should i whip my dog?

[Grouse Hunter]

I just bought my first bird dog! She's a llewellin setter and is about 3 months old and i am debatting whether or not i should whip her. Now by my first bird dog i mean the first one that i paid for and will be responsible for training my dad has owned many dogs through out the years and he has the old school style when it comes to training his dogs. i know right now its definatley to early to start that kind of disipline what i mainly mean is like in the woods if she bumps or flushes a bird should I? Right now im leaning towards yes beecause all of my dads dogs are EXCELLENT! Recently on a trip to wisconsin my dads dog lady fushed a bird and he gave her a good switching and she didnt flush another all week. so if anyone can give me any advice it would be great! thanks.

-Mike

 

[jfanzen]

umm.. instead of whip... "punish" never know some animal activist might be on here lol... um... i have no experience with bird dogs or anything like that.. but a "punishment" wouldnt be soo bad..depending on the age... but when my pitbull used to piss all over we would punish him... takes time.. just voicing my opinion...

 

[rallyhound]

The 2 most powerful stimulus to a dog are food and pain.
used properly together they seem to bring the best results.
One of the best Lab trainers I have ever seen is very quick to punish a dog and gets very good results.
I like to keep a pocket full of treats when training so when they get it right they receive a good reward.
I usually trade a treat for every bird brought back.
I personally think that rather a beat down the best way to punish a dog is grab the nose or collar and give a good squeeze while giving the dirty look eye to eye.
A dog in the field really hates being restrained forcefully.

 

[Powderman]

No.

Think about having a collar or leash put on you, and being beaten when you step out of line.

No.

Dogs are the most faithful creatures on the earth. They will shower you with unconditional affection and love, and all you have to do, is to feed them and give them a place to sleep. Once a dog claims you as part of their "family", you're there forever. And that dog, no matter what breed, will gladly lay down their lives to protect you--even though you might see them shaking with fear at whatever is coming.

Don't repay that devotion and kindness with cruelty and pain. Passive training works, and can work well.

No.

Don't hurt the dog.

 

[islandphish]

I advise against beating a bird dog, especially a setter or pointer. What if the dog learns to associate "bird" with "beating"?

Also, dogs are more fun to be around when they don't flinch each time you raise your hand. How about a shock collar instead? that takes the negative connotation away from the handler. That is what I use.

I'm not saying never hit your dog. Sometimes that is what is needed. Dominance is important. I have taken dogs down to the ground and pinned them a quite a few times and that will make them listen really quick.

The best way to make a pointing dog rock solid is to properly train "whoa" and practice in the field. You shouldn't be taking her out hunting w/o proper training and then beating her for not being perfect.

Another thought, buy a dog that is rock solid to begin with. Like a German Shorthair or English Pointer. I'm glad you have a Lewellin(sp?), you did buy from a line of super pointers right?

Any dog will make a mistake while hunting. So will you, so will your dad. You guys don't take turns kicking each other's ass when you mess up do you?

Good luck with the dog.

 

[Jayb]

The 2 most powerful stimulus to a dog are food and pain.

It must take a REAL MAN to train a dog using pain. Somebody should train you that way.

By the way, I'm not an animal activist until someone starts abusing animals.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

He stated a fact, and he is accurate. He didn't say it was the best way, a good way, or his way to train a dog. He then showed how he used food and restraint of the animal to train his dog. He didn't advocate using pain as a training method. I have found that scolding and food/physical contact (pet the dog) are the two that works bestfor me. I have seen folks make bird dogs appoplectic by pain training - the dogs just sit and shake waiting for the next beating. Sad.

LD

 

[MillCreek]

+1 to what Powderman said. I would never beat or whip a working dog or a pet dog.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

A dog's goal in life is to please its owner. You don't need to beat a dog -- just scold it when it does something wrong, praise and reward it for good actions, and you'll have the dog of your dreams.

On the other hand, many dogs are ruined permanently when those they love and trust turn to beatings.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'm not any sort of professional dog trainer, okay? But from what I've seen of several dogs I've owned, using beatings or switchings in training is generally a sign of incompetence on the part of the trainer.

High energy dogs require a heckuva lot of patience. Ignorance is not a crime, and pups are ignorant.

There are many books about how to train a hunting dog. I strongly suggest going to a library and browse through to find an understandable book. Then go to Amazon.com and buy it and read it and start from there.

You have to get past your own ignorance before you can teach the ignorant pup.

Beating and whipping is cruelty, which in my world is not an option. (I'm not talking about a bad dog that kills the neighbor's chickens. I'm ONLY talking about training a young dog.)

Art

 

[plexreticle]

I could swat my dog with 3 sheets of rolled newspaper and he crys like your killing him. I've nerver understood people that beat the snot out of their dogs or use the collars with hooks.

