should i buy this?

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I'm thinking... and I mean this sincerely...

If you're even contemplating it, then input from folks like me would be useless.

That may sound trite and condescending but it is not meant to be and is simply the most succinct way I can imagine other than "no" to answer the OP question.

Todd.
 
I know lots of folks comment on these types of things having never owned one. I had mine for almost 3 years. I shot it twice (to trips to the range) and while it is a fun range gun, you don't get much else out of it. They're hard to handle which makes them pretty inaccurate without some sort of support. That said...They throw 6-9 foot muzzle blasts and could techincally be considered a concealed handgun. Wait for it though. They've been on sale under 450 a lot. Check out slickguns.com

Edit. I commented too quickly. lol I had a papm92. not one of these even smaller deals. Cant imagine they'd be much different though.
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
If you're even contemplating it, then input from folks like me would be useless.

That may sound trite and condescending but it is not meant to be and is simply the most succinct way I can imagine other than "no" to answer the OP question.

Todd.
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it's the kind of thing which gets banned and triples in value overnight, though ;l.
 
xxjumbojimboxx said:
I know lots of folks comment on these types of things having never owned one. I had mine for almost 3 years. I shot it twice (to trips to the range) and while it is a fun range gun, you don't get much else out of it. They're hard to handle which makes them pretty inaccurate without some sort of support. That said...They throw 6-9 foot muzzle blasts and could techincally be considered a concealed handgun. Wait for it though. They've been on sale under 450 a lot. Check out slickguns.com

Edit. I commented too quickly. lol I had a papm92. not one of these even smaller deals. Cant imagine they'd be much different though.
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the pap seems to be pretty accurate, it's as accurate as my 16in ar15 out to about 75 yards, then it gets iffy to aim without shouldering.
 
@people who say get a stamp for sbr, maybe that's a good idea, but so far i've steered clear of anything requiring approval from the atf to avoid future scrutiny if winds go south. but perhaps spending the $ instead on a silencer for a rifle i have...;l

idk, as for the cx4, i considered it heavily, i have two px4s and i love them, but the cx4 is a few 1004 more.
 
If you want to build and SBR then yes. To leave as a pistol no. If I was only going to have one AK SBR I'd prefer a regular Draco over the mini. Unlikely most of the people opining in this thread I have actually used both along with a number of other AKs. Ill post more about why I'd choose the full size Draco and why I'd pick it over the Pap pistols.
 
Girodin said:
If you want to build and SBR then yes. To leave as a pistol no. If I was only going to have one AK SBR I'd prefer a regular Draco over the mini. Unlikely most of the people opining in this thread I have actually used both along with a number of other AKs. Ill post more about why I'd choose the full size Draco and why I'd pick it over the Pap pistols.
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please do, i bought my two pap m85s because the zatsava was getting reviewed pretty well across the board wherever i was reading about it. why's the draco better? i currently have a gp1975, wasr 10/63, vz 2008, some kind of saiga sporterized .223, and the two paps, in terms of ak-style rifles. i'm itching to throw some more money away into another gun, so all opinions are appreciated, i won't be butthurt if you or anyone else posts here 'that thing sucks, you suck if you buy it' as long as they explain why :D
 
I had a draco and ended up trading it for a regular AK. It was range toy and that was it. Jump through the hoops to put a stock on it and it would of been a reasonably practical, small setup.

A mini-draco? Now thats just silly. But to each their own. Whatever floats your boat.
 
please do, i bought my two pap m85s because the zatsava was getting reviewed pretty well across the board wherever i was reading about it. why's the draco better
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I typed out a much longer and more detailed post and then lost it before it got posted. Please forgive me if this one is more concise. First I'll address why I think a regular draco makes a better SBR than a mini draco. Next I'll address why I personally prefer a Draco to the PAP pistols.


DRACO vs MINI DRACO

There are three many reasons I prefer the full size 11.5" barreled gun to the 7.5" mini. 1) Barrel length, 2) hand guards/gas tube 3) the plastic block that limits the carriers travel.

