved police report of the incident (or a charging sheet if it's available) you just can't be certain what was involved.

I'm sure we'll learn more than we ever wanted to know about this incident in the days and weeks to come. Funny thing, as a school boy all the way until I came out of high school in 1966 there was never the first incident of this kind that I ever heard of. The first one was also in Texas - and happened during 1966 - the so-called Texas Tower mass killing. Don't know what to say about these kinds of terrible incidents except that they seem to be the dark side of our "modern" world. Wish it weren't so...

 

[MedWheeler]

Inaccuracy does indeed rule in reporting. I'm still waiting to find out what the handgun was. At first, it was a .38 caliber revolver. Then, it was a "semi-automatic pistol." Then, it was a ."38 caliber pistol." I think I've even heard "38 caliber semi-automatic pistol."

 

[bikemutt]

Remember this (if you remember nothing else about press reports of any bad incident....) - nothing I was ever involved with during a 22 year stint on the street as a young - then not so young cop, was ever reported accurately. I don't mean they didn't spell the names right, I mean nothing about any critical incident that I was personally involved in was ever reported accurately....

This has been my observation as well, totally unrelated to LE, just life in general. I never really knew what to call the media's apparent disregard for accuracy; since then I've chalked it up to agenda and laziness.

 

[MidRoad]

Inaccuracy does indeed rule in reporting. I'm still waiting to find out what the handgun was. At first, it was a .38 caliber revolver. Then, it was a "semi-automatic pistol." Then, it was a ."38 caliber pistol." I think I've even heard "38 caliber semi-automatic pistol."

Correct term is semi-automatic assault revolver

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Remember this (if you remember nothing else about press reports of any bad incident....) - nothing I was ever involved with during a 22 year stint on the street as a young - then not so young cop, was ever reported accurately. I don't mean they didn't spell the names right, I mean nothing about any critical incident that I was personally involved in was ever reported accurately....

Before I come to any conclusions about the actual weapons used by this sorry young man - I'd want to see them for myself. Many folks call a standard riot gun (basic 12ga. 18" barrel shotgun meant for close quarter confrontations) a "sawed off shotgun" so until we see the weapons involved or actually get to read an approved police report of the incident (or a charging sheet if it's available) you just can't be certain what was involved.

I'm sure we'll learn more than we ever wanted to know about this incident in the days and weeks to come. Funny thing, as a school boy all the way until I came out of high school in 1966 there was never the first incident of this kind that I ever heard of. The first one was also in Texas - and happened during 1966 - the so-called Texas Tower mass killing. Don't know what to say about these kinds of terrible incidents except that they seem to be the dark side of our "modern" world. Wish it weren't so...

Thank you

Great points

I was thinking about your last point yesterday

Do you think the combination of crazy rules aimed to stop bullying which I think only aid the bullies and kids who are too young playing violent video games may be factors in these shootings?

Maybe allowing kids to fight back when it’s justified, punishing based on the incident and not based on zero tolerance would help. Stopping young kids playing violent video games is tougher and I’m not sure how to stop it.

Of course the press never reports thes

 

[MedWheeler]

Bones741 writes:

Correct term is semi-automatic assault revolver.

You're getting closer, but I believe it's "fully semi-automatic assault revolver."

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Apparently the firearms in question belonged to his father. So it’s going to be incredibly difficult to figure out if legally owned, illegally modified, whatever.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Bones741 writes:



You're getting closer, but I believe it's "fully semi-automatic assault revolver."

Shouldn’t that be “ FULL fully semi-automatic assault revolver” ?

Sorry couldn’t resist after the bs reporters and their ninsense

 

[Swifty Morgan]

The long gun was originally an AR-15, but at some point after the killings, it turned into a shotgun. I know this because I read it in news stories.

 

[George P]

Don't forget to add the silencer on the end of that revolver

 

[ErictheRed]

The long gun was originally an AR-15, but at some point after the killings, it turned into a shotgun. I know this because I read it in news stories.

Every article I saw yesterday was initially reporting an AR as the weapon used. They immediately jumped on that being the culprit

 

[Deanimator]

There's no indication yet that the father has any NFA item such as an SBS (short barreld shotgun) and it would be trivial to saw off the stock past the grip if the murderer chose to

Ban saws!

I've actually had anti-gun cultists (deranged Luddites, really) tell me that unlicensed possession of MACHINE TOOLS should be BANNED so that people can't make guns.

 

[loose noose]

I know CNN reported the use of an AR-15 shortly after I heard from the Sheriff that the weapons used were a "shotgun and a revolver" keep it up there CNN with your fake reporting.