Beating a dog for not flushing a bird, that's just weird.

 

[Barr]

I have only had one dog so I am far from an expert. Most members of my family have one if not two dogs. None of the dogs were ever "beaten" or excessively punished. If they misbehave it is one thing to give them a firm swat on the butt with the hand or a newspaper. There are shock collars which are very effective as well. My cousin even used this spray which is applied to the dog's tongue which has a bitter apple flavor. The best way to train the dog by far is to use positive reinforcement. Things like treats and attention not only train the dog but helps build the bond between owner and dog.

 

[Jerry Morris]

My dogs would gladly take a beating, just to avoid my special LOOK! Dogs are sensitive and loving critters. When the Top Dog (me) is upset, they know it and try not to do it (whatever) again. Looks and sometimes a growl work much better than beating. On the reverse, praise works very well when success is met. Ya jus gotta be able to talk Dawg!

You want hard to train, try Boxers. They got to have a real reason to do what you want them to do. No "just because" will do with them.

Sounds to me that there are some special people here, who need to bring their learning level up to the dogs level.

Jerry

 

[992]

whipping

Did you get beat at your job when you screwed up?
Maybe that would be the answer for a lot of US to try our best.

992

 

[Art Eatman]

plexreticle, re the collars with hooks: Some breeds, if not well-trained, are so powerful that only that sort of collar will restrain them. Think of, say, a hundred-pound Rottweiler. Without the hooks to cause pain, the dog can drag a person all over the place.

And so we're back to proper training when dogs are young.

There are lots of people who just shouldn't own dogs--or other pets. Just watch Animal Planet TV's show, "Animal Cops" (I think that's the title.) a time or two.

Art

 

[dragongoddess]

beating your dog. NO. If you were to beat your dog in my presence I would have a natural tendency to do the same to you and do so with great vigor.

People who beat dogs need a good beating themselves.

 

[mikeb3185]

i know it was mentioned before but if you hit the dog while training t will associate that with a beating. you said it yourself

Recently on a trip to wisconsin my dads dog lady fushed a bird and he gave her a good switching and she didnt flush another all week

not a bird hunter but at some piont dont you want the dog to flush? allow your dog to enjoy hunting as much as you do

dont be a puppy kicker

 

[birddog]

No way. That hunt should always mean pure joy for the dogs. Start having them associate pain with birds, and you're asking for trouble.

Besides, it's just not necessary. That dog wants to please you, and you use that to your advantage. The dog also has the ability and instincts to be a perfectly good hunter. It's your job to bring those abilities out, and help refine them. You'll never beat a dog into becoming a good bird dog.

Buy a book on training. "Speed Training Your Birddog" is excellent. And you won't find a single chapter on beatings or switches.

 

[Vitamin G]

Reminds me of one of my favorite jokes...

You can train a dog to deal texas hold-em...

Its just a matter of voltage



- Signed,
A cat lover

 

[GSPKurt]

Art hit the nail on the head (no pun intended ). I have 7 bird dogs, and none of them get hit. You give love, you get love. I do use an e-collar, on its lowest setting, to call a dog back when it gets too far out and won't heed the whistle.

Llewellyn setters are awesome dogs, and do not respond well to pain. Be patient, and use repetition and your dog will make you proud.

 

[Hobie]

Whip? No.

 

[auschip]

I found using a rolled newspaper (or magazine) and hitting my own hand to make the noise works better then actually hitting the dog. A firm no followed by the noise stops bad behavior instantly.

 

[kbheiner7]

The only physical violence I use in dog training is flipping the pup on its back and biting its throat (when it misbehaves) - not hard, but enough to stimulte the pups instincts. I am alpha.

Whipping or beating a dog is a terrible thing to do. Yes, a dog might work out of fear - for a while. It's a lot better to tap a dogs trust and loyalty than work on fear and punishment principles.

 

[Cosmoline]

Positive reenforcement ususally works better. Any punishment needs to be done INSTANTLY. If you wait even a few seconds the dog will not understand what the bad behavior is. A shock collar is an option, but like anything else needs to be used sparingly and not out of anger. Whiping is troublesome for the dogs I've trained in particular, since it signals the start of combat. I don't want them cowering when beaten, it would defeat the purpose.

 

[tincat2]

dog beating

the one guy is right; beating any animal(other than a swat with a rolled up soft noisemaker) to gain compliance is no more than a statement of the trainer's incompetence. as for the "old school", i don't think you really want to go there. firm and consistent boundaries are what works-with kids as well as animal companion/helpers. i'm a cat herder by avocation, so i've got a small inkling as to the problems associated with obstreperous, cantankerous, and wily resistance to my ordering of things. infliction of pain negates the possibilty of complete trust and renders the animal unreliable, aside from the moral issue of who gave anyone the right to bring any more pain into the world than there already is.