1) Barrel length. This has two main components velocity loss and flash/blast.

Velocity loss with the 11.5" vs a 16 is negligible IMHO. The 7.5 gives up more. I still think it is a useful gun within reasonable distances and blows a pistol caliber SBR out of the water. The 11.5 is basically all of the usefulness of a 16.5" gun but in a more compact package.

Flash/blast. The mini is a blasty little fire breather. It is literally blinding at night. Whereas the 11.5" will not cause night blindness shooting on a dark night with a simple $9 birdcage hider. The 7.5" with the same hider still caused me night blindness. I haven't had a chance to use a smith vortex on the mini. I'm curious how much of the flash it could kill. Some people suggest the 4 piece flash hiders. I'm not interested in hanging half pound on the muzzle and making it 3-4" longer anyway. You are better off with more barrel at that point IMHO. They do look cool though if that is your thing.

2) Hand guards and gas tubes: This section is greatly abbreviated versus what I wrote before. Long story short there are many many more options for the full size gun. The mini you have the MI hand guard or some one off adaptations of other hand guards. Even if you want to keep the factory hand guard (and changing them might be for form, function, or 922r) I prefer the Draco's to the mini's. There is no ultimak option of the mini. Between the hand guard and gas tube you are limited in the options to mount a RDS. And an SBR AK begs for micro aimpoint IMHO.

3) The little plastic block that limits the carrier: Again long story short, I don't know that it will ever be a problem but I'd just as soon have a standard setup and no such little block. Never know when Murphy will raise his ugly head.

Now why the draco versus the PAP. Again this is a redacted version of the original. Let me start by saying that I am not saying the PAP is a bad gun or that it wont serve someone just fine. For my uses I simply prefer the draco. One pretty cool thing about a Draco is that it may be as close to a real military AK as one can get without spending MUCH MUCH more money. It is basically an AIMS-R carbine without the third hole and without a fixed butt stock tang (they install an under folder rear block into the receiver shell). Now some of that coolness is lost when one has to make it 922R compliant. However I found that new FCG I put in were improvements anyway.

The draco has two main feature that make me prefer it over the PAP and one that I think is nice but not a huge deal. It has a chrome lined bore. It has a square back receiver and it takes standard AK hand guards. Does that mean its light years ahead of the PAP? I don't know that it does but those are three things that to me at least make it preferable if not per se "better."

The main appeal of the PAP for many seems to be the hinged top cover and that it has more of an AK 74 SU look to it. Adding a triangle folder would make for a gun with that look. The PAP also come about at a time when Draco's were largely unavailable.

Not knocking the PAP at all, but if I were going to get one to build into a SBR that would be my primary AK I would go with a full size draco.
 
Mare's Leg

Essentially, this is a semi-auto Mare's Leg (lever action carbine cut down to pistol barrel length) without the elegant profile (but this is a matter for artistic taste).

Great toy, but little practical use outside of a VERY narrow niche of uses.

To me, it appears to be a two-handed weapon without the added accuracy provided by a shoulder stock.

If you want "wow" factor, there are other guns that can provide that. Coonan, S&W X-frame revolvers and the like, but the "wow" is more subtle and the prices are double of this one. But the practicality of those MIGHT be superior.

It is a matter of personal style.

For the "black gun" selection, an AR with uppers in a variety of calibers, 5.56, 300 blackout, 9mm, 7.62, etc would also be more expensive, but can be built piece by piece.

Your choice. If you decide you don't feel happy with it, you can always sell it. Any loss is tuition for your education in the school of hard knocks. Cheap at half the price.

Good luck. (You know you will)

Lost Sheep
 
I have been searching for something that "grabs me" to buy... Maybe these pistols are the ticket...

Let us know is you buy it and like it
 
"I have been searching for something that "grabs me" to buy... Maybe these pistols are the ticket..."
1422407691_vz.58_compact_ls.jpg
While not as 'practical' as an SBR by any means, a super-shorty VZ58 is markedly more compact and handy than any AK (length, width, weight, recoil)

TCB
 
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