 

[WestKentucky]

I don't mean they didn't spell the names right, I mean nothing about any critical incident that I was personally involved in was ever reported accurately....

Why miss an opportunity to exaggerate... prime example, this massive volcanic eruption that has recently been devastating Hawaii and the island is gonna blow up yadda yadda...people are still playing golf a few miles away and the lava has pretty much gone through one neighborhood (like a tornado in a trailer park). Sure it’s an interesting story if reported accurately, but it’s sensational news if the whole island is being obliterated.

 

[George Dickel]

One of the reports I heard said that an AR 15 style rifle was used. What is an AR 15 style rifle?

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Ban saws!

I've actually had anti-gun cultists (deranged Luddites, really) tell me that unlicensed possession of MACHINE TOOLS should be BANNED so that people can't make guns.

I’ve seen all sorts of them attacking us ammosexuals.
You know the same people who attack anyone else for name calling.
Several said that the UKs gun laws were working and the knife attacks there were exaggerated and that since there were no more school shootings we should eliminate the 2nd Amendment

I’ve come to the conclusion there’s no reasoning with these “people”
What I can’t figure out is how we limit the impact of their stupidity as many are ready to vote to get rid of our rights

 

[JohnKSa]

Additionally, what are Texas laws with respect to concealed carry as the articles mention he concealed his weapons under a trench coat.

Shotgun: There are essentially no TX state laws that would restrict the carrying or concealment of legally possessed long guns. There is one locality which has a law about the open carry of long guns, however that law is in conflict with the TX pre-emption law and will be struck down if it is ever challenged. The locality has been very cagey about prosecutions to prevent this from happening. So the shotgun, assuming it was legal and legally possessed, could have legally been carried either concealed or openly in most places. I believe taking it to a school would be legally problematic from a federal standpoint.

Handgun: If the shooter was under 21 and not active or retired military then there is no legal way for him to carry a handgun other than on property where he has permission from the owner to be since he is ineligible for a TX handgun license.

 

[AlexanderA]

I've noticed that the calls for further gun control have been more muted this time around. That's because of the weapons used, and because this kid hadn't raised any red flags beforehand. And the police response was as it should have been. There's just nothing that has been proposed, in the way of gun control, that would have made the slightest difference, and even the antis know this. And also, the fortuitous timing of the royal wedding pushed the shooting off the headlines. Maybe people are realizing that we have reached the practical limits of legislative remedies.

 

[GEM]

If I were a dad of a young lad in high school, he is not wearing a stupid trench coat with idiot decorations on it. We don't need law but some common sense.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I've noticed that the calls for further gun control have been more muted this time around. That's because of the weapons used, and because this kid hadn't raised any red flags beforehand. And the police response was as it should have been. There's just nothing that has been proposed, in the way of gun control, that would have made the slightest difference, and even the antis know this. And also, the fortuitous timing of the royal wedding pushed the shooting off the headlines. Maybe people are realizing that we have reached the practical limits of legislative remedies.

Someone here thinks it's a problem with guns not being secure at home. There is plenty of legislation that prohibits having firearms unsecured and available to family members. All that guarantees is the person that doesn't secure their weapons gets prosecuted right along with the person who "borrowed" the firearm to do the shooting. That doesn't stop the shooting, just lets more than one person be prosecuted for the shooting.

So yes, we have more or less hit the wall on the legislation.

Good point.

 

[gulogulo1970]

Thank you

Maybe allowing kids to fight back when it’s justified, punishing based on the incident and not based on zero tolerance would help. Stopping young kids playing violent video games is tougher and I’m not sure how to stop it.

You may be on to something. When I was in school if you were bullied you took it or you fought back. If you fought back and didn't have a violent history you took your meager punishment and went on, usually unbullied from then on.

Now, if you fight the cops are called you are charged. So now there are no fights but now shootings? I think it might be better to allow a little steam to be released than have a volcanic eruption. Anger builds upon itself.

 

[milemaker13]

I just can't believe the stickers didn't work... I mean they just stuck there on the doors and let this maniac go into the school with guns!

Something must be done! How about create some kind of 'safe school zone ' where kids can go to school with out the fear of some butt hole walking in unchallenged and shooting up the place?

I've read some schools that allow faculty to carry have better stickers... something along the lines of " staff members are armed and Will take appropriate action to protect the lives of students and staff"

 

[2ifbyC]

When you vilify a firearm like the AR-15, the antis/media will do anything conceivable to involve that weapon at the crime. As the facts become known, there is no retraction or apology for the error; the visceral impact has been made.

However, It’s still too early to understand the shotgun’s involvement.